DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

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Thread: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

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    DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Full Link here: http://ethanol-news.newslib.com/story/6938-20200/

    There's a lot of room between E10 and E85, says Alexander Karsner.

    Karsner, the assistant secretary of energy efficiency and renewable energy at the Department of Energy, says that there needs to be a greater variety of gas-ethanol blends. E10 has only 10 percent ethanol, and in some states E10 contains only 2 percent to 3 percent ethanol, he said during a meeting with reporters at the Dow Jones Alternative Energy Innovations conference taking place in Redwood City, Calif.


    In his State of the Union address in January, President Bush called for more research into alternative fuels. A month later, he took time for a photo op with this ethanol racecar at a North Carolina biotech company.

    On the other end of the spectrum there is E85. E85, however, is sold in only one-third of 1 percent of gas stations nationwide. (E10 can fit into conventional pumps.) If forced to carry more E85, gas stations would figure out how to adjust their supply chains to handle it, but it might be easier to concoct new blends.

    In Brazil, for instance, the lowest blend is E22, which contains 22 percent ethanol. E15 can be inserted, and pumped out of, conventional gas pumps in the U.S.

    "Can you grow that market more with intermediate blends?" Karsner asked rhetorically. He then stated: "It is not going to be just E10 and E85."


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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    When I was in Wisconsin in summer '06 I saw a few gas stations additionally carry E20 (apart from E10 and E85). So, the blends are really already around, just less frequently used.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    I thought that E10 was the highest concentration of ethanol a car could handle before needing upgrades to the fuel system. What would be the point of having a lower concentration than E85 but still needing a flex fuel car?

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    E-85 is now a govt program and we all know those NEVER go away no matter how wasteful or inefficient they are.
    chevy owner since 1953,30 new chevys and 11 new corvettes since 1959 ,# 11 2008 corvette in the garage ,2004 impala,1988 2500 silverado,former NASCAR tech inspector,retired race engine builder. 2008 corvette sold waiting for the C-7. old 88 silverado gone and replaced with a new 2013 ext cab silverado.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by motorman
    E-85 is now a govt program and we all know those NEVER go away no matter how wasteful or inefficient they are.
    Third brake lights, unleaded gasoline, catalytic converters, air bags, seat belts and child car seats are now a govt program and we all know those NEVER go away no matter how wasteful or inefficient they are.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    NO MORE BLENDS! pick one that works. part of the reason gas is so expensive is there are so many different grades. pick one please and save money.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierRon
    Third brake lights, unleaded gasoline, catalytic converters, air bags, seat belts and child car seats are now a govt program and we all know those NEVER go away no matter how wasteful or inefficient they are.
    correct,all necessary for people too stupid to do for themselves.
    chevy owner since 1953,30 new chevys and 11 new corvettes since 1959 ,# 11 2008 corvette in the garage ,2004 impala,1988 2500 silverado,former NASCAR tech inspector,retired race engine builder. 2008 corvette sold waiting for the C-7. old 88 silverado gone and replaced with a new 2013 ext cab silverado.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by ptmeyer84
    I thought that E10 was the highest concentration of ethanol a car could handle before needing upgrades to the fuel system. What would be the point of having a lower concentration than E85 but still needing a flex fuel car?

    yeah thats what i was thinkin.. Here in Wisconsin we have E10.. it already makes your car get worst gas millage. and it actually eats plastic (it did on my lawnmower.. no lie) i would hate to see that E20 could do to a car not made for it. IF they are going to make a flex fuel car .. go all the way not half-ass.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by motorman
    correct,all necessary for people too stupid to do for themselves.
    Nice synopsis.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by bluecon
    Nice synopsis.
    What do catalytic converters and unleaded gasoline and third brake lights have to do with the intelligence of car purchasers?

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Why doesn't Mobil or Exxon start a new branch company, give it a "green" name, and then sell different varieties of ethanol? I think they would make a killing if they could get the stations up and running quickly. They could buy up existing stations and convert them or something to save time too.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by ptmeyer84
    I thought that E10 was the highest concentration of ethanol a car could handle before needing upgrades to the fuel system. What would be the point of having a lower concentration than E85 but still needing a flex fuel car?
    Wisconsin has been in a fight with the manufacturers over this since 2005. They put 100,000 miles on a truck with a gasoline only engine, running on E85 only. They reprogrammed the computer so the fuel feed was appropriate.

    They then tore the truck apart from fuel tank to muffler and inspected all the components that were touched by either the raw E85 or the combusted exhaust. Their results were surprising to everyone. In every component comparison, the E85 parts were at the same level of wear or better. Of particular note was the fuel filtration subsystem and the cylinder heads - both looking much better than the gasoline counterpart.

    I'll find the link and post it.

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Quote Originally Posted by motorman
    correct,all necessary for people too stupid to do for themselves.
    I think you missed the sarcasm. Either that or I am missing something

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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    Modern, post '96 have fuel systems that can handle 20% ethanol, but the ECM will need a re-flash because of increased fuel supply.

    If E10 is dropping your mileage, there are likely other factors at work.
    Consider the thermal content of gasoline as 1 and the thermal content of Ethanol as .67 (67% of the BTU contained by gasoline, per pound). E10 will have 96.7% of the thermal content of gasoline, so let's assume a straight across 3% drop in economy, going from 20 mpg to 19.3 mpg is hardly a massive drop.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevecmh
    yeah thats what i was thinkin.. Here in Wisconsin we have E10.. it already makes your car get worst gas millage. and it actually eats plastic (it did on my lawnmower.. no lie) i would hate to see that E20 could do to a car not made for it. IF they are going to make a flex fuel car .. go all the way not half-ass.
    I seriously doubt that it was the 20% ethanol. Think about how much 40% Ethanol is sitting in plastic bottles at the grocery store. The plastic on your mower was likely eaten away by heat, age, time, and a combination of constant fuel contact (solvents) and low quality parts.

    Now, MTBE, is a very different story, nasty stuff, and will kill you if it gets in the water supply.

    Ethanol in the water leads to poor decision making, meaningless promises, and in a worst case scenario, additional people to feed.
    Who is John Galt?
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    Re: DOE says more ethanol blends on the way

    So what's the verdict on whether E20 for example would work in non-flex fuel vehicles without causing damage? Some here seem to think that it would be fine and some seem to think it would damage the fuel system. I've also seen above that the ECM would need a reflash to accommodate E20.
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