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  • 08-11-2014, 02:17 AM
    hrcslam

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro_freak View Post
    keep doing what YOU LIKE TO DO Commodore88 - I love your renders just the way they are

    You have an amazing talent.
    Agreed. Somethings are more about the character lines than the finished product. Sure the added detail helps for some folks, but for others it's not. It's about the art. Making that art work in the real world is a different and much harder story. Drawings like the OP's are only for the art as the likeliness of actual production aren't even being considered.
  • 08-11-2014, 01:46 AM
    voyager

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Reminds me of the Lamborghini 'Egoista' concept (single-seater). Looking like a car with stealthy qualities, to avoid getting caught by radar... which is good. I dig.

  • 07-20-2014, 12:51 PM
    MonaroSS

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by commodore88 View Post
    It's a quick pen sketch, the one you did a rendering of took all of a few minutes. The point of quick ideation sketches like these ones are to show variations of graphics, proportions and lines, not a realistic interpretation (that comes later). For a school project I will do dozens of upon dozens of ideation pages before I land on a few designs I deem worthy of further exploration. The ideation is all about getting as many ideas as possible on to paper and onto paper quickly. Adding realistic details like complete wheels and tires comes later. When doing a rendering of the final design it would be appropriate to spend time on parts like that. I actually love doing that part (I have many renderings as proof), but for the ideation stage it's just a waste of time.
    That is all well and good in that context. But my point does not relate to what details you do or do not put in during a session exploring ideas. My comment simply relates to when you deem to publish those ideas as you have here. Yes even the major car companies on release of a new vehicle will often publish such sketches to show the evolution of the original ideas from whence the car's design came. But it's part of a package where the viewer does not have to use their often limited 3 dimensional imagineering skills as the end product is also before them answering their question of 'what does this really look like?'

    This thread has 1,000 views and 20 odd replies. Perhaps 100 of the views are attributable to those twenty coming back to see what others have said. You know what they think, as limited by the detail of their comments. But the other 900 are the ones you need to be thinking about if you want a job creating real products for a marketplace. Those 900 who did not comment are that market place. Many of them would have said to themselves 'wow a talented guy' simply due to your artistry. But many probably really didn't "get" your design as you see it because you are overlaying in your mind's eye what these sketches represent to you. And yes most would be guests of the site, but if excited enough they will sign up just to comment on your work. I know at least a dozen members did so just to express their views to me. But communication is all about getting what is in your mind into the mind of the audience. And when you publish your work, as you have done here, then such communication, and how it's audience may process it, should be a paramount concern.

    In large corporations, in my experience, you don't often get a face to face with the real decision makers most of the time, especially when starting out. Your work goes through intermediaries who may not properly express or even know your thoughts. So your work has to speak for you. And you should never forget who the end recipient is of your communications through your graphics will be. And what their limited design or graphic interpretation skills are. I assure you most of the executives atop the GM RenCen towers have little more skill in that regard than the guy selling hot dogs from a cart on the street below. They, or people like them, may one day be your end audience.

    Another important thing about sketches like yours, which are adored by art and design students the world over, is that such art 'tricks' - as you have used to represent the wheels - can cover up poor designs and lack of novelty. When I put wheels on your design it dropped several points on the desirability and innovative scale simply because now it looks more like so many other design concepts. In the form you presented it, it looked almost like some futuristic hover car from a SciFi movie. But if you think my adding wheels is bad, wait until you meet production engineers. Their heads are not filled with fanciful idealism, but with math and numbers. They rip unrealistic designs apart and put them back together as things that can be made using as many compromising but cheaply available parts as they can incorporate.

    So often we complain how some glamorous show car, which is already way compromised from it's designer's original sketches, gets further diluted when it goes into production as another blandmobile. Well that happens because the designer lost the fight with the production engineers, who always have to backing of the accountants and win 9 times out of 10.

    This here is just my advice to you, which you can take or leave at your choosing, But you have to ask yourself at some point what kind of designer you want to be. The guy who actually gets great and innovative design onto the street, or the guy who complains at cocktail parties about all his great ideas that got ruined by others on the way to the street?

    The best way to defeat the blandness of the production engineers is to do their job for them and make all the production compromises yourself in your own way and in your own time. This allows you to have more control and to preserve the essence of your innovation. But that means taking the blinders off and not buying your own propaganda that such drawing tricks can induce. Get used to as early as possible presenting your designs, even to yourself, as production ready as possible. You will better see where the usable innovation is. And then you can develop it in-line with production requirements. Yes the other designers around you will be using all these tricks to make their designs seem more innovative than yours. But that just means you will have to work harder than them, as all truly successful people must do. But it will pay big dividends in the long run. And one day that could make you the new Harley Earl...



  • 07-20-2014, 07:03 AM
    commodore88

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaroSS View Post
    Yes, they look great as works of art.

    But they are left wanting as a means of letting ordinary people know what the design will actually look like on the road.

    Artists are artists. Designers use art, but a designer has to convey information as well. It's all down to whether one wants to be an artist, in which case you can be as esoteric as you wish, or a designer creating something intended for a marketplace....




    It's a quick pen sketch, the one you did a rendering of took all of a few minutes. The point of quick ideation sketches like these ones are to show variations of graphics, proportions and lines, not a realistic interpretation (that comes later). For a school project I will do dozens of upon dozens of ideation pages before I land on a few designs I deem worthy of further exploration. The ideation is all about getting as many ideas as possible on to paper and onto paper quickly. Adding realistic details like complete wheels and tires comes later. When doing a rendering of the final design it would be appropriate to spend time on parts like that. I actually love doing that part (I have many renderings as proof), but for the ideation stage it's just a waste of time.
  • 07-20-2014, 01:00 AM
    MonaroSS

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro_freak View Post
    keep doing what YOU LIKE TO DO Commodore88 - I love your renders just the way they are

    You have an amazing talent.
    Yes, they look great as works of art.

    But they are left wanting as a means of letting ordinary people know what the design will actually look like on the road.

    Artists are artists. Designers use art, but a designer has to convey information as well. It's all down to whether one wants to be an artist, in which case you can be as esoteric as you wish, or a designer creating something intended for a marketplace....




  • 07-19-2014, 10:32 PM
    camaro_freak

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaroSS View Post
    Mate, great concept and artistry. If I may make a suggestion it would be that abstract wheels only really impress art students and faculty. The rest of us like to see what it would really look like with real wheels. Looks good on real wheels I think...


    keep doing what YOU LIKE TO DO Commodore88 - I love your renders just the way they are

    You have an amazing talent.
  • 07-07-2014, 03:00 AM
    Ruperts Trooper

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by SKH View Post
    The Range Rover Hybrid has the electric motor paired with the ZF 8 Speed transmission. Does anyone know how that additional power gets to the driveline to supplement the engine, or does it It power the car after it disengages the Diesel engine?? Does it hook up with the drive from the engine before it goes into the transmission? So many questions lol. I realize this arrangement probably wouldn't be able to give the Vette drive to the front wheels, but I'm just curious as to how this arrangement works? Okay someone educate me please!
    On the Range Rover hybrid, the motor/generator is placed between the engine and the transmission - it can then generate from the engine on the overrun and from braking - and then supplement the engine power when needed - to avoid compromising off-road ability, the 4wd part of the drive train remains unchanged.

    Lexus RX450h and Volvo hybrids work slightly differently - they're essentially FWD hybrids with a motor/generator between the engine and the FWD transmission - but with an additional motor at the rear to drive the rear axle.

    In the context of a mid-engined Corvette hybrid, it would be possible to mount the motor/generator between engine and transmission and then an electric motor at the front driving the front wheels to supplement the power output. I guess the redundant transmission tunnel could be used for the battery.
  • 07-07-2014, 02:53 AM
    Ruperts Trooper

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    Technically, the current Corvette is already mid-engined as the motor is mounted behind the front wheel centres. Mounting the engine behind the seats would give it more exotic car proportions and incrementally provide more weight in the drive wheels. The latter may be important as the Corvette approaches 700 hp without the aid of AWD.
    That's not what is generally accepted as "mid-engined"

    Sports cars, and indeed almost all cars from the '30s had their engine behind the front-axle - and indeed many 4x4s do to allow good front axle articulation.

    As well as improving rear traction, a mid-mounted engine behind the driver improves handling as the polar moment of inertia is greatly reduced - the main reason why F1 cars changed from front-engined to mid-engined in '58-60.
  • 07-07-2014, 12:26 AM
    sfbreh

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Still impressed.
  • 07-06-2014, 11:19 PM
    camaro_freak

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    love it - the rear end treatment is LIGHT-YEARS more interesting than what was put on the new Stingray - WELL DONE
  • 06-09-2014, 06:30 AM
    Tone

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Technically, the current Corvette is already mid-engined as the motor is mounted behind the front wheel centres. Mounting the engine behind the seats would give it more exotic car proportions and incrementally provide more weight in the drive wheels. The latter may be important as the Corvette approaches 700 hp without the aid of AWD.
  • 06-09-2014, 04:29 AM
    chinamonty

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    nicely done -both of you!
  • 06-08-2014, 02:02 PM
    MonaroSS

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Mate, great concept and artistry. If I may make a suggestion it would be that abstract wheels only really impress art students and faculty. The rest of us like to see what it would really look like with real wheels. Looks good on real wheels I think...


  • 06-08-2014, 11:57 AM
    sfbreh

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsRace View Post
    Corvette should always be Front engine rear drive(although I'm not against the awd idea). Now a mid-engine, AWD, and DC trans Caddy supercar? That's the stuff!
    Both, or rather, all three. C7 should continue as-is for its life normal cycle, with a FR C9 debuting after the typical 6 or so years. C8 should debut roughly halfway into the C7's life cycle as a mid-engined halo Corvette ZR1. It should ALSO pop up in Cadillac's lineup at least once as an R8 competitor, maybe twice if they want to go bananas on a Veyron competitor to try to take the top spot/put a serious image car out there.

    As far as Corvette/Cadillac goes, think: Lamborghini/Audi.
  • 06-08-2014, 10:26 AM
    SKH

    Re: Mid-engined Vette

    Quote Originally Posted by richmond2000 View Post
    I think the HUB DRIVE idea is dead mostly as massive unsprung weight "issues" EX on a car like a vette
    The Range Rover Hybrid has the electric motor paired with the ZF 8 Speed transmission. Does anyone know how that additional power gets to the driveline to supplement the engine, or does it It power the car after it disengages the Diesel engine?? Does it hook up with the drive from the engine before it goes into the transmission? So many questions lol. I realize this arrangement probably wouldn't be able to give the Vette drive to the front wheels, but I'm just curious as to how this arrangement works? Okay someone educate me please!
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