Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines - Page 10

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Thread: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

  1. #136
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8 unkillsam's Avatar
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    It's somewhat baffling they didn't move to the LFX when it found its way into the Equinox, with the MCE in '13.

    The LLT probably has a slightly better torque curve in the lower rev ranged based upon the similar torque peak of 270 lb*ft of the LFX in the Nox being 1400rpms higher, so the LLT might motivate the heavy Lambdas off the line a bit better. More than likely it's GM being lazy on the updates though.
    I would believe that however GM put the LFY into the new traverse and enclave instead of the LG X. So more than likely it's just them being lazy on updates
    "The car's brilliant and ... a great surprise, pleasant surprise for all Corvette lovers everywhere ... a huge shock to our competitors ... because I don't think anybody was expecting something that good. What pleases me the most about it was that ... I can say this is the first car that's come out, that was done since I left.

    -- Bob Lutz, former vice chairman and head of global product development at GM

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  3. #137
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by linton23 View Post
    The original service ticket for the check should have all the codes written on it and if you went in with the issue happening before the warranty expired and its documented then it should be covered. I have heard some people say that it makes the fuel mileage worse but nothing confirmed.
    I went to the dealership and asked for the records on the service ticket for when I brought the vehicle in last July, when it was still under warranty. Attached is a photo of the printout they gave me. IMG_9037 and IMG_9038 c.jpg It says "check for codes has in ecm p0172, p0171, p0151, p0131, p0106, p0336, p0331, p0324, p0157, p0101, p0068 check freeze frame on ..." and in another part of the record it says "15 codes stored: if malfunction indicator returns, further diagnosis will be required." Notice there are only 11 codes listed but they say 15 codes were stored. At this point is there any way of knowing what the other 4 codes were and if one of them was a p0008?

  4. #138
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by clevelandrocks View Post
    I went to the dealership and asked for the records on the service ticket for when I brought the vehicle in last July, when it was still under warranty. Attached is a photo of the printout they gave me. IMG_9037 and IMG_9038 c.jpg It says "check for codes has in ecm p0172, p0171, p0151, p0131, p0106, p0336, p0331, p0324, p0157, p0101, p0068 check freeze frame on ..." and in another part of the record it says "15 codes stored: if malfunction indicator returns, further diagnosis will be required." Notice there are only 11 codes listed but they say 15 codes were stored. At this point is there any way of knowing what the other 4 codes were and if one of them was a p0008?
    15 codes stored 4 repeats for a total of 11 listed. Look the shop would want to help you if the code had been there it would have been listed.

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  6. #139
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Biggest gm issue I spent the stupid owners who only rely on driver information center to change oil.

    The false sense of security created a customer base to stupid and lazy to check oil levels between synthetic extended oil changes.

    After the dopes forgot to ever check oil level for thousands of miles and ran the engine dry...they had problems.

    This is not just a GM owner group problem. BMW had a rash of engine problems until they did away with the oil dipstick completely in their cars because owners never used them and went to an electronic oil level monitoring system..

    Today’s car owners are only maintaining their cars when the driver information system on the dash says to.

    GM needs in my opinion to create a drivers information center alert for OIL LEVEL...

    Old school car owners who remember to check the oil level every month or two religiously on their expensive to purchase vehiclesfrom the day they purchase the vehicle are much less likely to ever experience a problem.

    Sure once the engines run dry the owners notoriously check the oil level but by then it’s too late...

    The damage is done...

    Not as popular as trying to blame the car company for a faulty design because it puts the stupidity on the lazy owners and not the manufacturers..

    I won’t be coming back to this thread to read all the raging insults by the owners who are covering up their own stupidity by blaming the manufacturer for the owners lack of common sense until it’s too late.

    Check your oil levels periodically before you run the engine dry in the extended synthetic oil change intervals.

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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    One last thing to mention is don’t use cheap jiffy lube like oil filters that alter the oil flow to the variable valve system that was originally designed with precise parameters which set off a timing alert on the dashboard.

    GM s pcm fix was to widen the parameters of variances because owners did not use GM specified oil filters in maintaince...to save a few bucks....and GM also shortened the oil change intervals not because the engines neeeded it but because many owners were too stupid to check engine oil levels between synthetic oil changes...

    Future GM engines desperately need to follow bmw s lead and make standard oil level monitoring systems not because its engines are faulty but because just as bmw owners are to lazy to check oil levels every 1000 or 2000 or even 3000 miles until after they run the engines dry and check a engine light...but by then it’s too late the damage is done...

    You’ll never get an owner who was too stupid to check the oil level until after it was too late to admit they as the owners screwed up...

    It’s an American thing as in Europe they respect the money they spent on their cars so they take care of their property correctly from the day they purchase said item...

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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    There have been several times when we have worked on these engines with customers having waited 10000 miles between oil changes due to the oil life system. The engine is just sludged with oil and gunk. My shop tells people change at 5000 miles and we have had a lot less issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    Biggest gm issue I spent the stupid owners who only rely on driver information center to change oil.

    The false sense of security created a customer base to stupid and lazy to check oil levels between synthetic extended oil changes.

    After the dopes forgot to ever check oil level for thousands of miles and ran the engine dry...they had problems.

    This is not just a GM owner group problem. BMW had a rash of engine problems until they did away with the oil dipstick completely in their cars because owners never used them and went to an electronic oil level monitoring system..

    Today’s car owners are only maintaining their cars when the driver information system on the dash says to.

    GM needs in my opinion to create a drivers information center alert for OIL LEVEL...

    Old school car owners who remember to check the oil level every month or two religiously on their expensive to purchase vehiclesfrom the day they purchase the vehicle are much less likely to ever experience a problem.

    Sure once the engines run dry the owners notoriously check the oil level but by then it’s too late...

    The damage is done...

    Not as popular as trying to blame the car company for a faulty design because it puts the stupidity on the lazy owners and not the manufacturers..

    I won’t be coming back to this thread to read all the raging insults by the owners who are covering up their own stupidity by blaming the manufacturer for the owners lack of common sense until it’s too late.

    Check your oil levels periodically before you run the engine dry in the extended synthetic oil change intervals.

  9. #142
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    Biggest gm issue I spent the stupid owners who only rely on driver information center to change oil.

    The false sense of security created a customer base to stupid and lazy to check oil levels between synthetic extended oil changes.

    After the dopes forgot to ever check oil level for thousands of miles and ran the engine dry...they had problems.

    This is not just a GM owner group problem. BMW had a rash of engine problems until they did away with the oil dipstick completely in their cars because owners never used them and went to an electronic oil level monitoring system..

    Today’s car owners are only maintaining their cars when the driver information system on the dash says to.

    GM needs in my opinion to create a drivers information center alert for OIL LEVEL...

    Old school car owners who remember to check the oil level every month or two religiously on their expensive to purchase vehiclesfrom the day they purchase the vehicle are much less likely to ever experience a problem.

    Sure once the engines run dry the owners notoriously check the oil level but by then it’s too late...

    The damage is done...

    Not as popular as trying to blame the car company for a faulty design because it puts the stupidity on the lazy owners and not the manufacturers..

    I won’t be coming back to this thread to read all the raging insults by the owners who are covering up their own stupidity by blaming the manufacturer for the owners lack of common sense until it’s too late.

    Check your oil levels periodically before you run the engine dry in the extended synthetic oil change intervals.
    Sorry but you are completely wrong, it has nothing to do with incompetent (or stupid) owners and has nothing to do with oil level. And running the engine dry will kill the bearings long before the chain stretches.

    The timing chain issues with the LLT are a combination of parts supplier, design, oil change intervals and oil spec.

    1. The chain supplier was changed in 2010 because of poor QC.
    2. The oil passages in the heads to lube the chains were enlarged around the same time for improved chain lubrication and less chance of sludge obstruction.
    3. The oil life monitor algorithm was duplicated from the port injected LY7, allowing 12K OCI's which you can't blame on the average consumer for adhering to the OLM as all they are told to do by the owners manual is follow the OLM and check oil levels. As we all know DI is much harsher on oil than PFI and causes more fuel dilution. GM revised the OCI's on the LLT in 2012 and cut the interval roughly in half. I know this as I had a '10 and a '16/'17.
    4. GM started spec'ing Dexos a synthetic blend around '12 to better handle the oil degradation of DI.

    So you could have an early year LLT running dino oil at a GM directed change interval of 12K miles and be most prone to a chain failure.

    Exhibit One that this was an issue was GM having a 10/120K special coverage warranty on the '09s for chain stretch.

    Exhibit Two was the GM had the same goddamn chain stretch problem on the 2.4 DI because again GM used the same OCI algorithm as on the older 2.4 PFI version.

    Sorry, but as an engineer who recognizes ****ty engineering pretty easily, that is ****ty engineering. Not ****ty maintenance.

    Now, I got my '10 to 117k miles because I didn't trust the OLM and I've been using synthetic for years. So 6-7K change intervals with M1 or PP kept me from having any issues. Would your average consumer know to do that when all he hear's is "Follow your owner's manual"? Nope.
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    Re: Timing Chains still Failing on 3.6 Engines

    Quote Originally Posted by NHRATA01 View Post
    Sorry but you are completely wrong, it has nothing to do with incompetent (or stupid) owners and has nothing to do with oil level. And running the engine dry will kill the bearings long before the chain stretches.

    The timing chain issues with the LLT are a combination of parts supplier, design, oil change intervals and oil spec.

    1. The chain supplier was changed in 2010 because of poor QC.
    2. The oil passages in the heads to lube the chains were enlarged around the same time for improved chain lubrication and less chance of sludge obstruction.
    3. The oil life monitor algorithm was duplicated from the port injected LY7, allowing 12K OCI's which you can't blame on the average consumer for adhering to the OLM as all they are told to do by the owners manual is follow the OLM and check oil levels. As we all know DI is much harsher on oil than PFI and causes more fuel dilution. GM revised the OCI's on the LLT in 2012 and cut the interval roughly in half. I know this as I had a '10 and a '16/'17.
    4. GM started spec'ing Dexos a synthetic blend around '12 to better handle the oil degradation of DI.

    So you could have an early year LLT running dino oil at a GM directed change interval of 12K miles and be most prone to a chain failure.

    Exhibit One that this was an issue was GM having a 10/120K special coverage warranty on the '09s for chain stretch.

    Exhibit Two was the GM had the same goddamn chain stretch problem on the 2.4 DI because again GM used the same OCI algorithm as on the older 2.4 PFI version.

    Sorry, but as an engineer who recognizes ****ty engineering pretty easily, that is ****ty engineering. Not ****ty maintenance.

    Now, I got my '10 to 117k miles because I didn't trust the OLM and I've been using synthetic for years. So 6-7K change intervals with M1 or PP kept me from having any issues. Would your average consumer know to do that when all he hear's is "Follow your owner's manual"? Nope.

    I wanted to follow up on my 2012 Traverse timing chain problem. Got it fixed for $2,500 and spent an extra $500 to fix the AC which I had charged weeks before and it leaked out. The AC repair included replacement of seals and this is a silver lining in the timing chain repair since the AC repair was probably a lot less expensive to do when they had the engine already out for the timing chain repair.

    Car runs great now and I'm glad I had the repair done. I heard from an owner of an early year Traverse that they had the timing chain replaced in their Traverse and it never ran the same again so I was concerned that mine wouldn't run right after the repair. However, it seems to be running great.

    I'm not sure about this but I may have caused this problem to begin with. It may have started the day I returned a Dingo Mini Skid Steer. After I returned the machine, I pulled into a parking lot and the engine started to stall, backfire and just run really rough. It stalled and I couldn't get it started and had to have it towed to the dealership. That's when they found the 15 codes I described above. I was worried that I ruined the transmission because I realized afterwards that the machine was quite a bit heavier than the Traverse's towing capacity and I was going up some pretty steep hills on my way to drop off the machine. So maybe I stretched the timing chain by towing this machine that was over capacity. $2,500 lesson learned to make sure to check the weight of what I'm towing and make sure its withing my cars towing capacity.

    Whatever the cause of the timing chain stretch, its fixed now and glad to have it back and running well. Thanks everyone for your comments. Also, I'll make sure to do frequent oil changes (more frequent than recommended in the manual) and have them use the correct oil. Thanks again.

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    It’s the camaro to I have a 2013 camaro 3.6 at 101000 rn and I am having to replace it right now

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