GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

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Thread: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    GM wants New York to lead in fuel cell cars
    Associated Press - April 17, 2009 5:44 PM ET

    TONAWANDA, N.Y. (AP) - General Motors envisions a "hydrogen highway" across New York that would allow fuel-cell cars now under development to drive from one end of the state to the other.

    GM officials are at the Tonawanda engine plant near Buffalo with two hydrogen-powered Chevrolet Equinox vehicles to demonstrate the emerging technology.

    The automaker has 100 test vehicles on the road. The cars use no gasoline and produce no harmful emissions.

    GM is working with state energy officials to develop hydrogen filling stations across the state, in hopes they'll be in place before widespread production of fuel-cell vehicles begins in the next five or six years.

    SOURCE


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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    I saw one of those in DC. No one turned an eye as it drove past.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Ok then the first thing they need to do is get a Hydrogen station at every 2-3 Thruway rest areas if they want this to work. And not just any Thruway rest area either.... they have to pick busy ones like Clarence, Ontario, Port Byron, Weedsport, Little Falls, etc...

    Plus GM needs to use a different car to get everybody's attention other than an Equinox with a Torrent's headlights.

    Here's an idea GM, why didn't you put it in the H3 before you decided to be lazy and not try to save that asset????

    A Hummer with a Hydrogen powerplant would have done a helluva lot more for the PR stunt than that bland POS.
    What is happening to the GM that grew up with for these many decades? If I could I would institute a hostile take over and kick the entire board and executives out and fill the positions with creative minds under the age of 35.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacBixler View Post
    A Hummer with a Hydrogen powerplant would have done a helluva lot more for the PR stunt than that bland POS.
    Not really.. the moment people in the US see the world Hummer they can't let their bias go, even if it farted rainbows paid you to run it and allowed even the nerdiest of nerds to pick up the hottest supermodels.
    Talk is cheap, sometimes it is on sale.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by PontiacBixler View Post
    Ok then the first thing they need to do is get a Hydrogen station at every 2-3 Thruway rest areas if they want this to work. And not just any Thruway rest area either.... they have to pick busy ones like Clarence, Ontario, Port Byron, Weedsport, Little Falls, etc...

    Plus GM needs to use a different car to get everybody's attention other than an Equinox with a Torrent's headlights.

    Here's an idea GM, why didn't you put it in the H3 before you decided to be lazy and not try to save that asset????

    A Hummer with a Hydrogen powerplant would have done a helluva lot more for the PR stunt than that bland POS.
    Well looks doesn't mean much. GM is working on the next generation fuel cell that is much small, lighter and more efficient than the one in the Equinox. Chances of it being able to appear on cars is more probable.

    The chance to mass market it will also be probable, as the current version is. It is built up to mass market spec, which means it can be built in a plant at any time.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by jbernie View Post
    Not really.. the moment people in the US see the world Hummer they can't let their bias go, even if it farted rainbows paid you to run it and allowed even the nerdiest of nerds to pick up the hottest supermodels.
    I have to disagree with your opinion on peoples' lack of possible change of thought patterns. If GM would have made an H4 or a modified looking H3 and plastered it with their foolish stickers, people would take notice and talk about it with their friends and families.

    When I was looking at leasing an H3, all of my family couldn't help but talk down about how bad it was on gas. Then when we bought our Grand Cherokee all they had was praise for our "wise choice". When I told them that my Jeep got the exact same mileage as an H3 they were dumb founded and now not a single one will talk bad about an H3.
    What is happening to the GM that grew up with for these many decades? If I could I would institute a hostile take over and kick the entire board and executives out and fill the positions with creative minds under the age of 35.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Until someone explains to me how we will produce hydrogen in large quantities at reasonable prices, I will be skeptical of any possible promises about hydrogen.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Does this mean they've managed to make a fuel cell that doesn't cost as much to produce as a reasonably sized house?

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by stormwatcher View Post
    Until someone explains to me how we will produce hydrogen in large quantities at reasonable prices, I will be skeptical of any possible promises about hydrogen.
    The current generation would cost around $40-50k to mass produce. The upcoming generation should be no more expensive than an ICE. Its not an expensive technology and a blast to know what it can do.

    Just driving it in the snow is a whole new world. You hear nothing but the crackling of the snow between the threads of the tires.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by fp115 View Post
    The current generation would cost around $40-50k to mass produce. The upcoming generation should be no more expensive than an ICE. Its not an expensive technology and a blast to know what it can do.
    I'm not worried about the vehicle, I'm worried about the fuel. Where will the hydrogen come from?

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by stormwatcher View Post
    Until someone explains to me how we will produce hydrogen in large quantities at reasonable prices, I will be skeptical of any possible promises about hydrogen.
    Let’s look at this objectively. Please correct me if you think I am wrong:

    One could drive twice as far per KWh in a plug-in electric vehicle using a Li-Ion battery.

    The nationwide infrastructure needed to refuel a hydrogen vehicle does not exist today (by a long stretch) and will cost Billions to implement.

    Best estimates are that it will take 10-15 years to build out the needed hydrogen infrastructure and will cost Billions.

    Said infrastructure would, at least initially, only be needed to refuel vehicles.

    If we wait for the hydrogen infrastructure - we are likely to continue to buy oil from the Middle East for the next 10 - 15 years - plus however long it takes the public to adopt hydrogen vehicles.

    Now - let’s contrast that with plug-in electric vehicles such as the Volt that is scheduled to be out next year.

    Plug-in electric vehicles are twice as efficient as hydrogen fuel cell cars (fuel cells are currently 50% efficient).

    100% of the needed infrastructure to recharge plug-in electric vehicles - at night during off peak times - is deployed to virtually every home in America at no additional cost to deploy it.

    The power grid, unlike a hydrogen grid, is currently vital to the entire country and is being used for thousands of other useful purposes.

    Both vehicles rely on batteries to supply high currents to their motors - usually twice as many in the plug-in vehicle, but still - both are dependent to some degree on battery technology.

    78% of people in America could consume zero gasoline to commute to and from work with even the first generation Volt - plug-in electric vehicle.

    Now - why are we still pretending that hydrogen fuel cells make sense for passenger vehicles? Could it simply be a diversion from a real - near term - solution to freeing ourselves from foreign oil? Can ANYONE really make the case as to why hydrogen fuel cells make sense in a vehicle? I'm not asking for corner cases like when you drive across country twice a year to visit Grandma (remember 78% could use zero gas to commute to and from work using a Volt and can still drive across country using a little gasoline or E85). Also remember - when the battery drops below a certain level you will NOT be stranded - the ICE turns on and burns widely available (no cost to deploy infrastructure) gasoline to get you home where you could recharge. Also, even in California where electricity is about twice the national average - it only cost $0.80 per gallon (assumes 20 MPG) or $1.60 to drive 40 miles.

    Go ahead - make the case for hydrogen fuel cell passenger vehicles and don't forget - if you get the energy from the sun to produce hydrogen - you could use the SAME energy to drive twice as far in a plug-in electric vehicle.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by stormwatcher View Post
    I'm not worried about the vehicle, I'm worried about the fuel. Where will the hydrogen come from?


    We use electrolysis to produce it at only twice the energy cost of just using the electricity to power the car in the first place...

    Or we use fossil fuels to produce it making almost as much CO2 as just burning them in an engine...


    There's simply no way to make hydrogen economically at the moment.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by stormwatcher View Post
    I'm not worried about the vehicle, I'm worried about the fuel. Where will the hydrogen come from?
    I think that is the question GM wants to be answered. So long they can supply the vehicles. It would make sense to provide the energy source.

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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    Quote Originally Posted by dracleath View Post
    We use electrolysis to produce it at only twice the energy cost of just using the electricity to power the car in the first place...

    Or we use fossil fuels to produce it making almost as much CO2 as just burning them in an engine...


    There's simply no way to make hydrogen economically at the moment.
    There are now a few very promising biological methods of splitting water using just sunlight as the power source. I favor a mix of modalities.....fuel cell, hydrogen ICE, biofuel ICE, plug ins vs. all eggs in one basket. If our entire fleet of personal and commercial vehicles were plug ins, the whole country could be paralyzed by just one EMP from a sub-orbital detonation of a nuke. Since Bin Laden has stated that such an EMP over the U.S. is a top dream of his, I feel it is worthy of consideration that we not be 100% plug in electric. Plus progress on bio-splitting of water is advancing steadily.
    "The only normal people are the ones you don't know well". unknown


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    Re: GM Wants "Hydrogen Highway" Across New York

    I rode in one of those at NAIAS... kind of cool, actually. Personally I think they need to put that drivetrain into one of the new 2010 Equinox bodies instead, that might get a bit more attention from folks than this ******* stepchild of an Equinox and a Torrent....

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