Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum – General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 48

Thread: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

  1. #1
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar PistonsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,807
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on Petroleum Use and CO2 Production by 2030
    December 20th, 2009 | Posted in: Research




    The US National Research Council released findings this week of its study on plugin hybrids and their potential long-term effect on US petroleum consumption and CO2 production.

    For the study, two hypothetical vehicles were analyzed; a PHEV-10 with ten all electric miles like the plugin Prius, and a PHEV-40 like the Chevrolet Volt.

    Several key conclusions were drawn:

    1. Lithium ion batteries costs are high and will likely remain high. The PHEV-10 was estimated to cost $6300 more than a conventional vehicle to build and the PHEV-40 $18,000 more, including a $3300 and a $14,000 battery respectively. Cost as lithium ion battery technology matures was projected to only drop by 1/3 by the year 2020, and more slowly after that.

    2. At gas prices less than $4.00 per gallon, PHEV-40s will not become cost effective until 2040, PHEV-10s may get there before 2030

    3. The fastest market penetration that could be predicted was 40 million cars out of a fleet of 300 million by 2030. It was expected, however, that the rate would actually be closer to 13 million due to the effects of limited charging infrastructure, high cost, and market competition.

    4. PHEVs would have little effect on petroleum consumption before 2030 because there won’t be enough of them in the US fleet. However, a PHEV-10 would only reduce oil consumption by 20% (70 gallons per year) whereas a PHEV-40 would reduce it by 55% (200 gallons per year), and therefore would have a much greater impact on petroleum use if it became the dominant market choice. Forty million PHEV10s would reduce US petroleum use by0.2 million barrels of oil per day. Forty million PHEV40s would reduce US petroleum use by 0.55 million barrels of oil per day. Currently, the light duty US fleet uses 9 million barrels of oil per day.

    5. Nighttime charging will not add any additional stress to the US electric grid, but $1000 per car smart chargers will be necessary to avoid taxing the grid during peak hours

    6. CO2 emissions would be reduced by using PHEV10s versus traditional gas cars, but hybrids would produce even less when taking powerplants into account. PHEV40s are more effective than PHEV10s at reducing CO2 emissions. CO2 reduction benefits will be small until the grid becomes “decarbonized” and renewable and nuclear sources become more contributory after 2030.

    7. A portfolio approach of increased efficiency gas cars, biofuels, HEVs, and PHEVs is recommended. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are considered the only way to eliminate gasoline use altogether.

    Original Source: (USNRC)

    Source: GM-Volt.com
    http://gm-volt.com/2009/12/20/study-...ction-by-2030/

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Premium Member Neanderthal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    A sunny cave in Transylvania
    Posts
    34,554
    Thanks
    8,771
    Thanked 7,121 Times in 4,368 Posts
    My Ride
    17 Soul&/01 PT LTD/15 JD130

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    I would place little faith in this globaloney warming puppet organization, no matter their findings one way or another.
    2017 Soul &, Titanium

    The freedom of Speech may be taken away, and, dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to the Slaughter. George Washington

    Hidden Content

  4. #3
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 05ChevySilveradoSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville Arkansas
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    I tell you what the media sure knows how to really ruin companies goal or hopes dont they.

    Hot damn it was first we want hybrids, well GM gave them hybrids then it was electric vehicles, and GM gave them that as well. I tell ya i just dont know about america these days.

    Its damned if you do and damned if you dont, i must say so myself.
    My Vehicles
    2004 Chevrolet Silverado SS--SOLD
    2005 Pontiac GTO--4,647 Miles--SOLD
    My Wifes--2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L 2WD LTZ--39,174Miles
    2002 Chevrolet Silverado Ext Cab LT 5.3L Z71 Off Road--341,514 Miles
    2008 Chevrolet Silverado Reg Cab 5.3L 2WD LT--49,394 Miles

    Need a new or used Chevrolet? Well look no further. . . Hidden Content

  5. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar PistonsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,807
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    I would place little faith in this globaloney warming puppet organization, no matter their findings one way or another.
    Regardless of your position on Global Warming, an aggressive CO2 reduction strategy has benefits beyond the stated purpose.

    Cleaner air, clearer skies, and energy independence and security go along with it. But, mostly energy independence and security. For this reason, many let go of their opposition to the global warming concept because they believe that it is the right thing to do anyway.

    All that aside...

    One of the reasons I posted this is to also show the continued strong interest from the US Government in plug-in hybrids (esp. EREV). You'll find that many US-funded research on future CO2 reduction focuses on the Volt technology. They are putting their bets on the EREV+biofuel (together) and fuel cells. In this specific example, you see those two technologies being considered our best bet at meeting future (proposed) CO2 standards.

    There are many people that have a very cynical attitude towards the Chevy Volt and the introduction of EREV technology. It is more significant than some people realize.

  7. #5
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Further on up the road..
    Posts
    6,455
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by 05ChevySilveradoSS View Post
    I tell you what the media sure knows how to really ruin companies goal or hopes dont they.

    Hot damn it was first we want hybrids, well GM gave them hybrids then it was electric vehicles, and GM gave them that as well. I tell ya i just dont know about america these days.

    Its damned if you do and damned if you dont, i must say so myself.
    I've been saying this for at least 2 yrs now. It's not about killing company goals it's about facing reality. The reality is that plugins are far too expensive to be very popular and the costs are not going to come down easily. Since they won't be that popular they won't have much of effect on anything environmental. They will be technological curiosities for at least 10 if not 20 years.

    But...they have to be built and put on the roads simply because at sometime in the next 50 yrs electricity-driven vehicles will be very common. But during these next 10-20 yrs :
    • the technologies have to be tested on the roads;
    • standards have to be developed;
    • infrastructure has to be developed;
    • prices have to come down or incomes have to increase dramatically


    None of the EREVs, EVs, PHVs are going to do much for any of the companies building them for some time to come. Making money? Not likely. In the meanwhile ICEs and hybrids will continue to dominant and make money for the next decade or two.

  8. #6
    4.6 Liter Northstar V8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,943
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Of course it won't have an impact, electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids just trade oil for coal and natural gas.

  9. #7
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar PistonsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,807
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by PhishPhood View Post
    I've been saying this for at least 2 yrs now. It's not about killing company goals it's about facing reality. The reality is that plugins are far too expensive to be very popular and the costs are not going to come down easily. Since they won't be that popular they won't have much of effect on anything environmental. They will be technological curiosities for at least 10 if not 20 years.

    But...they have to be built and put on the roads simply because at sometime in the next 50 yrs electricity-driven vehicles will be very common. But during these next 10-20 yrs :
    • the technologies have to be tested on the roads;
    • standards have to be developed;
    • infrastructure has to be developed;
    • prices have to come down or incomes have to increase dramatically


    None of the EREVs, EVs, PHVs are going to do much for any of the companies building them for some time to come. Making money? Not likely. In the meanwhile ICEs and hybrids will continue to dominant and make money for the next decade or two.
    Mostly accurate. However, some very powerful people would disagree with your opinion on the timing of this rollout.

    And FYI, there are already timetables in place for all four milestones mentioned.

  10. #8
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8 PAULSTS1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Belmont Hgts., CA
    Posts
    4,883
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    The study did not show the impact of “Smart Grid Legislation” in determining the actualized costs of much greater Electric Utility Fees already anticipated by the Developed Countries based on United Nations pending treaties to aid the Underdeveloped Countries. This is another “Robin Hood” plan to make a Country such as the USA, pay for the have not’s, with a surcharge of 3x to 4x the current baseline rate, rendering the Hybrids of less value than now expected.

    http://http://www.oe.energy.gov/smartgrid.htm

    Last edited by PAULSTS1; 12-20-2009 at 08:17 PM.

  11. #9
    4.6 Liter Northstar V8 Mustapha Mond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Vancouver, British Columbia Canada
    Posts
    1,858
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    My Ride
    Fiat 500; Piper Seneca

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    If everything we do from now on has a small positive impact then we'll start to clean up our world. It didn't get polluted overnight it won't become clean overnight, but will happen if we are determined.
    -Elliott

  12. #10
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    335
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    I could have told you this without some VERY expensive study(probably funded by taxpayers). Even after the youngest viewer on this website is dead and gone, petroleum products are still going to power most of our transportation. And by the way, as we speak, the WSJ reported that European Oil Companies who have won rights to Iraq oil fields, say their could be 12 times as much oil in Iraq as was first thought. Plus, Brazil is about to become the largest producer of oil in Central and South America with very large oil fields off the coast line. We are not "running out of oil".

  13. #11
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Tre-Tre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Great White North Canada
    Posts
    2,902
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Is this suprising to anyone here. If you think Hybrids could save the world your kidding yourself. I view Hybrids as two things guilt trips and the greater fool theory as to who will pay more money for less car. They'd rather get all over GM for Hummer destroying earth but I guarantee you with the sales volume they probably had little effect on the big picture of oil consumption. What a crock.

  14. #12
    Chevrolet VOLT eaton53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    10,711
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 3,370 Times in 1,836 Posts
    My Ride
    1989 Merkur XR4Ti

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    1. Lithium ion batteries costs are high and will likely remain high.
    Are they assuming that this is it for battery tech and there is no other solution?
    Baaaaaaad assumption....

    You gotta start somewhere....
    1989 Merkur XR4Ti
    2014 Carlisle Ford Nationals - Merkur Club of America Preservation Award


    2015 Cadillac XTS Platinum... Princess Buttercup IV
    2015 Chevy Cruze Diesel... Many thanks to VW for making this deal possible.

  15. #13
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) johnstarnes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tampa
    Posts
    13,337
    Thanks
    5,697
    Thanked 848 Times in 469 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    Are they assuming that this is it for battery tech and there is no other solution?
    Baaaaaaad assumption....

    You gotta start somewhere....
    Excellent point. There are some very exciting breakthroughs in battery and supercapacitor technology going on, such as the link I recently posted about the battery based on paper treated with carbon nanotubes and tiny amounts of nanosilver.....huge capacity for storage of power, rapid discharge and recharge times, light weight, small size, and no exotic toxic metals like lithium. Technology is never static, which is why I have long found following the various sciences fascinating and exciting and fun. Who could have imagined an iPhone when I graduated from highschool in 1971!!
    "The only normal people are the ones you don't know well". unknown


    Hidden Content

    Hidden Content

    Hidden Content

  16. #14
    4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    2,979
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by 05ChevySilveradoSS View Post
    Hot damn it was first we want hybrids, well GM gave them hybrids then it was electric vehicles, and GM gave them that as well. I tell ya i just dont know about america these days.
    I think the title of the article doesn't give a fair assessment. Hybrids significantly reduce both fuel consumption and CO2 levels. But because there are over 300 million gasoline-powered vehicles on the road already, it will take a fair bit of time for hybrids and electric vehicles to truly impact fuel consumption.

  17. #15
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 05ChevySilveradoSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville Arkansas
    Posts
    2,149
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Study Finds Plugin Hybrids Will Have Only Small Impact on CO2 and Oil Consumption

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    Are they assuming that this is it for battery tech and there is no other solution?
    Baaaaaaad assumption....

    You gotta start somewhere....
    Say no more, say no more. Exactly!
    My Vehicles
    2004 Chevrolet Silverado SS--SOLD
    2005 Pontiac GTO--4,647 Miles--SOLD
    My Wifes--2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L 2WD LTZ--39,174Miles
    2002 Chevrolet Silverado Ext Cab LT 5.3L Z71 Off Road--341,514 Miles
    2008 Chevrolet Silverado Reg Cab 5.3L 2WD LT--49,394 Miles

    Need a new or used Chevrolet? Well look no further. . . Hidden Content

  18. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2