GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

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Thread: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

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    GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    How many times was it predicted that Honda would beat GM to the punch without so much vaporware talk and "concept" cars? This makes me sad. Tell us here why we should have faith that this won't be heralded as Honda's win, like Toyota's Prius.

    New York Times also has an article: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2007...l-cell-fcx/?hp

    Honda set to release hydrogen fuel cell car – and home fuelling station
    November 22, 2007
    http://www.gizmag.com/honda-fuel-cell-fcx/8394/

    It seems Honda is gearing up to be the one of the first major companies to bring a hydrogen fuel cell car to market – their FCX Clarity is set to go to production in 2008, in a move they’re hoping will break the catch-22 dilemma stopping motor companies from producing cars because there’s no hydrogen distribution, and stopping fuel companies from distributing hydrogen because there’s no cars that use it. To nurse consumers through the infancy of the hydrogen economy, Honda’s also attempting to decentralize the production of hydrogen through their Home Energy Station unit, which sits outside your house and reforms natural gas to produce enough Hydrogen to power both the car and the home’s energy needs at around 50% of the normal cost and with a 30% emissions reduction.

    Honda FCX Clarity

    Honda recently announced it will begin limited retail marketing of its FCX Clarity, a 100-kilowatt (150 hp) hydrogen fuel-cell powered compact car, in the middle of 2008. Initially it will be available only in California, but Honda clearly has plans to mass-market the FCX in the medium term if it proves viable.

    The FCX Clarity is a zero-emissions, hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicle based on the entirely-new Honda V Flow fuel cell platform, and powered by a compact, efficient and powerful fuel cell stack. Featuring impressive improvements to driving range, power, weight and efficiency, the FCX Clarity is Honda’s real-world fuel cell flagship.

    Last edited by importedtuna; 11-26-2007 at 10:13 AM.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    GM beat Honda to the punch by about 8 years with the EV1 - and EV1 was a nation-wide release -this is only a 3 county release .

    it is a good PR for Honda, but it is no different from the Equinox Fuel Cell release, or Ford HyDrive Edge release .. Honda simply changed the "naming and terms" - instead of "participating in a study" they are "leasing" - the end is the same - after 3 years the cars will be pulled off the market and maybe then finally a true hydrogen production car will be released.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    isnt natural gas imported just like oil? whats the point of that? instead of putting oil in your car, youre putting it into a generator and then your car. how do you get hold of the natural gas?

    im not bashing a car, its a great step forward, im just curious what the overall cost wil be and how much emissions youre actually reducing, along with dependence on foreign oil. if the generator could run on e85 or biodeisel (or even veggie oil), that would be even more significant. although a 62 mpg rating i impressive.

    and this thing has lithium ion batteries. hey toyota, i thought they werent useable in cars?

    EDIT: the power station is pretty cool (finished reading it). the only problem i see is that not every home has a natural gas setup.
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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    There is one major flaw to Honda's setup: What about apartment complex dwellers. They don't have access to a natural gas line to attach this hydrogen setup. As stated before, this is no different then anything GM and Ford are doing. I have seen other articles stating as much, so it might be a little journalistic license on Gizmag's part in order to grab an audience.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by jkennedy293 View Post
    There is one major flaw to Honda's setup: What about apartment complex dwellers. They don't have access to a natural gas line to attach this hydrogen setup.
    This is not a major flaw. Calling it a major flaw is like saying the new Malibu has a major flaw: you cannot put a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the trunk. Or the standard cab Silverado has a major flaw: you cannot put a child's seat in it. Just because a particular vehicle does not meet your needs does not mean it is flawed.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    The quotes above say Honda will have it for retail marketing, but its not clear what that means. Will customers be able to go buy them? Or is it for very selected markets and customers?

    FWIW, GM already has the fuel cell Equinox out in consumer testing, though they are not "for sale." Seems over the top and somewhat libelous to call that "vaporware."

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    This is all fine and good, but I just don't see the beef. GM could probably be leasing a few Sequels right now it they wanted too. So you can lease an FCX in a couple of places and if you want, spend a grundle to have a large refueling station in your yard, if you have a yard. We want to go to the corner station and fill up with whatever it is that powers our vehicles. If it were there there would be GenV fuel cells in the Equinox and a lot more the 100 of them driving around. Instead GM is pouring it's marbles into the eflex that you can plug in or fill at the corner station and get in all 50 states.
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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Again, no on sale date (or pricing) for the home fueling station.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by pinyon View Post
    So you can lease an FCX in a couple of places and if you want, spend a grundle to have a large refueling station in your yard, if you have a yard.


    Fill 'er up — at home and with hydrogen

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by pinyon View Post
    This is all fine and good, but I just don't see the beef. GM could probably be leasing a few Sequels right now it they wanted too.
    They could also sell flying cars, I imagine, but they don't. I think the first publically available Hydrogen car is a pretty big deal. It may only be available in several locations and may not be the end to the use of fossil fuels... but it's still cool technology that is the only soon to be publically available from Honda.

    I also agree that Honda hasn't gone over the top babbling about this... it's normal that they're hyping it, because the vehicles are coming out next year. That's not the same thing as hyping a car that no one anywhere can buy now or even next year. I love the Volt and think it's a great technology... but if I want the latest and greatest mode of transportation (and live in the right state!) it'll be a Honda.
    Last edited by paul8488; 11-26-2007 at 10:55 AM.
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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by jkennedy293 View Post
    There is one major flaw to Honda's setup: What about apartment complex dwellers. They don't have access to a natural gas line to attach this hydrogen setup. As stated before, this is no different then anything GM and Ford are doing. I have seen other articles stating as much, so it might be a little journalistic license on Gizmag's part in order to grab an audience.
    Apparently Honda's refueling station can significantly reduce the costs of heating, hot water and other appliaces that require electricity. If that's the case apartment building owners could very well use an i ndustrial version to save money. Assmuming if Honda's partner could release one.

    This is a finished product, that's the beef. GM's fuel cells maybe almost done but not completely. I could GM using honda's refueling station as way to get their product out quicker.
    Last edited by BGH; 11-26-2007 at 10:59 AM.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Different strategies for GM and Honda.
    GM talks the talk. Honda walks the walk.
    GM promised the public a Hydrogen car by 2010 for sale to fleets. Now it's all EFlex this and EFlex that by 2010. What happened to the Hydrogen car?

    We all know the problem with the Hydrogen car is that there is no infrastructure to support it.

    So what if Clarity is limited to Los Angeles County? That's a very large population with the most high profile customers and best PR one could possibly get.

    Fact of the matter is.... Honda beat GM by 2 years to get a Hydrogen car on the market.
    It's best GM quit playing the PR game. They're simply not good at it.

    I'd much rather they concentrate on the engineering and simply just get it done.
    Last edited by mgescuro; 11-26-2007 at 11:08 AM.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    I didn't know were to put this piece of info so people would see it. But both the Malibu and the CTS are reported to have made Car and Driver's 10 best list.


    Honda Accord Coupe and Sedan
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    http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...sage_id=724513

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post
    Different strategies for GM and Honda.
    GM talks the talk. Honda walks the walk.
    GM promised the public a Hydrogen car by 2010 for sale to fleets. Now it's all EFlex this and EFlex that by 2010. What happened to the Hydrogen car?

    We all know the problem with the Hydrogen car is that there is no infrastructure to support it.

    So what if Clarity is limited to Los Angeles County? That's a very large population with the most high profile customers and best PR one could possibly get.

    Fact of the matter is.... Honda beat GM by 2 years to get a Hydrogen car on the market.
    It's best GM playing the PR game. They're simply not good at it. I'd much rather they concentrate on the engineering and simply just get it done.
    It does look like Honda has a slight lead in the fuel cell car business, but I'm not ready to call the game before it's played in 2010. We'll have to wait and see who will be making the biggest impact on foreign oil imports by then.

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    Re: GM's PR Promises vs. Honda's Beef

    Quote Originally Posted by minnfang View Post
    It does look like Honda has a slight lead in the fuel cell car business, but I'm not ready to call the game before it's played in 2010. We'll have to wait and see who will be making the biggest impact on foreign oil imports by then.
    Honda has 2 years on GM -- based on GM's own public announcement of a hydrogen car.
    I don't expect Clarity to be cheap. I don't expect Clarity to sell more than 2,000 annually the first 2 years.

    Simply put, Honda has 2 years, and not just on GM, but on everyone else too.

    Remember, Honda also has no real "beef" with CAFE either. They're considering it an "engineering challenge."

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