Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

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Thread: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

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    Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    SHAH ALAM, Malaysia — A Dutch-based company announced plans Tuesday to produce affordable electric cars by the end of 2009, promising they will be much more powerful than existing models and have zero emissions.

    Detroit Electric is in negotiations with Malaysia’s national auto maker, Proton, to produce the car in this Southeast Asian nation and is also talking to a German and a U.S. carmaker, said the company’s chief executive, Albert Lam. He declined to name the companies.

    “We believe in affordable electric vehicles for the public. That is our dream ... to find innovative ways to counter global warming,” Lam told a news conference before journalists test drove a sports car, a sedan and a subcompact car fitted with Detroit Electric’s technology.

    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../80902013/1014

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Global warming or not, I feel this is a very positive development! 200 mile range per charge? A much more powerful motor that is many times lighter than current ones? Potent acceleration? Pretty impressive technology from a small company as GM struggles to get the 40 mile range Volt out by 2010....in test fleets only. I wonder if this company might be a new "Ford and Model T". Thanks for posting this.
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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Hmmm...I'm not buying a lot of those numbers they're touting. I suspect stock fraud.
    Last edited by prowlerjc; 09-02-2008 at 02:53 PM.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    Global warming or not, I feel this is a very positive development! 200 mile range per charge? A much more powerful motor that is many times lighter than current ones? Potent acceleration? Pretty impressive technology from a small company as GM struggles to get the 40 mile range Volt out by 2010....in test fleets only. I wonder if this company might be a new "Ford and Model T". Thanks for posting this.
    I will believe it when I can drive and buy it. As should you.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    I will try to make it a priority to remember this company's name and check in now and then and see how their progress, if any, is measuring up. I am mindful of the derision and ridicule the Wright Brothers endured for pursuing their impractical and "impossible" vision. In my 20's I had the pleasure of reading a collective letter released by a bunch of scientists declaring as "fact" that the flight of a heavier-than-air aircraft was "impossible" because it would require "infinite acceleration" to stay above the ground....a short time later the Wright Brothers flew. I am hopeful that this greatly improved electric motor, plus the batteries, also turn out to be "ahead of their time" vs. a stock scam or simple boasting.
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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    I would not be optimistic. ZAP is part of this Detroit-Electric venture and has not had success in trying to build/market electric cars.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    I will try to make it a priority to remember this company's name and check in now and then and see how their progress, if any, is measuring up. I am mindful of the derision and ridicule the Wright Brothers endured for pursuing their impractical and "impossible" vision. In my 20's I had the pleasure of reading a collective letter released by a bunch of scientists declaring as "fact" that the flight of a heavier-than-air aircraft was "impossible" because it would require "infinite acceleration" to stay above the ground....a short time later the Wright Brothers flew. I am hopeful that this greatly improved electric motor, plus the batteries, also turn out to be "ahead of their time" vs. a stock scam or simple boasting.
    The vast majority of flying machine inventors were total failures, with some out right scam artists too. The Wright brothers persevered with a good design (and were lucky that others had worked on engine developement, so that it would be light enough for it's power output to fly). But the Wright brothers never realized any great prosperity from their design, and spent most of what they did make on lawsuits, instead of improvements (because others WERE improving on their designs).

    This Detroit Electric vehicle seems to lay most of it's advancement on an improved electric motor. While that's certainly a not a bad thing, the bottleneck for electric cars is the BATTERY. They are too expensive, too heavy, take up too much space, and take too long to recharge. THESE are the areas where advancement is hoped for.
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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainDan View Post
    The vast majority of flying machine inventors were total failures, with some out right scam artists too. The Wright brothers persevered with a good design (and were lucky that others had worked on engine developement, so that it would be light enough for it's power output to fly). But the Wright brothers never realized any great prosperity from their design, and spent most of what they did make on lawsuits, instead of improvements (because others WERE improving on their designs).

    This Detroit Electric vehicle seems to lay most of it's advancement on an improved electric motor. While that's certainly a not a bad thing, the bottleneck for electric cars is the BATTERY. They are too expensive, too heavy, take up too much space, and take too long to recharge. THESE are the areas where advancement is hoped for.
    There's really not that much room for improvement in electric motors - they are very efficient, and they can be scaled up to whatever power level you want.

    There certainly could be improvements, but not enough to get 200 miles from an affordable battery pack, at least not without significantly improving the batteries themselves.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    And you can rest assured that a few of those 0-60 sprints will just about drain the battery.

    We had an electric Dakatoa at the AF base I worked at in the mid 90s. Supposedly had a 25 mile range, but cut on the AC, wipers and headlights, and the range was less than 10 miles.

    The base commander found this out the hard way.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    Global warming or not, I feel this is a very positive development! 200 mile range per charge? A much more powerful motor that is many times lighter than current ones? Potent acceleration? Pretty impressive technology from a small company as GM struggles to get the 40 mile range Volt out by 2010....in test fleets only. I wonder if this company might be a new "Ford and Model T". Thanks for posting this.
    We don't think a pure EV version of the Volt couldn't get this kind of range. If you replaced the range extender with more batteries it's not out of the question. Lutz's comments on the Volts challenges has been about testing control software and battery longevity. If you didn't have to have a range extender and could just stuff it full of batteries, it could be on the road now I would guess.
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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by pinyon View Post
    We don't think a pure EV version of the Volt couldn't get this kind of range. If you replaced the range extender with more batteries it's not out of the question. Lutz's comments on the Volts challenges has been about testing control software and battery longevity. If you didn't have to have a range extender and could just stuff it full of batteries, it could be on the road now I would guess.
    I've wondered if we might end up seeing different Volts....all electrics for city use only, ones with either ICE or fuel cell range extenders, high power versions for future Firebirds and Vettes, etc. I just hope that E-Flex is fully sound so I can enjoy watching it evolve.
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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainDan View Post
    The vast majority of flying machine inventors were total failures, with some out right scam artists too. The Wright brothers persevered with a good design (and were lucky that others had worked on engine developement, so that it would be light enough for it's power output to fly). But the Wright brothers never realized any great prosperity from their design, and spent most of what they did make on lawsuits, instead of improvements (because others WERE improving on their designs).

    This Detroit Electric vehicle seems to lay most of it's advancement on an improved electric motor. While that's certainly a not a bad thing, the bottleneck for electric cars is the BATTERY. They are too expensive, too heavy, take up too much space, and take too long to recharge. THESE are the areas where advancement is hoped for.
    Good points.

    This company could fold because of "evil corporate interests" or due to too much government interference. But I'm betting they collapse because they're either foolishly optimistic or outright con artists. I would love to be proven wrong.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    The Volt can go 40 miles on an 8 KWH charge and uses a cutting edge, 300 pound lithium ion battery. If this car can go 200 miles what is the battery technology? Have they discovered something new? If so, the article didn't mention it, only the fact that this car will use a lighter electric motor. If this car weighed only half of the Volt, I could see a claim of 80 miles, but 200 miles, this seems really optimistic. At half the weight of the volt (about 1900 pounds) it would still need a battery capable of holding about 20 KWH. If the Volt's state-of-the-art battery weighs 300 pounds and holds 8 KWH, a 20 KWH battery using the same technology would weigh 2 1/2 times as much, or 750 pounds. That only leaves 1150 pounds for everthing else. What does everyone think? The number don't seem to add-up to me.

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    Re: Dutch venture plans cheap, powerful electric cars

    Quote Originally Posted by lkimura View Post
    The Volt can go 40 miles on an 8 KWH charge and uses a cutting edge, 300 pound lithium ion battery. If this car can go 200 miles what is the battery technology? Have they discovered something new? If so, the article didn't mention it, only the fact that this car will use a lighter electric motor. If this car weighed only half of the Volt, I could see a claim of 80 miles, but 200 miles, this seems really optimistic. At half the weight of the volt (about 1900 pounds) it would still need a battery capable of holding about 20 KWH. If the Volt's state-of-the-art battery weighs 300 pounds and holds 8 KWH, a 20 KWH battery using the same technology would weigh 2 1/2 times as much, or 750 pounds. That only leaves 1150 pounds for everthing else. What does everyone think? The number don't seem to add-up to me.
    Even your estimates are optimistic. The range of an EV is more dependent on aerodynamics and tire friction than weight (because more weight = more energy regained from regenerative braking).

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