E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

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Thread: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

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    E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    By CHRISTOPHER JENSEN
    NY Times

    A major association representing ethanol manufacturers is furious that the Environmental Protection Agency has delayed making a decision on whether to allow the ethanol content in gasoline to be increased from 10 to 15 percent. But those worried that the increase will damage existing engines applauded the agency’s decision.

    The request was made in March 2009 by Growth Energy, an ethanol lobbying group.

    Originally a decision by the E.P.A. was expected last December. However, in December the agency said more study was needed and a decision would come in “mid-2010.”

    In a statement released Thursday, the agency said all the necessary tests are not finished and a decision is not expected until this fall. In response, Growth Energy’s chief executive officer, Tom Buis, sent an angry letter to President Obama.

    “As you would expect, we find this further delay unacceptable,” Mr. Buis wrote. “The fact that the federal agencies involved here cannot meet their own deadlines — on a decision that means so much to our nation — reinforces a public perception that government bureaucracy does not work in the best interests of the public. With fossil fuels getting dirtier, costlier and riskier to extract, as we are witnessing with the epic catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico, now is the time we should move on expanding the production and consumption of clean, renewable fuels like ethanol.”

    But associations representing engine-makers applauded the delay. Their concern has been that increasing the amount of ethanol will damage hundreds of millions of existing engines, ranging from chainsaws to automobiles.

    Full article:
    http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...ne/#more-59229

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    How about just removing the 10 percent to begin with? That would solve alot of problems.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Instead of the 10 to 15% increase, why not just produce and sell more of the E85 stuff since the compatible vehicles are already designed for the stuff? If there is any foot dragging, it's with the E85 channel buildout IMO.

    Is GM really field testing my '97 Cavy and is Bobcat really testing my '74 lawnmower for compatibility? It seems to me that the ethanol association is expecting me to do that instead. Not on my dime and No Thanks!

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Put E85 into decent availability, and the farmers won't ever complain again.

    The nearest E85 station is three hours away from me. That is inexcusable.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    It's a ploy to force me to pay needlessly for premium because it's usually the only stuff that isn't 10%

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustapha Mond View Post
    It's a ploy to force me to pay needlessly for premium because it's usually the only stuff that isn't 10%
    premium doesnt really cost that much more to run. probably better to run anyway.

    if its .30 more than reg and you have a 20 gallon tank its only $6 more

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Quote Originally Posted by GReekBoy View Post
    premium doesnt really cost that much more to run. probably better to run anyway.
    That really depends. The higher octane in premium gas = slower burn of the fuel. If the engine doesn't have enough compression to fully burn each fuel charge, you end up either forming carbon faster or blowing raw gas out through the exhaust.

    There's a reason mostly just performance cars and forced induction use or recommend premium gas.

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Around here I think there's ethanol in premium. My Z28 requires premium.
    I have noticed that I can rarely get what the EPA estimates for MPG (when my cars were new in the early 90's.) since they started puting in ethanol.

    I'd love to try E85, but I have no idea were the nearest station that has E85 is. Maybe that Willy's Gas Station near the highway. I think thats the gas station chain Willy Nelson owns.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Bio Butanol provides almost as much power as gasoline and can use the present distribution system and does no damage to engines.

    Why hasn't it replaced regular ethanol and it's production boosted. This stuff is the REAL gasoline alternative!

    www.butanol.com
    Last edited by GMJoe; 06-19-2010 at 02:23 AM.

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Umm well I for one am glad that the decision has been delayed. For my car, its a life or death situation. I've noticed MAJOR MPG differences with my 20 year old 3.1L V6 when using ethanol vs regular gasoline. Yeah, its a great thing for the engines that have been designed to run off of them, but for the ones that haven't its really a risk.

    When I full up at a station where I know they have up to 10% ethanol in the gasonline, my car will get about 21-23MPG over the whole tank, but when I go to a station where I know there is not as high a percentage of ethanol in the gas, I get 30+MPG and I get mileage like in my signature.

    Plus, overtime, its going to take its toll on my poor old 60 degree V6 and cause premature damage that I DO NOT need, and DO NOT want to pay to fix because the ethanol association wants to sell and make more ethanol.

    I refuse or try my hardest to only go to certain gas stations or certain brand gas stations for the quality and low ethanol content in the gasoline.

    If they want to do anything, then they can install a seperate pump and tank for that ethanol crap ONLY, because THE MAJORITY OF US HERE AND MYSELF do not want to deal with that bull****. NO THANK YOU.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Lots of wrong information going around about ethanol.

    At the levels (10 to 15%) it won't do anything to hurt your engines.

    Problem is, cheap fuel systems don't appreciate it. There is some mileage loss but not above 10%.

    I guess if you like what BP has done to the gulf, fall for all the phony information about ethanol.

    Oh btw, in case you haven't noticed, there are virtually no vehicles sold by Toyota that are E85 capable. They lobbied hard to insure that there are no mandates requiring a certain percentage of production be E85 capable. Yeah it costs more to build an E85 capable vehicle. There's stuff like stainless couplers in the fuel system you have to spec into the car or truck. Or really intelligent software and capable engine controllers. You know, the stuff Toyota cuts corners on.

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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    At the levels (10 to 15%) it won't do anything to hurt your engines.
    I am NO Expert on this but, I do not like Ethanol in my cars.
    Isn't it basically alcohol?
    Doesn't it eat away at the gaskets and the like?

    I know if I had a car that has the ability to run E85 I would not burn that unless it was all I could get and I needed a fill up.
    I just do not see the benefit of E85. It may cost less (not by much either) but, you get less MPG so why?

    If they are going to play around with Ethanol Content and all of that then why not just switch over to different power plants for vehicles all together.
    No one can tell me there isn't technology that can power our vehicles more efficiently and less expensive then using OIL.

    I firmly believe 'they' have better battery technology then they are letting the public in on.
    What they are giving us is just crumbs from the table in my opinion....

    I am no different then a lot of people that love the sound of a gasoline engine but, it is past time to go another route with powering our vehicles.
    If we had cheaper 'Fuel Systems' for the general public then we all would benefit.
    (All but Big Oil of course and that to me is the Catch)
    There would be more disposable income and it would help the economy in the long run.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Quote Originally Posted by CamaroAMX View Post
    Around here I think there's ethanol in premium. My Z28 requires premium.
    I have noticed that I can rarely get what the EPA estimates for MPG (when my cars were new in the early 90's.) since they started puting in ethanol.

    I'd love to try E85, but I have no idea were the nearest station that has E85 is. Maybe that Willy's Gas Station near the highway. I think thats the gas station chain Willy Nelson owns.
    You can't run pure E85 in cars not designed for it, it will eat the engine gaskets that come in contact with it and the injectors. Ethanol in high levels is very corrisive and requires special engine components. All of GM's flex fuel engines have completley different intake gaskets and injectors then their none Flex Fuel counterparts. Hence the concern of whether increasing ethonal levels from 10 to 15 percent will hurt current engines or not.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    I have said it before. It would be better if all gasoline were 10 or 15% ethanol. We'd save more gas and oil.
    The EPA is staffed with idiots.
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    Re: E.P.A. Delays Ruling on Increasing Ethanol Content in Gasoline

    Put me down as someone who doesn't want to see the ethanol content of gasoline go up to 15%. I'd rather it wasn't even 10%.

    I'll agree that 'gasoline' should have ZERO ethanol...let the ethanol backers invest in having more E85 stations around, not forcing more ethanol into regular gasoline.

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