Pontiac Saddles "Total Performance" Torrent with the Hoary 3400...

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Thread: Pontiac Saddles "Total Performance" Torrent with the Hoary 3400...

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    Angry Pontiac Saddles "Total Performance" Torrent with the Hoary 3400...

    Ah, my 4000th post as a GMI'er, and on what an unpleasant occasion...

    Why give Pontiac a better engine? What's Pontiac but a rebadged Chevy, anyway? Why spend to change engines when we can just repackage what we already have with a twin port grille? So asks the GM Beancounter.

    Not many things GM does will get me angry enough to vent near "Asylum" levels regarding its cars (well, some here may beg to differ), but sticking the "Pontiac" Torrent with the same tired ancient 3.4L engine....Yes, that did it. What a steaming pile of Beancounter poo-poo... Lutz, you are Mr. Putz this week in my mind for letting this one get through.

    No, no - don't start with the defense. It's not a "solid engine". It's old, cheap (Chinese Cheap, to boot), noisy (I've driven it in the Equinox), not bulletproof or particularly renowned for being reliable (like the equally ancient 3800), and deserves to be retired to that great graveyard in the sky next to the Iron Duke. GM chooses COST over its next generation 3500 engine, yet again 2 years after the Malibu gets the redesigned version of the engine.

    Yes, I'll say it again for all the hard of reading, the replacement for the 3400 (the 3500) will have been here for years now, so there really is no excuse, save cost cutting. And if it costs me an extra 500 bucks for a more reliable, recently engineered, redesigned engine and improved reputation for GM, I'll choose the 500 bucks.

    3.5-liter V-6, will debut in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu. The engine offers improved performance and fuel efficiency, and runs smoother and quieter than earlier generation V-6 engines.

    The 3500 V-6 features an advanced powertrain control module, improved fuel injection system, a redesigned exhaust manifold and a new catalytic converter contribute to reduced emissions, as well as improved efficiency and performance characteristics. Improvements in cooling, sealing and the accessory drive system add to the engine's overall quality, reliability and durability.
    Die 3400! Die!



    Is the Chinese version slightly different and improved over the old 3.4 that we know? Yes. Did it get "most" of the advancements that the 3500 got? Perhaps. But unless GM was blowing smoke up our collective butts with the PR praising the improvements of the 3500 engine in reliability over its predecessor, we are getting yesteryear's tech in an all new Pontiac that hasn't even come out yet. And at the very least, if you want to claim that the 3400 is every bit as advanced as the 3500 and the 3.5LVVT coming soon --- it has less horsepower and torque than it could, with no apparent benefit in fuel economy. How can you defend that?

    You really did it Pontiac, and I officially spit a wet nasty one on the Torrent.

    From The Car Connection:
    Pontiac Reveals Torrent Wagon

    Also being talked about - but not shown - at the Anaheim show is the Pontiac Torrent, the 2006 crossover wagon that shares its architecture with the Chevy Equinox and makes its on-sale debut in the fall of 2005. The Torrent, like the Equinox, will be built in Ontario, and sports the same 185-hp, 3.4-liter V-6, in either front-drive or all-wheel-drive format. "The Torrent represents a new dimension of Pontiac 's commitment to 'total performance,'" said Jim Bunnell, Pontiac-GMC general manager. "Along with a spirited powertrain and a crisp handling package rarely seen in an compact SUV, the Torrent adds a degree of flexibility and spaciousness designed to meet the needs of owners with active lifestyles." The 2006 Torrent will join a host of new Pontiac products in that model year, the brand promises, including a G6 coupe, the Solstice roadster, and a G6 convertible.
    http://thecarconnection.com/index.as...&sid=173&n=156



    "The Torrent represents a new dimension of Pontiac 's commitment to 'total performance,'" said Jim Bunnell
    Mr. Bunnell, for your inane spinning, this one's for you:



    Even the HUMILIATION of a Honda engine in a GM vehicle (Saturn VUE Redline) would be preferable to this brand marketing tomfoolery.
    Last edited by Ming; 12-09-2006 at 11:57 AM.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 Canuck's Avatar
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    Wow wanting a Honda engine. You are mad.
    Soccor Moms won't care. Console yourself with the GXP Grand Prix and the leaked Z06 photos. I know GM can do better just avoid the Torrent's engine and your will feel much better.

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm feeling better already. I'll bring my dog to the Pontiac dealership so he can lift his leg on the Torrent while I'm checking out the REAL performance Pontiacs.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 big swede's Avatar
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    Wow I can't believe it. I sure hope Pontiac doesn't become a rebadged Chevy at a higher price. That's a terrible engine for such an otherwise promising vehicle.

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    Yes, the 3500 would have been a better choice, but it has yet to be proven if the 3500 is really any better (reliability, piston slap, leaky gaskets) than the 3100/3400 that it is based on.

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    Good point, bgclarke. It's a testament to my optimism of how on the one hand I choose to fall for GM's 3500 PR "better reliability and cooling, etc. etc.", but instantly see through the spin about this rebadged Equinox being a "total performance package for Pontiac."

    It's also a good indication of my not being tech-saavy enough in regards to engine design to understand the inherent benefits (if there really are that many) of the 3500 engine over the Chinese version of the 3400.



    But I do know a rebadge when I see one!

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 big swede's Avatar
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    If by the year 2004 a car company doesn't have 100% confidence in creating a reliable pushrod V-6 they might as well as pack up and go home.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 jro4566's Avatar
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    I too see no point in paying a higher price (which it will probably have) for a PURE rebadge of the Equinox. It's the CSV story all over again. If GM wanted to differentiate the Torrent, they should have atleast put the 2.8L HF V6 detuned to 200HP (so as not to overthrow Cadillac).

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    Why cant GM just kill their OHV engines and start making some OHC motors?

    1.) It'll completely kill the whole "this car is using old tech engine blah blah" arguments thats been used against them forever.

    2.) They can tune this stuff for torque down low. Look at the Ecotec, and look at the old Quad4 based Twin Cam. Those things torque curves were flatter than a wooden board. Not to mention VVT will help out also.

    3.) The OHV's they have now have been what? used for the last decade?

    Keep the OHV with the Vette and the trucks.

    Stop trying to defend the OHV's. AS valid as their points are in its usability and cost, PERCEPTION is what people care about, and what everyone percieves to be true is that OHC > OHV.

    GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!

    Replace all your old pushrod motors with I6's.
    2.5L DOHC I6 VVT 200hp/200torque
    3.0L DOHC I6 VVT 250hp/250torque
    3.5L DOHC I6 VVT 285hp/285torque
    put THESE in the caddies and then let the HFV6's go to the standard mainstream brands.

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    Well, that may be true Squachy, but I would have been happy with just the upgrade from the 3400 to the 3500.

    3.5-liter V-6, will debut in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu. The engine offers improved performance and fuel efficiency, and runs smoother and quieter than earlier generation V-6 engines.

    The 3500 V-6 features an advanced powertrain control module, improved fuel injection system, a redesigned exhaust manifold and a new catalytic converter contribute to reduced emissions, as well as improved efficiency and performance characteristics. Improvements in cooling, sealing and the accessory drive system add to the engine's overall quality, reliability and durability.
    Last edited by Ming; 08-19-2005 at 02:01 PM.

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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) Premium Member BigAls87Z28's Avatar
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    Ming, I agree with you on this 100%. No one was more upset with this move then I. I was reallllly looking foward to a 3.5 powerd, totaly unique looking Torrent. But no...a rebadge using the old 3.4. They had the chance to make a cute-ute on the level of the Murano, and they dropped the ball. A flexable urban SUV. What is so wrong with the 3.5? Can the transmission handle the power increase? Its a 60* V6, so it fits. I can only think of 2 reasons.
    #1-Trans cannot take the massive power increase from the 3.5. Doubt it, but you never know.
    #2-Cost cutting BS that is going to kill certain cars.
    With SUV's being very popular, this would have been the ticket to get more people into Pontiacs dealership.
    The only thing I can think is taht they are using the 3.4 because its soo cheap that they cannot pass up on the deal. The only idea is, why not have them make the 3.5 instead of teh 3.4? DUH!
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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Premium Member paul8488's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28
    They had the chance to make a cute-ute on the level of the Murano, and they dropped the ball. A flexable urban SUV.
    I agree. They really should have done a new Aztek (without the goofy looks or sullied name), with all the room and utility the Aztek showcased. It really was a decent start and a great vehicle... but the Torrent is just another SUV... one that is already available at GM. If it weren't for the G6 and Solstice, I'd think GM is phasing out Pontiac and isn't willing to do much more than add a few sporty GXP models and rebadge a few other vehicles until the sting from phasing out Olds goes away.
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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) Premium Member BigAls87Z28's Avatar
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    I dont know about phasing out Pontiac, but I think that GM's stance on SUV's is "change x and y to make it fit Company A and let it go".
    Take a look at epsilon cars. All 4 of them, 3 in the US, look totaly different as if they were part of 3 totaly different car companies.
    You look at the Nox and Vue...same thing. They were soooooo close. Hell, I would rather have seen a more Vue-looking Torrent then Nox, sans the body pannels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28
    What is so wrong with the 3.5? Can the transmission handle the power increase? Its a 60* V6, so it fits. I can only think of 2 reasons.
    #1-Trans cannot take the massive power increase from the 3.5. Doubt it, but you never know.
    The Aisin transmission has a max engine torque rating of 243 lb.ft. With the 3.5L putting out 220, you can cross that reason off the list.

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    GMI Contributor Premium Member Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelvinJ
    The Aisin transmission has a max engine torque rating of 243 lb.ft. With the 3.5L putting out 220, you can cross that reason off the list.
    That's pretty impressive. I figured it to be a bit lower than that. Almost enough to load it up with the VUE's Honda engine --- but I'd prefer the 3500 with its good fuel economy and GM roots.
    Last edited by Ming; 10-28-2004 at 12:07 PM.

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