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Hell has frozen over, and pigs now fly...

6K views 54 replies 18 participants last post by  nota 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Commentary: https://www.genesisg70forum.com

“Lexus left enough room for our winner to sneak by—just as the German brands left a similar opportunity for Lexus back in 1989.”

“The G90 is no knock-off Rolex—it’s a proper luxury flagship.”

“The Genesis G90 is not only a convincing S-Class alternative but is also a proper executive luxury sedan.”

“Hop in the cabin, shut the door, and you’re in a peaceful sensory deprivation chamber. You know, like Lexuses used to be. The leather seats are “buttery smooth,” and enormously comfortable both up front and in the cavernous rear passenger area. With much to prove, Genesis appears to have thought out every function of the G90’s interior—with high-quality materials on every surface and easy-to-find controls for everything from the 360-degree camera and radar cruise control to the infotainment system.”

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/gene...vs-genesis-g90-33t-vs-lincoln-continental-30/
 
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#2 · (Edited)
There's no reason to buy this car... and no one is buying it.
G80 has pretty much everything the G90 has in a barely smaller package for a lot less money.

Also, if they're so great then why does a CPO give nothing better than a crappy powertrain warranty?
Apparently they don't have all that much confidence in it.
 
#3 · (Edited)
G80 has pretty much everything the G90 has in a barely smaller package for a lot less money.
If you had an interest in the brand and actually perused the Genesis forums, you'd understand this is not the case. It's not a case of 2005 CTS and STS. The STS was just a bigger CTS. There was legitimately no reason to buy the STS over the CTS. That's why the STS went away.

The CT6 couldn't even beat the Lincoln Continental to make it into the comparison. The Continental finished last. Is there any reason to buy the CT6? To note, I say "yes". I like the CT6.
 
#5 ·
A great car that nobody will buy. It's a Hyundai plain and simple. Nobody aspires to own a "Hyundai" when the finally make it good. Sadly brand image is so incredibly important in this segment.Even if Cadillac or Lincoln brought out a world beating luxury sedan it would likely be a sales flop. I have yet to see either of these cars on our roads, even in trendy Vancouver.

But hey, these things will depreciate quicker than a pink Range Rover so they'll make one heck of a used car buy.
 
#7 ·
Sadly brand image is so incredibly important in this segment.
To this day I think a VW Phaeton 4-seater is the finest car I've ever sat in. And they couldn't give them away.
 
#6 ·
I mean, there is Jaguar too in this segment, interms of nameplates, Genesis Vs. New Lexus LS , and the rest of the players.. Man there is a lot of choices.. I think these cars should all be discounted..

In my opinion, Jaguar and Cadillac offer a totally different approach to the large boss car.. Its more appropriate for American buyers who drive themselves and are not driven by folks..

If I were back home, I can see going to a Lexus/MB/Genesis/A8/750/continental route, here in America, I cannot afford a Chauffer and even if I could it would not look appropriate, having to drive myself, there is only Jaguar and Cadillac.
 
#18 ·
Pretty much. The G90 doesn't have any pricing power, and must derive a large proportion of their buyers directly from Genesis fans. There's a limit to what people will pay for a brand with everything to prove in a segment about status.

Beyond a certain point, you're just pricing yourself out of relevance. That's probably why it stops at $75k.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Not really.

The estimated starting price for the LS 500 is around $75k (maybe a little higher depending on how much safety/driving assist tech Toyota makes standard).

The S Class starts at $90k for its 6 cyl (362 HP) and is bare bones compared to what will be the base for the LS 500.

The 7 Series starts at $83k its 6 cyl (only 320 HP).

Speaking of HP/torque ratings, the LS 500 is rated 416 HP with 442 lb-ft of torque and yet the G90 with 365HP and 376 lb-ft of torque hit 0-60 in the same time (5.3s).

While some of it can be attribute to the LS 500 being a fat pig, that can't be the only reason as the G90 isn't exactly lightweight (240 lbs less).

Lexus claimed a 0-60 time of 4.6s for the RWD LS 500 and no one has been able to come close to that.

The Conti is also rated for more HP and torque than the G90 and the G90 beats it in 0-60 time by 0.2s.




Pretty much. The G90 doesn't have any pricing power, and must derive a large proportion of their buyers directly from Genesis fans. There's a limit to what people will pay for a brand with everything to prove in a segment about status.

Beyond a certain point, you're just pricing yourself out of relevance. That's probably why it stops at $75k.
Which is exactly what Lexus did when they launched the LS400 and still continue to do today to a lesser extent (undercutting BMW and esp. MB).

And one thing you overlook is that many of these so-called Genesis fans are former LS (or other) owners.

It's not like Hyundai had a built-in owner group ready to purchase a $70-75k auto (they had to come from somewhere).

Sounds more and more like the G90 is the car for me...
- current LS 460 owner

I came to the G90 from a Lexus LS, and I can confirm that Genesis has slid nicely into the "old-school" luxury slot that Lexus has abandoned over the past several years in search of "sporty luxury" and younger target buyers. My 2008 LS 600hL was towards the last of the Lexus traditional conservative luxury cars (smooth, quiet, refined, understated elegance), and when I looked at the new LS models, especially those built after the 2013 redesign with the very fugly spindle grill gaping maw, I wasn't impressed.
- former LS 600hL owner
 
#21 · (Edited)
^ Yep, Lexus is alienating their older (and wealthier) clientele with their Predator-faced maw.

There are those who keep claiming - but, Lexus sales are growing.

But they overlook that it's primarily at the lower-end of the market (mainly with the RX, NX and ES and the soon to be CH-R based CUV).

One can have sleek and elegant design (such as below).

 
#30 · (Edited)
Not surprisingly, you know who (Burns-y) is all butt-hurt over the LS 500 losing out to the G90, going as far as to get all negative over the current LS owner daring to say that the G90 may be his next ride.

And then proceeding to post about how bland the interior/dash of the G90 was - but posting an image of the G80's interior (not even posting one of the Equus - whether it be the original or the refresh).

And then when corrected, sticks to his guns and says the dash of the G90 is bland - which is pretty hilarious since it's no more bland than that of the 7 Series (and that's coming from a long-time BMW driver).

The new A8's dash has a more modern (almost too much) aesthetics, but can also be categorized as bland (and I'm a fan of Bauhaus design) or too cold.

As Sal can attest, was a big critic of the dash designs of the Genesis and Equus sedans and of the current G80, but think the G90's dash is perfectly fine (could it use even more of a modern tough for the MCE - sure?), but think the interior designs of the S Class and LS 500 are bit tacky and overdone.

Frankly, there isn't a flagship out there where I'm in love with either the sheetmetal or interior.

And really, this is how ridiculous Burns-y's criticisms have been (been telling him for ages, that his criticisms of the Korean automaker is exactly the same ones that were directed at Toyota/Lexus) - as can be attested by the current and long-time LS owner.

Make fun of the G90 all you want lol, I drove the Lexus LS in the 90s, people made fun of it all the time and I had to explain what it was all the time. I’d rather not go back to having to do that again, I’d rather stay with Lexus, but I’m not going to drive a car I don’t like to drive in order to do that.
 
#31 ·
While the g80 and g90 are competent products. I'm not feeling the desire even at a level of admiration.

Hyundai should have either purchased a flairing luxury brand or created genesis from the get go as a stand alone brand.

To walk into a Hyundai dealership can often be quite shocking...

Maybe it should the tesla dealer experience that makes me state what I feel is best.

While I'm sure genesis are great products...just not there just yet.

Thanks for bringing up this product to admire.
 
#34 ·
From a BMW blog, no less...

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/12/18/bmw-740e-vs-lexus-lx-500-vs-genesis-g90-vs-lincoln-continental/

"Hyundai has been working very hard on giving the Genesis name as much weight and respect as Lexus and it just took it down in a Motor Trend test. While not perfect and only about 8/10ths as nice as a Lexus inside, it’s really impressive. The cabin is filled with rich materials, the build quality is at the top of the class and the G90 drives around with a supple calmness that’s reminiscent of the Stuttgart target everyone’s been aiming at. Plus, it’s the cheapest car in the test by almost $30,000."

8/10th of a Lexus inside, and the "LS 500 looks and feels so special". Not the only time I've read that. It's also been said to give the most expensive "feeling" to the driver. In other words, a feeling that you're truly driving a very expensive car. 8/10th of that in the G90 - which also has a build quality at the "top of the class"...
 
#37 · (Edited by Moderator)
Commentary: https://www.genesisg70forum.com/for...esis-g70-prices-what-you-paying-out-door.html

“Lexus left enough room for our winner to sneak by—just as the German brands left a similar opportunity for Lexus back in 1989.”

“The G90 is no knock-off Rolex—it’s a proper luxury flagship.”

“The Genesis G90 is not only a convincing S-Class alternative but is also a proper executive luxury sedan.”

“Hop in the cabin, shut the door, and you’re in a peaceful sensory deprivation chamber. You know, like Lexuses used to be. The leather seats are “buttery smooth,” and enormously comfortable both up front and in the cavernous rear passenger area. With much to prove, Genesis appears to have thought out every function of the G90’s interior—with high-quality materials on every surface and easy-to-find controls for everything from the 360-degree camera and radar cruise control to the infotainment system.”

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/gene...vs-genesis-g90-33t-vs-lincoln-continental-30/
Oh, i think that the 90 IS the read deal. Bonafide king cruiser. Lotta Lux for the money, but not a cheapie.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Burns-y and his rants/diatribes on the Koreans... lol

But the following is exactly the reason why he is all butt-hurt.

Your excellent review on the Stinger swayed me enough to trade in my '15 RC F and I also transferred my lease on my '17 IS for it! Consolidate two vehicles into one. Some people think I'm nuts including my wife but brand stigma aside, the Stinger is a superb vehicle - styling, performance and versatility. Hard to beat!
I've had my Genesis G90 for 6 months now, and have been very satisfied with the car in every aspect. Hopefully, Genesis showrooms will start popping up so customers don't have to shop at the admittedly down-market Hyundai dealerships! I've enjoyed the valet service a couple of times for my Genesis, so I haven't had to go the Hyundai dealership at all, but a nice standalone showroom will enhance the brand prestige...
However, luckily the midsize G80 has more contemporary styling that's more my tastes, and it rides very well.
I might have to shift over to Hyundai Genesis, esp when the forthcoming 5GS is going to look not vastly different from the forthcoming 2018 JDM Toyota Crown; 5GS is very likely to retain the C-pillar styling.
I am really warming to Genesis' direction...
I will seriously consider Genesis now from what I have seen and read about the G80 and G90. Other luxury brands have gotten so ridiculously overpriced for what you get and the downsized engines are a huge turn off to me, Genesis is looking to be a more attractive option. I think the G80 is one of the better looking sedans in its class after seeing more of them on the road and the G90 has one of the nicer interiors in class.
Nice! Very glad to hear your experience. I've been tempted by the G80 Sport, but ultimately we don't need another sedan in the family. Would absolutely jump on a Genesis crossover if they had one out right now.
I came to the G90 from a Lexus LS, and I can confirm that Genesis has slid nicely into the "old-school" luxury slot that Lexus has abandoned over the past several years in search of "sporty luxury" and younger target buyers. My 2008 LS 600hL was towards the last of the Lexus traditional conservative luxury cars (smooth, quiet, refined, understated elegance), and when I looked at the new LS models, especially those built after the 2013 redesign with the very fugly spindle grill gaping maw, I wasn't impressed.
I had the chance to test drive a Genesis G90 on Tuesday, and I have to agree with Steve that this car has really put the bulls-eye on the Lexus LS and has bested Lexus in many categories. I won't repeat everything Steve has already pointed out regarding the G90, but I pretty much agree with his assessment that this car is likely to become a serious player in the Luxury car field.

I'm still pretty happy with my 2008 LS600hL, but I will be seriously tempted to make the jump to Genesis when the time comes to trade.

All being current or former Lexus owners.

And then, there's this...

The Genesis grill looks like what a Chinese car company would come up with if they were looking at Audi's grill but didn't want to get sued. Put a fake Bentley badge on the hood and how is that moving in the right direction?
Which is simply hilarious considering this...



Not to mention that Lexus has been one of the few auto brands to gave been publicly called out for copying by another (Mercedes).
 
#40 ·
Everybody without some sort of emotional issue with Genesis (or Hyundai), including new Lexus LS owners, knows that Korean luxury has officially arrived - and it isn't going away. You can bet Lexus is very concerned... My prediction is that Genesis will unseat Lexus within a generation and compete directly with Audi and BMW. The only thing Genesis cars will be missing is a soul. There will not be enough people caring about a car's soul moving into the future...
 
#41 · (Edited)
My prediction is that Genesis will unseat Lexus within a generation and compete directly with Audi and BMW.
Not that I disagree, Sal - but would say give it at least 2 gens (it take longer for general perceptions to catch up to reality) and more so Audi than BMW (here's where the FWD vs. RWD again rears its head).

Genesis may in time compete with BMW, but it'll be as a value proposition (much as Lexus is with its RWD sedans today despite nearly 3 decades on the market).


The only thing Genesis cars will be missing is a soul. There will not be enough people caring about a car's soul moving into the future...
Depends on what one means by soul.

Unlike the G80 and G90, think the new G70 will have plenty of it (if by it, one means driving dynamics/fun), but the G70 took certain compromises to be that (and be the sportier option btwn it and the Stinger) - in particular, a more compact package where it doesn't offer more legroom than the competition (which the G80 does).

That additional legroom/space has been a selling point for the G80.

It'll be interesting to see how the G70 fares in sales in comparing to the larger/roomier Stinger; there's a distinct possibility that the G70 will be priced alongside the Stinger (or maybe even a little lower) despite having the lux badge (and the lux dealer network to come).

Like for the K900, Kia may be slotting the Stinger as a tweener in both size and price btwn 2 Genesis offerings.

Heck, give time to Biermann (and the new Genesis chassis development head - also from BMW) to refine the G70 and add performance bits, and we may be seeing the G70 being lauded as a class leader in driving dynamics (out of the G70, Stinger and i30N - based on all the [mostly int'l) reviews, the i30N has gotten the highest praise where it is already seen as being the better driver's car than the venerable GTI).

(Probably will need that lighter next gen platform to get such consideration, not to mention the new powertrains that are being developed.)
 
#50 · (Edited)
Don't need to (not like you would have been able to refute it).

Anyhow, we shall see in a few years when Genesis has its core lineup available - 3 sedans and 3 CUVs which will match up to what Acura will have.

Don't be surprised if Genesis sales end up being similar to (if not greater than) Acura sales and there is no doubt that Genesis will have a higher ATP than Acura.


I remember sitting in G80 (there wasn't G90 ) on car show (in 2015). It was a nice car ..but one major thing it lacks to compete in Europe is engine choice. Basic engine was 3.8 l v6. Too big for European market. I think Genesis plan to enter European market in 2020 (in 3,4 country). I don't expect to be a big selling number but over time..who knows. Most people in Europe who buys luxury class cars don't even know about this mark.
That's why Genesis is entering the Euro market later; presently has no model or power-trains suited for the Euro market (the G80 is too large for the vast majority of private buyers).

The G70, the 2-door coupe, the GV70, the smaller CUV and the dedicated EV (or 2) will be more suited for the Euro market.

Remains to be seen if Genesis offers a diesel engine or bypasses that for hybrids and PHEV variants (as Europe is clamping down on diesels and ICE overall).


It will take 2-3 product cycles and dealer/product/image enhancements for Genesis to be considered a luxury brand. That's fine since the Koreans are quite persistent.
Don't think it'll take that long w/ actual buyers; now, maybe for the general population which is slower to adapt (except for maybe the younger gen who are quick to adapt and aren't particularly brand loyal).



They can afford to be persistent especially since their home market of korea is a protected market...anybody in South Korea who buys a foreign car gets the equivalent of an IRS investigation...tends to keep foreign car makers out of korea..and allow some very high profits for Korean companies...
Huh?

Putting aside that Chevy is the 3rd best selling mainstream brand in Korea, the Germans have done very well for themselves in the SK market.

So much so that the SK market is more lucrative for BMW and MB than the Japanese auto market even tho SK only has a third of the population as Japan.

Case in point, the only market where BMW sold more 5 Series than in Korea was the here, in the US.

And MB sold more of the E Class in Korea than in Germany, Japan or the UK.

Just think about it, Korea buys more of the 5 Series and E Class than does Germany.

Unfortunately, like most everywhere else, Cadillac is a distant 4th when it comes to sales competing against the Germans, but Cadillac sales are growing in Korea.

Aside from models that don't quite match up to the Germans, what has hurt Cadillac is the lack of diesels.

But now that diesels have been falling out of favor, Cadillac has a chance to make further inroads if they speed up on offering hybrid and PHEV variants (which is what the Germans are doing).



The genesis is a nice product but the segment has moved.

Sales will be a small portion of the market segment.

For many the brand cache is what is being purchased...and genesis blew it a few years ago when they labeled the genesis Hyundai. Everybody knows genesis is code for big huyndai.
Doesn't seem to have hurt Genesis sales in comparison to the competition from Audi, Lexus and Jaguar.

The G80/G90 outsells the competition from those makes (so what does it say about them?).



All kidding aside....cuv s are where the markets going and fast....

Add in electrification as a revolutionary force...

No insult to genesis as it's a fine vehicle...I just believe ICE powered entry's are a day late and a dollar short. (Of course I could be wrong)

I believe electrification will sweep this g90 segment hard in the next few short years..
Uhm, which is why most Genesis models will be getting a hybrid and/or PHEV variants and there will be at least 1 (more likely 2) dedicated EV models.



l
For wives across the country....it's a non starter...husbands don't get any bonus points getting the genesis ease over a comparable German or Swedish (Chinese actually but nobody knows) sedan or cuv..

Being a lease nobody really cars..but brand cache matters ...and genesis has a lot of vurmability in social circles...

For some reason it's not seen as highly regarded as Lexus was when they released..

I think the Lexus showroom ..the entire buying and service experience was different...

When I think of Lexus I think of a huge crystal chandelier...and marbel or granite floors, fine leather seating and a beautiful receptionist politely offering me an espresso as I walk into a Lexus showroom...when I think of genesis I think of the dozens of very poor non English speaking immigrants sitting in a Hyundai showroom service corridor..on a stark hard white bench.....and roped off by a red velvet area of the showroom off to the side was a genesis model...

I'm not making this up...it's the real difference..
Hmmmm - and despite all that, the G80 outsells the GS by a greater than 2:1 margin.


BMW is on the ropes..the target moved...or should I say is moving...
Uhm, no.

They are the only brand that can even claim to play on a relatively same playing field as Benz.

Lexus, otoh, is becoming more and more a competitor to Acura than to MB.


There are more and more buyers looking beyond the badge these days, esp. those who are enthusiasts and more knowledgeable about the industry and/or have an appreciation for certain aesthetics.

A little info on how I worked out the deal: Two days ago, I inquired to my local Mercedes dealer on a beautiful dark grey C43 AMG with the premium 4 package ($69,500 MSRP). Waaaay more than I would ever want to pay for a car, but it was a 2017 model and I thought there was a chance the dealer would be itching to move it as end of year is rapidly approaching. I was right. Yesterday, after a test drive, I talked them all the way down to 57k, and a really nice Money factor and got a 12k mile lease for $617 per month. Crazy deal for a $70k car, but I just couldn’t seem to shake the thought of officially passing on the Stinger that I’ve been obsessed with for the last 6 months. So today, before signing the deal on the C43, I called my Kia dealer who has told me they would not budge below MSRP at least 3 other times and told them all about my Mercedes deal and told them it was now or never. I was signing this deal today unless they were willing to go to $50k. They came back with $51k first, then 50.5k about 30 min later. I decided it was close enough and took it.

Did I get the best deal ever? Heck no. Some people will call me crazy for passing up a $70k Mercedes for $12 LESS per month than a $52k Stinger, and they might just be right. But I got the car I’ve been dreaming of for months and am insanely excited about it.
This guy may be the super exception to the rule, but there are other buyers opting for the Stinger over a more mundane C Class or 3/4 Series (nevermind something like the IS).

And there are other buyers who want the Stinger but ended up opting for a loaded Infiniti Q50 Red Sport b/c the lease deals are that much better ($450/month instead of over $600/month).


For those like Sal that love Hyundai and genesis for a long time...the. G90 is a great choice...
As for Sal, you do know that he is a long-time GM/Cadillac guy who (for the lack of a competitive offering from Cadillac) drove a Mercedes and an LS?
 
#46 · (Edited)
I remember sitting in G80 (there wasn't G90 ) on car show (in 2015). It was a nice car ..but one major thing it lacks to compete in Europe is engine choice. Basic engine was 3.8 l v6. Too big for European market. I think Genesis plan to enter European market in 2020 (in 3,4 country). I don't expect to be a big selling number but over time..who knows. Most people in Europe who buys luxury class cars don't even know about this mark.
There were some test drives of G80 in some European magazines and reviews..it seems it isn't quite there compared to Germans. But very close in some aspects.

I remeber when G90 came some people here were critizing other how dare they to compare Genesis (they wouldn't call it Genesis..Hyundai was use often trying to diminish Genesis or whatnot) to Cadillac..and look it now..magazines are doing just that:D:D.
 
#47 ·
The genesis is a nice product but the segment has moved.

Sales will be a small portion of the market segment.

For many the brand cache is what is being purchased...and genesis blew it a few years ago when they labeled the genesis Hyundai. Everybody knows genesis is code for big huyndai.

Not exactly awe inspiring ...

The styling is clean but bland. The service departments blew it as did the dealer showroom experience...

Sitting next to the guy who just bought one of the least expensive cars in each market segment , the Hyundai Accent buyer and along comes someone looking to purchase the genesis.

It was a horrible purchasing experience,

I'm sure Hyundai and genesis split will correct the snafu...but time will be needed as the damage is done...

This reminds me of the phaeton debacle at VW. I would say genesis did a much much better job...at least genesis sales per model are growing.

Having had my Cadillac in for service I got a genesis loaner, it was the better luxury car in my opinion..still it was a Hyundai Genesis so it was always a non starter for my wife,

Relatively Bland and branded along with an economy car...although technically an impressive luxury vehicle....reminded me of the luxury cars of old America....oh so silent and cushy...especially for my tushy.

All kidding aside....cuv s are where the markets going and fast....

Add in electrification as a revolutionary force...

Teslas model S sales are leading the large car luxury segment..

Wait till we see what the luxury cuv jaguar and Volvo do next year..

The following year other traditional luxury car makers join the fray...

No insult to genesis as it's a fine vehicle...I just believe ICE powered entry's are a day late and a dollar short. (Of course I could be wrong)

I believe electrification will sweep this g90 segment hard in the next few short years..

For those like Sal that love Hyundai and genesis for a long time...the. G90 is a great choice...

For wives across the country....it's a non starter...husbands don't get any bonus points getting the genesis lease over a comparable German or Swedish (Chinese actually but nobody knows) sedan or cuv..

Being a lease nobody really cars..but brand cache matters ...and genesis has a lot of vurmability in social circles...

For some reason it's not seen as highly regarded as Lexus was when they released..

I think the Lexus showroom ..the entire buying and service experience was different...

When I think of Lexus I think of a huge crystal chandelier...and marbel or granite floors, fine leather seating and a beautiful receptionist politely offering me an espresso as I walk into a Lexus showroom...when I think of genesis I think of the dozens of very poor non English speaking immigrants sitting in a Hyundai showroom service corridor..on a stark hard white bench.....and roped off by a red velvet area of the showroom off to the side was a genesis model...

I'm not making this up...it's the real difference..

For many....these negatives discussed about the vehicle itself from a styling or brand image...as well as the showroom experience...differences describe the downsides of this fine vehicle...

BMW is on the ropes..the target moved...or should I say is moving...

Genesis can play...but I think it's still a bit player...

Don't shoot the messenger....

As I like the genesis effort...each succeeding model is getting better and better..
 
#49 ·
They can afford to be persistent especially since their home market of korea is a protected market...anybody in South Korea who buys a foreign car gets the equivalent of an IRS investigation...tends to keep foreign car makers out of korea..and allow some very high profits for Korean companies...

So what if it takes a few product cycles of near misses to eventually succeed in the USA...? Those idiots in Washington DC encourage foreign companies to decimate the market segment with unfair trade practices...

Japan did this in the 1970s....and 1980s and even 1990s.......korea joined in for the past decade...and interestingly enough China's automotive revolution inclusive of exports will decimate both the Koreans and the Japanese...

The Chinese are treading lightly on automotive exports to the USA ..because the Koreans and the Japanese will let the cat out of the bag when they start to loose the golden goose....the United States of America...
 
#51 ·
A long winded but bottom line is in the real world women don't want hyundais or genesis luxury car brands.

It's not an insult but a fact.

Finally Hyundai figured that out and is moving genesis brand out of Hyundai dealerships.

Sales are dismal and trying to eventually match Acura sales has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

We will see and I still believe tesla has shown where the luxury market is going.

Jaguars shown us as well and the new i pace will be a stellar vehicle.

To the average american, the genesis is a Korean alternative to the lackluster Infiniti brand.

Take off your clouded Korean biased glasses and look at reality in the marketplace.

I hope genesis does better than in the past.

The genesis loaner I had reminded me a nice Buick at best. Good luxury car that nobody wanted which is why it was in the rental fleet and leasing out at 399 a month

That's about what it was worth..

The new ones are a little better..

Just out of touch where the market is going although I do agree Cadillac latest lineup is crap.

Happy holidays!
 
#53 · (Edited)
A long winded but bottom line is in the real world women don't want hyundais or genesis luxury car brands.
Actually, women make up the majority of Hyundai (and Kia) owners.

The one thing you get right is that women don't (currently) want Genesis products, but that has more to do w/ the Genesis lineup presently comprising of 2 rather large sedans (married women drivers w/ children tend to opt for CUVS/SUVs or if single or childless, smaller sedans).


It's not an insult but a fact.
What's a fact is that is female drivers tend to be more practical than male drivers when it comes to their choice or ride (sure, there are the so-called badge-sniffers, but overall, women tend to be much more practical in their decision to purchase a vehicle).

That's what made the Lexus ES a big seller from the start (back when Lexus didn't have any prestige; when few people had an idea of what Lexus was). When faced w/ the choice of buying an ES or a much more expensive E Class or 5 Series, many opted for the ES (a much more practical purchase).


Finally Hyundai figured that out and is moving genesis brand out of Hyundai dealerships.
Hyundai didn't need to figure anything out; forming the Genesis brand and a separate dealer network was always in the plans.

But they made the right choice in selling the Genesis sedan from Hyundai dealerships from the start.

Aside from not being able to support a new dealer network w/ just one (or 2) sedans (not that the banks, at the time, were lending to build out new auto dealerships), selling the Genesis at Hyundai dealerships enabled Hyundai to sell the Genesis at a lower price (didn't have to price in all the things that a luxury brand and dealer network entails).

As the price of the G80 has climbed (to reflect "free" amenities expected from a luxury brand - such as loaners, etc.) sales of the G80 aren't quite as high as when it was branded a Hyundai Genesis.

We have seen something similar along the lines for the Japanese; for example, as the price of the Lexus LS and GS have climbed, sales started to decline.


Sales are dismal and trying to eventually match Acura sales has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
LOL!!!

Have you seen Acura sales lately?

YTD, Acura has sold 1,051 of the RLX, 31,745 of the TLX and 10,992 of the ILX (the TLX is keeping Acura sedan sales from being a complete embarrassment).

Genesis, meanwhile, has sold 3,992 of the G90 and 14,672 of the G80 at much higher price-points.

The RLX is much closer in price to the G80 than G90 and yet the G80 outsells it by 6 multiples.

The G70, which will be priced comparably to the TLX, will cut into TLX sales (as will the Stinger).

The Genesis sedan at its height sold around 30k, so the G70 should be able to do that or better.

Based on this rather conservative estimation, not infeasible at all for Genesis sedan sales to outsell Acura sedans (and again, that's even with being at a significantly higher price-point).


We will see and I still believe tesla has shown where the luxury market is going.
If Tesla cant get their manufacturing in order (shoddy work and highly inefficient), they are going to be eaten alive by the PHEVs and EVs that the Americans, Germans, Koreans, Brits and Japanese are bringing to the market.

Jaguars shown us as well and the new i pace will be a stellar vehicle.
Gee, thanks for proving my point.


To the average american, the genesis is a Korean alternative to the lackluster Infiniti brand.
Wait, I thought that the average American didn't yet know about the Genesis brand?

So how can they know how it relates to another automaker?

With G80/G90 sales beating GS/LS sales - why wouldn't it be seen as the Korean alternative to the lackluster Lexus brand?

As for lackluster and Infiniti - Infiniti has a good shot to surpass Acura in sales this year (only behind by around 2k in sales) and that's w/ a higher ATP.

So maybe it's Acura that is the lackluster Japanese brand?

Anyhow, none of them would be accurate as Genesis will have RWD crossovers and will not be reliant on cheaper FWD-based Hyundais for sales volume as Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are.


Take off your clouded Korean biased glasses and look at reality in the marketplace.
My lenses are pretty clear.

I've been nothing but realistic in my assessments.

It's not like I'm saying that Genesis will start to outsell the BMW, much less MB (not going to happen).

But Burns-y scoffed when I stated - don't be surprised if the Genesis sedan outsells the GS (or maybe even the G80/G90 compared to the GS/LS) and guess what?

It actually occurred.

We'll see soon enough when it comes to the Genesis and Acura sedan lineups.

With the addition of the G70, Genesis should fairly easily outsell the Infiniti sedans (Q50 and Q70), but once G70 supply gets up and going, like I stated, don't be surprised if Genesis sedan sales match, if not outpace Acura sedan sales.


Just out of touch where the market is going...
So Genesis is the one out of touch, when the G80/G90 outsell the GS/LS?

Not to mention the G80 outselling the Q70 (with Infiniti having long abandoned the flagship segment, but may be coming back).

And is it even worth mentioning Acura w/ how RLX sales are going?

And no, Cadillac's lineup isn't crap - they just got the packaging wrong on the ATS and CTS.

Once Cadillac corrects its sedan lineup and gets its full complement of crossovers, will outsell Acura by a good margin (and that's not counting the Buicks which are Acura competitors).

And even w/ its awkward sedan lineup, Cadillac sells WAY more sedans in the $45k+ price-range than Acura (or for that matter, Lexus or Infiniti).
 
#52 ·
"A long winded but bottom line is in the real world women don't want hyundais or genesis luxury car brands.

It's not an insult but a fact.

Finally Hyundai figured that out and is moving genesis brand out of Hyundai dealerships.
"

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