Cadillac replacing DTS and STS with one vehicle, entry-level model coming

eaton53 · Sep 17, 2007

as opposed to some imaginary replacement that might or might not come and be just as polarizing as the CTS.

Cadillacs are supposed to be flamboyant. If you don't want flamboyant buy a Buick or Saab.

Titanic · Sep 17, 2007

blank disk said:
I like the STS a lot, but I seem to recall that the DTS had twice the sales. That tells me people prefer FWD to RWD. I wonder if going to RWD could be a mistake. They already have the CTS.

Has little to do with it. The DTS is larger, plays to the old-school Cadillac clientele, and has a bigger trunk which is just what livery/fleet customers are looking for. Plus, it's cheaper than most of the STS's out on dealer lots.

And the SLS won't cut it, guys. Cadillac needs to make a more radical departure from the STS than just a stretching and some make-up.

CmicasatheGreat · Sep 17, 2007

Where's the news here? We've only been hearing this for the past year that the STS and DTS were being combined into the XLS and that the BLS would come here as a 3series competitor. The news to me is the confirmation of a vehicle of the XLS to go against the Bentley...

What trips me out is the fact that the STS has sold 13,156 units with absolutely no marketing versus:

the Lexus GS300/430/450h 15,400,
the Acura RL has only sold 4,562 units all year,
the M35/45 has sold 15,033,
Audi A6/S6 7,636

and I am hearing nothing about them being cancelled. Furthermore it would make more since to simply combine the DTS, which is part of the old Caddy Philosophy and U never hear even me praise, with STS and still call it the STS... with a variant named SLS, which could be brought over or at least designed like the one from China (Below)with the new fascia (2008) and the Complete Chinese interior, put a more powerful engine option on the list to be over the NorthStar... like a LS3 (430HP) and give the Vseries a limited LS7 (505HP) run until the Ultra V8s come into play.

The combining of the 2 cars should have been done in the beginning when the new for 2005 STS came out in the first place. The DTS had already been on the market at the time for it full run and no longer fit in with the RWD moves. The DTS has sold 33,368 units this year and is in no way a sales flop . Also it must be noted ONCE AGAIN that the STS barely has any Fleet sales and the DTS is not the Luxury Fleet car leader.

in retrospect this should have been seen on the walls, since the CTS is now as large as the 5series and E-Class. Caddy HAS NOTHING in the 3series/C-class range in N.A. and the CTS only competes with them on pricing. It is now essentially going to be the THIRD piece of competition on the Dealer lots between the STS and DTS.

I'm betting the line up will be by 2010...:

The Entry Level BLS, RWD with a turboed 2.8L, 3.6L and a V8 (Vseries), Coupe and Convertible
The Mid Level CTS, RWD with a 3.6L, V8, Supercharged V8 (Vseries, and Diesel/Hybrid.. Coupe and convertible
The Top Level XLS, RWD with a V8, another V8, Diesel/Hybrid (and possible V12, but I see no point in this as the Ultra V8 is rumored to have a naturally aspirated Top-End of 600HP)
The BRX as a smaller SUV under the SRX
The SRX possibly redesigned on a modified Lambda
The XLR with a V8, another hi-Po V8 and a MCE that actually will address many of the issues people here have expressed about it.
The Escalade with V8, Diesel, and Hybrid.
and perhaps this ULS flagship

Bravada · Sep 17, 2007

eaton53 said:
Cadillacs are supposed to be flamboyant. If you don't want flamboyant buy a Buick or Saab.

This IS flamboyant, Cadillac, and everybody likes it:

When you go flamboyant, you have to know HOW.

CrunkedRL · Sep 17, 2007

Well I would imagine with this announcement the next gen BLS will be sold both in the US and Europe. Right now it's redundant to have both the STS and CTS since their almost the same size and share the exact same rivals ie: 5-Series, E-Class. With that said I'm hoping GM execs are still working to develop the ULS as the Cadillac flagship. This is the only way I believe Cadillac will be taken seriously in the luxury market.

jlt0x · Sep 17, 2007

OK...seems like GM is taking a page out of Chrysler's playbook. Take two under appreciated models...one a sporty sedan (300M), the other a large, well purchased luxury sedan (Concorde)....combine positive attributes to get an in-between vehicle that should appeal to both an older (35-60) and younger (25-35), more affluent crowd...then introduce luxury trim levels that clearly differentiate the vehicle from basic, up-class, to powerful and loaded.

It should work, but the new vehicle must be exciting. And GM must be prepared to lose some long-time customers to gain more new customers that appreciate updated modern designs with additional "helpful" technology.

And like the newer 300, there are people that love it, and those that absolutely hate it. But at the end of the day, both of those groups of people knew something about the product and had been discussing it. That created additional product recognition and advertisement that DCX (at the time) could not buy. This is what Cadillac needs to do.

bhoppes · Sep 17, 2007

I don't think this is a good idea. The DTS should be the flagship and be competing with the 7 series/Lexus LS, and Mercedez S-class. Cadillac should keep the STS and make it a upper 5 series, Lexus GS, and upper Mercedez E-class. The DTS should also have the long wheelbase option. I don't think the CTS has enough luxury options to compete with the 5 series, GS, and E-class. It doesn't even have Bluetooth yet! Don't get me wrong, I love the new CTS, but it just isn't ready to compete (technology wise) with the mid-range luxury cars yet. Maybe when they have a MCR, then they can make the CTS a real midclass competitor. Now we only have to hope the BLS will be what the CTS is now.

sepi · Sep 17, 2007

I don't get it.

Cadillac moves the CTS upscale, the DTS and STS are now stumbling over each other because of the CTS's movement upwards, and now Cadillac will consolidate both and bring in a budget Cadillac?

Are these people STUPID?

The CTS should have remained the budget Cadillac. The DTS should remain the step up, and then the STS could occupy the outrageous price range that Cadillac foolishly thinks it can garner by going up market.

The problem with Cadillac is that they have forgotten how to build a luxurious vehicle.

Attention to detail is significant in this segment and Cadillac (and Lincoln) have ceased paying any attention to the jewel-like aspects of the market. To both Cadillac and Lincoln's credit, they have greatly improved the chassis and engines, but have totally forgotten craftsmanship and precision in their designs.

The CTS is an improvement over the original version, but it is now what it should have been when launched. The original version was nothing more than a 1970's Nova worked over much like the original Seville was. The car was numb looking, awkward from every angle, and was as cheaply built as any car could be on the inside.

The DTS in the remake that gave it arts and scientology facets, remains the best looking Cadillac in decades. It captures the old with the new while not looking awkward. It has a luxury look on the outside but fills the interior with so much fake wood that you'd be embarrassed to show it to your friends.

The STS has never been a good car. It is cheap all around and has no personality on the outside. The car is invisible and is overpriced by a factor of two.

It is time for Cadillac to get it through its head that it needs to bring precision, taste, luxury, and road-worthiness to the market and to stop building cars to budgets like Chevrolets. These cars need to look more expensive than their price tags and it has been decades since Cadillac has managed to pull that off with a straight face.

Until Cadillac gets this message, they might as well just sell what they've got. There is no hope with their current or proposed changes that will make them serious contenders in the luxury market.

KingElvis · Sep 17, 2007

$28,000? For a Cadillac.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye bye Buick. It's been real.

This will of course make a brief splash with Cadillac, but of course, in the long term having a Buick (even an Impala SS is $28G) price will finally drain Cadillac of whatever prestige it once had.

Z28x · Sep 17, 2007

I hope the next STS/DTS comes in 2 wheels bases. Like the 7 series

eaton53 · Sep 17, 2007

Don't get me wrong, I love the new CTS, but it just isn't ready to compete (technology wise) with the mid-range luxury cars yet.

Doesn't it have one of the biggest hard drives available in any car?http://crave.cnet.com/audiophiliac/8301-1_105-9764888-1.html
If you mean by not offering I-Drive like controllers, well good for Cadillac.

uujjj · Sep 17, 2007

GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

Carguy · Sep 17, 2007

uujjj said:
GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

I agree with the sizing matter completely and I think the STS-or-SLS name should be kept for the new STS/DTS replacement. Its the oldest name still used in the Cadillac brand now and they should keep it. If they use the ZETA platform it should be a premium version with duble A arm front suspension and a more premium rear suspension then todays ZETA has. And build it between the 5 and the 7 series cars as mentioned above with V8 only power in NON DI 360HP forms for the base model and DI 400HP form as a CTS like opt useing the new ULTRA V8!

surburban99 · Sep 17, 2007

Any idea when this may happen???

PAULSTS1 · Sep 17, 2007

eaton53 said:
Cadillacs are supposed to be flamboyant. If you don't want flamboyant buy a Buick or Saab.

Bravo Eaton:

That's just what a Cadillac is! Without Glitz, Bling, and Glamor, Cadillac is nothing! That's why people who buy it buy it! It's the whole reason the Escalade sells! It's why I loved Cadillac since the 1967 Eldorado (though I was way too young to drive it

).

Senior management at GM are talking about Ultra this and that, have you seen the F700 Mercedes Concept? It features gasoline engine technology that's more than 10 years ahead of anything GM has talked about.

I sum up to say: GM make what you know how to make, Glamorous Big Cars, use high engine tech for the environment and social conscience, but make them beautiful, fast, and yes flamboyant!

PAULSTS1 · Sep 17, 2007

Bravada said:
This IS flamboyant, Cadillac, and everybody likes it:

When you go flamboyant, you have to know HOW.

Yes, Bravada:

And one of the most valuable Cadillac's ever made! THE FLEETWOOD ELDORADO BROUGHAM! The Standard of the World.

jbartley · Sep 17, 2007

please don't price the entry level any lower the 29k. make it pretty loaded, and it'll top out around 35k.

and if you read carefully, it just says they're, "seriously considering it".

jbartley · Sep 17, 2007

uujjj said:
GM shouldn't try to match its competitors head to head in matching segments. I think their current strategy of placing their cars in between segments is the right approach, since it avoids the inevitably bloody hand to hand combat. The CTS sits between the 3 and 5 series, and the new luxury car should likewise sit between the 5 and 7, about the size of the 7 but priced close to and just above the 5. An entry level car just smaller than the 3 series/G35/A4/C-class also makes sense, though it shouldn't go too low (ie shouldn't go down to the 1 series/A3 level).

right on matey!

Phoenix · Sep 17, 2007

I see no reason why Cadillac and Saab can't both have entry vehicles. And Bravada, does your opinion of A&S Cadillacs really count for all of Europe? Have you seen the new CTS in person?

Bravada · Sep 17, 2007

I see no reason why Cadillac and Saab can't both have entry vehicles.

One day when GM is back on track firing on all cylinders, and both brand will be firmly established in all markets. Right now Saab needs all the investment GM can give in its CORE compact executive model to survive, while Cadillac needs to continue to refine their CORE large cars to establish themselves among the world's finest.

And Bravada, does your opinion of A&S Cadillacs really count for all of Europe? Have you seen the new CTS in person?

1) Yes, excluding Powervette. See the sales numbers for a proof.
2) No, but I don't suppose flawed proportions in photos look any better in person.

Cadillac replacing DTS and STS with one vehicle, entry-level model coming

eaton53

Titanic

CmicasatheGreat

Bravada

CrunkedRL

jlt0x

bhoppes

sepi

KingElvis

Z28x

eaton53

uujjj

Carguy

surburban99

PAULSTS1

PAULSTS1

jbartley

jbartley

Phoenix

Bravada

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