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Thread: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainDan View Post
    No. That would LOWER your rates since the peak demand is kept low, and a more uniform demand is achieved. The utility would be selling more of it's product (electricity) with no additional infrastructure cost.
    I don't see that happening. A more likely scenario would be an increase in rates.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Charging electric cars off the grid could actually REDUCE the likelyhood of blackouts and power disruptions.

    Similar to the way a lot of utilities offer a seperate (and cheaper) "interuptible" line specifically for your A/C. If there is a heavy spike in electricity demand, the feed to your A/C is interupted (usually just for a few minutes, you'd never even notice). The utility pays to install this setup (it helps them).

    Such a line could be even better with a charger, as some power could actually feed back to alleviate a temporary spike.

    This would work very well since it also takes time (decades) to add appreciable numbers of electric cars to the fleet. And that time lag allows utilities to keep up and plan ahead, building more capacity.
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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ95GAGT View Post
    I don't see that happening. A more likely scenario would be an increase in rates.
    No. Utilities are not the same as oil companies. Rate increases require public hearings to prove that they NEED to increase the rates. And selling more electricity with the same equipment SAVES them money. Rates would drop (or at least not go up) until there were enough electric cars (millions)to swamp the off peak periods, but that would take decades, which would allow a utility time to build in additional capacity.
    Last edited by CaptainDan; 07-17-2008 at 07:57 AM.
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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by LiNx View Post
    Yeah, our infrastructure can support plug-in hybrids. We'll just have more rolling-blackouts in the suburbs between the draw created from those and A/C running on these days that are in the 90s. Seriously... My fiance doesnt have power just 2 miles away, and it tried to cycle on probably 5 times while I was over there and just fell on its face. But sure, bring on the battery cars.
    The plug-ins will mostly be charged at night, when A/C use drops. And 100K plug-ins aren't going to hurt anything, it's not like all 270 million cars are being replaced all at the same time with plug-in hybrids. Everything will be alright.

    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like" - Will Rogers

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post
    People need to remember that electric cars can easily be charged at night during off peak times. Yes - even in California. The DOT estimates that 80% of the existing cars and light trucks could be re-charged during off peak hours WITHOUT adding a single wire or power plant to the grid.

    The infrastructure exists TODAY to refuel plug-in electric vehicles in virtually everyone’s home. The Volt will plug into a 120V outlet, draw 13 amps or less and recharge in approx. 6 hours.

    Approximately 94% of the oil we burn today in the United States is for automotive gasoline. We could reduce our needs for oil to what we can supply domestically (eventually to nearly zero if we wanted to) and not buy another barrel from the Middle East. The technology is available NOW. It is only a political issue. We need the will to make this happen. We can do it.... GM and the Volt will help!
    Using P= i times e............ that would be around 1.6kw/hr..? Is that right?
    Around $.60 at our rates......

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    California has some of the highest rates in the country. Even so, you should be able to charge the Volt over night (approx. 6 hours) and drive 40 miles the next day for about $1.70. That equates to "roughly" 60 cents per gallon (making some rough assumptions about average MPG etc.).

    On another note - not only will PHEV not cause an issue with the grid when charged at night (yes - even in California), but at some point when there are many, many electric cars plugged into the grid, they could be used to prevent brown-outs by drawing power from the battery during peak times.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post
    .....
    On another note - not only will PHEV not cause an issue with the grid when charged at night (yes - even in California), but at some point when there are many, many electric cars plugged into the grid, they could be used to prevent brown-outs by drawing power from the battery during peak times.
    Wouldn't that be a bit counterproductive towards the maximum driving range of the plugin electric vehicle? If we were to have periodic brownouts --- but our plugin cars are putting power back into the system --- wouldn't that take energy from the batteries and decrease optimal driving range? And might the constant give & take decrease the life of the batteries too?

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by jlt0x View Post
    Wouldn't that be a bit counterproductive towards the maximum driving range of the plugin electric vehicle? If we were to have periodic brownouts --- but our plugin cars are putting power back into the system --- wouldn't that take energy from the batteries and decrease optimal driving range? And might the constant give & take decrease the life of the batteries too?

    yeah, that's why i don't like that idea. i want to have control over how my batteries are charged and discharged.

    it's better to just continue forward with supplementing the grid with wind, solar, and nuclear.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by logansowner View Post
    I have no doubt most places can handle it. But I am doubtful that places in California are capable as of now...or many large cities for that matter. But I can't see it being a problem anyway. The fear mongers toss out their numbers as if every vehicle on the road is going to be a plug in next week, which isn't remotely the case.

    Even if every new vehicle was a plug in, the rate of sale on new vehicles to retirement of old cars is still a slow progression.
    Good point. There are only 15 million new vehicles sold here every year. To max out the system according to the article... every new vehicle for the next 4 years would have to be a plug in; every truck, every SUV, every small car, everything . It's just not going to happen. It will be a slow progression at best.

    In addition plugins and EREVs are NOT intended for the general population. They will be directed to well-to-do suburbanites with very specific commuting patterns. Even if the Volt were available tomorrow and it was perfect and it got 40 gas-free miles every day I still wouldn't buy it, nor the Toyota version either. I drive too many miles every day and for the price I wouldn't save any money. However it would be perfect for my wife in her commute. Many city dwellers, people living in bad neighborhoods, people on very very tight budgets who cannot afford even a $20000 vehicle and those with long drives every day are not likely to see any benefit to plugins.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainDan View Post
    No. Utilities are not the same as oil companies. Rate increases require public hearings to prove that they NEED to increase the rates. And selling more electricity with the same equipment SAVES them money. Rates would drop (or at least not go up) until there were enough electric cars (millions)to swamp the off peak periods, but that would take decades, which would allow a utility time to build in additional capacity.
    The biggest benefit I see here to widespread use of plugins is that the money stays here. Yes we are paying one large company, the electric utility, as opposed to Big Oil but that money stays in the US.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by PhishPhood View Post
    The biggest benefit I see here to widespread use of plugins is that the money stays here. Yes we are paying one large company, the electric utility, as opposed to Big Oil but that money stays in the US.
    exactly. not to mention we have plenty of coal (although I would like altenatives to grow as fast as possible).

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    I concur with CaptainDan. I work for a large mid-west utility (not AEP) at a coal fired generation facility and he is pretty much dead-on on how the utilities operate. Nuke units are baselined almost all the time, as are most of the larger coal units. The older, smaller coal units try to manage the peaks and valleys, and natural gas fired turbines are the last resort for handling peaks (they are very expensive to run).

    For those concerned about California, tell your state representatives to stop shutting down 900MW nuclear units (Rancho Seco) to replace it with 4MW solar units. No joke, they have done that. Let's see, 900MW x24x7 or 4MWx12-16hrs/day....hmmm. All California does is shift the brunt of the power generation responsibility to neighboring states and then complain about how much pollution they generate.

    Besides, how many of those quoted power outages everyone refers to are started at night? My guess would be relatively few. By bringing up the base load in the evenings, utilities would be able to run their equipment closer to their design point, which is their most efficient points. Sure, that may mean some equipment will wear out quicker, but with higher load means higher overall revenue and the capital to invest in new equipment that takes advantage of technological improvements.

    Just my 2 cents, and my first post!

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by ronald mcretard View Post
    yeah, that's why i don't like that idea. i want to have control over how my batteries are charged and discharged.

    it's better to just continue forward with supplementing the grid with wind, solar, and nuclear.
    You WOULD have control. You just have to pay the higher standard rates if you don't want to participate. This is exactly how the A/C interuptable service already DOES work! And the interuptions are measured in minutes - you're going to notice that, when you take 4 or more hours to charge up?
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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by jlt0x View Post
    Wouldn't that be a bit counterproductive towards the maximum driving range of the plugin electric vehicle? If we were to have periodic brownouts --- but our plugin cars are putting power back into the system --- wouldn't that take energy from the batteries and decrease optimal driving range? And might the constant give & take decrease the life of the batteries too?
    Not at all. First of all, it would likely only happen rarely. Even in California we only have a few brownouts and then not every year. Second, the owner of the car would have to agree to allow his/her battery to be used in this manner and then likely only if it was "guaranteed" that it would be fully charged by 5:00 am (or something like that). The Peak times would be in the late afternoon. After 10:00 pm - brownouts are unheard of (blackouts are another story and usually result from a failure of the system not excessive demand). Lastly, it is likely that the power company would agree to recharge you battery by morning at a slightly reduced rate - thus providing a financial incentive to sign up for the program.

    This would not really help untill quite a few PHEV's were on line and participating but it is a possibility.

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    Re: American Electric Power says grid ready for plug-in hybrids

    ED SUSKI

    Suski is this the Saddleback, CSUF, AST Ed Suski??? Let me know.

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