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2012-18 Model PEVs Survey taken 2016-2019.

1 and 10 Tesla owners defected back to gas.

Most defected car Fiat 500e (84 miles of EPA range) which was leased in California for $59/month.

Much better electric vehicles now with much better charging network.
Thanks. I had seen in another summary of this survey that Tesla had the least reversals back to ICE among EV brands but it didn't have any numbers.
 

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It's an interesting article, to say the least.
Getting to 2050 will be difficult, just given the legacy automobiles on the road. And it'll take time.
And there needs to be a fundamental cultural shift in American cities to aid in reducing automobile travel and emission. Reworking mass transit to be more usable and building housing around transit hubs are part of the solution, and it's not an easy one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Vehicle choice is a function of a free society. Forcing unproven products down the throats of makers and consumers is not the mark of a free society. And particularly forcing something on the basis of mythological projected disasters like globaloney warming, "peak oil" which has come and gone numerous times, propagandizing that carbon is harmful and higher CO2 levels will lead to an Omega Man scenarios, are all preposterous. And at their essence tyrannical. But if you feel good while swallowing this BS, it must be OK.

ICE AGE IMMINENT!!
 

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Well, if you figure out a way to solve global warming, Elon Musk will pay you $100M.
 

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Vehicle choice is a function of a free society. Forcing unproven products down the throats of makers and consumers is not the mark of a free society. And particularly forcing something on the basis of mythological projected disasters like globaloney warming, "peak oil" which has come and gone numerous times, propagandizing that carbon is harmful and higher CO2 levels will lead to an Omega Man scenarios, are all preposterous. And at their essence tyrannical. But if you feel good while swallowing this BS, it must be OK.

ICE AGE IMMINENT!!
Agree that government mandates driving choice is not desirable. But the reality is mandates that push choices that are not practical fail. Ultimately, the market prevails. On the other hand, government mandates can help speed up adoption of practical choices that would otherwise be passed over because of inertia. The fact that pretty much all major automakers are getting on board suggests EVs are more likely the latter but we'll see over time.
 

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I'm so happy to stay with the ICE ice baby.

As interesting as EVs are, I just won't pay more to be inconvenienced by charging issues and rang limitations.

I may change my mind but there is nothing on the horizon that will make me jump out of my "dirty car".
 

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Agree that government mandates driving choice is not desirable. But the reality is mandates that push choices that are not practical fail. Ultimately, the market prevails. On the other hand, government mandates can help speed up adoption of practical choices that would otherwise be passed over because of inertia. The fact that pretty much all major automakers are getting on board suggests EVs are more likely the latter but we'll see over time.
To me, the Gov't mandates don't mean anything if the makers are the ones driving the availability of ICE v EV. If in 2030, 100% of new vehicles produced are EVs then it really doesn't mean a damn thing if gov't mandates 100% by 2035. Personally I just wish gov't just keep quiet about this and let the market handle it, but its all a ploy to take credit for something that is already going to happen whether you mandate it or not....all it does in today's political climate is politicize it, those against the one's mandating are going to hate it and vice versa.
 

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In reality, the government is mandating it with stricter emission and carbon requirements. There is almost no way to meet the future requirements without going EV unless everybody is willing to drive a prius or similar crappy vehicle. They aren't. And Tesla only has so many credits they can sell. So the only way OEMs can meet the requirements is with EVs.
 
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In reality, the government is mandating it with stricter emission and carbon requirements. There is almost no way to meet the future requirements without going EV unless everybody is willing to drive a prius or similar crappy vehicle. They aren't. And Tesla only has so many credits they can sell. So the only way OEMs can meet the requirements is with EVs.
Correct - At this point the flow is going all EV. Got to go with the flow.

That said - it's going to be a long process.
 

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In reality, the government is mandating it with stricter emission and carbon requirements. There is almost no way to meet the future requirements without going EV unless everybody is willing to drive a prius or similar crappy vehicle. They aren't. And Tesla only has so many credits they can sell. So the only way OEMs can meet the requirements is with EVs.
To be fair, emissions mandates have driven a massive reduction in pollution from gas engines. Otherwise, we could all be living in places that look like 1970s Los Angeles:


Markets are very good at optimizing for the near term but are generally not good at optimizing for the long term (esp. if it reduces near-term returns). So governments and regulations do have a role to play in shifting the markets to account for longer-term considerations.
 

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:eek: :unsure: Good Question, but...they do it. Hmmm.......... People's mentality sometimes, smh.
Or "Let's find the dumbest person and interview them!"
 

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To me, the Gov't mandates don't mean anything if the makers are the ones driving the availability of ICE v EV. If in 2030, 100% of new vehicles produced are EVs then it really doesn't mean a damn thing if gov't mandates 100% by 2035. Personally I just wish gov't just keep quiet about this and let the market handle it, but its all a ploy to take credit for something that is already going to happen whether you mandate it or not....all it does in today's political climate is politicize it, those against the one's mandating are going to hate it and vice versa.
You seem to know the future?

It's amazing how people forget this smog situation. It wasn't that long ago either.
So the Government is pushing a solution for a problem that doesn't exist?.............
 

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Vehicle choice is a function of a free society. Forcing unproven products down the throats of makers and consumers is not the mark of a free society. And particularly forcing something on the basis of mythological projected disasters like globaloney warming, "peak oil" which has come and gone numerous times, propagandizing that carbon is harmful and higher CO2 levels will lead to an Omega Man scenarios, are all preposterous. And at their essence tyrannical. But if you feel good while swallowing this BS, it must be OK.

ICE AGE IMMINENT!!
When electric vehicles cost the same as gas vehicles, get the same range, work in -35C with no issues, can recharge in 10 minutes or less and have as many recharge stations as gas, then I would absolutely buy one.

You know I could find a website that says the Earth is flat or any other baloney people want to believe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
When electric vehicles cost the same as gas vehicles, get the same range, work in -35C with no issues, can recharge in 10 minutes or less and have as many recharge stations as gas, then I would absolutely buy one.

You know I could find a website that says the Earth is flat or any other baloney people want to believe.
I have no idea what you're rattling on about.
That WE'RE DOOMED! history included acknowledged experts--you know, like algore and John Fitzgerald Kerry and wuhan labs donator Tony Fauci who changed his mind every 30 minutes depending on which way the wind blew--who were or are taken seriously in their day.
JFK, BTW, does not hide his opinion that despite any efforts we make in the US of A, we will have absolutely no effect on the so called climate change. So what's the rush?

And from my perspective, the earth IS flat. The street I'm looking at is flat, our yard is sort of flat except for some hills, I can see the neighbors across the street without looking up or down. Flat.
 
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So the Government is pushing a solution for a problem that doesn't exist?.............
HUH?
The smog problem in the Los Angeles basin is very real and dates back to the 1940s at least when smog first started being tracked.

It's a very real problem.
The real issue is that parts of this country don't believe the problem exists because there are parts of this country with very low population density, the problem isn't visible to them. There are entire states that have a population smaller than some California cities.

Hell, Canada has a lower population than the state of CA. The difference is that Canada recognizes that there is a problem.
 

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UK buyers are shunning BEV electric cars in April as well, sales were only up +566% BEVs were the worst sales performers, British car sales were up by 3176% on average in April..


UK APRIL 2021 CAR SALES
63611


Hybrid HEVs is what the market wants at the moment Toyota seem to be delivering HEVs in big numbers are growing in Europe. UK HEV sales were up 24468% in April, HEV is what the market want mid-term to 2030, Toyota sales are up 41000% in April in the UK, gasoline only cars are still UK king, diesel cars that use to be the biggest seller are on the way out unless it is MHEV Diesel.

Expensive BEV's are the biggest losers in the UK in April they are for the rich few not the masses. When the ICE powered gets banned in 2030 the BEV will be made sales king by British Government legislators banning the ICE, and British roads will be come emptied of cars, roads will be used by the the rich few that can afford BEV's, long commutes will be out you will be forced to live closer to where you work, under 25's Generation Greta are shunning car ownership at the moment in the UK are getting green washed at school and the leftie "Climate Change, no time to waste" agenda."
 
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I have no idea what you're rattling on about.
That WE'RE DOOMED! history included acknowledged experts--you know, like algore and John Fitzgerald Kerry and wuhan labs donator Tony Fauci who changed his mind every 30 minutes depending on which way the wind blew--who were or are taken seriously in their day.
JFK, BTW, does not hide his opinion that despite any efforts we make in the US of A, we will have absolutely no effect on the so called climate change. So what's the rush?

And from my perspective, the earth IS flat. The street I'm looking at is flat, our yard is sort of flat except for some hills, I can see the neighbors across the street without looking up or down. Flat.
I am prattling on about that any fool can find any crap on the internet supporting their ideas now matter how wrong or stupid they are. Why do you think so many conspiracy lunatics exist?
 

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When electric vehicles cost the same as gas vehicles, get the same range, work in -35C with no issues, can recharge in 10 minutes or less and have as many recharge stations as gas, then I would absolutely buy one.

You know I could find a website that says the Earth is flat or any other baloney people want to believe.
Good ananlygoy, in both cases, above they aren't real; and it might even be easier to make the earth flat than an EV with these attributes: "cost the same as gas vehicles, get the same range, work in -35C with no issues, can recharge in 10 minutes or less and have as many recharge stations as gas"


HUH?
The smog problem in the Los Angeles basin is very real and dates back to the 1940s at least when smog first started being tracked.

It's a very real problem.
The real issue is that parts of this country don't believe the problem exists because there are parts of this country with very low population density, the problem isn't visible to them. There are entire states that have a population smaller than some California cities.

Hell, Canada has a lower population than the state of CA. The difference is that Canada recognizes that there is a problem.
I'm assuming you showed a picture of CA from the 1970's and not today for a reason?
 
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