Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum – General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 56

Thread: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

  1. #1
    News Editor Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,602
    Thanks
    1,179
    Thanked 1,851 Times in 734 Posts

    Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?



    Rumors have been swirling for months that GM's arm in Europe, Opel, would be implicated in the dieselgate scandal-- just over the weekend serious allegations took flight that Opel does in fact use defeat devices in two diesel models.

    Opel has been summoned to appear in front of a German Transport Ministry investigative committee this week to answer claims that its cars are capable of skirting emissions laws.

    Der Spiegel reported last week the Opel Astra was found to contain software that will deactivate emissions control systems when the outside temperature is either below 20 degrees Celsius or above 30 degrees Celsius. Additionally it was discovered the emissions systems do not work when engine speeds exceed 2400 rpm; the car is moving faster than 145 km/h; or ambient air pressure is less than 915 millibar, indicating an elevation ofmore than 850 meters.

    Spiegel claims the software was detected by investigating the specific motor controls, as well as observed discrepencies between the lab tests at TUV Nord in Essen and on road testing.

    Opel is playing a game of semantics here; their official response being we do not use software*"which determines whether a car is subjected to an emissions test." However the effect is ultimately the same, exhaust treatment is only operational during testing.

    Meanwhile in the Netherlands, RDW, Dutch authority which issued EU type approval for the Opel Zafira Diesel, is considering a recall and a possible, but unlikely, loss of approval.

    Where the situation gets muddy is when you look at EU type approvals.

    Yes, the rules state*“the use of defeat devices that reduce the effectiveness of emission control systems shall be prohibited,” but at the same time the rules also state the prohibition shall not apply "when the need for the device is justified in terms of protecting the engine against damage or accident and for safe operation of the vehicle.”

    Effectively automakers can drive a bus through a loophole large as that, simply by stating an engine could be damaged while operating in certain ambient temperatures with the emissions controls operating. It's as simple as that.

    Unfortunately until the the regulations are tightened up the manufacturers will continue to exploit loopholes.

    Effectively the industry is operating under the old adage "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying"-- if one automaker refuses, another won't, handing them a competitive advantage.

    Call it the Lance Armstrong defense...
    GMI News Editor

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    6.0 Liter L76 V8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Snow Belt
    Posts
    2,245
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 476 Times in 204 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Maybe Opel, not GM. Hype much???

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to minnfang For This Useful Post:

    oldmember2 (05-16-2016),vanshmack (05-16-2016)

  5. #3
    News Editor Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,602
    Thanks
    1,179
    Thanked 1,851 Times in 734 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnfang View Post
    Maybe Opel, not GM. Hype much???
    Last I checked Opel is the defacto European arm of General Motors, or did I miss a press release?

    EDIT: In case you forgot, the new Cruze is getting the 1.6 diesel from Europe-- it was co-developed by Opel and GM http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-german-words/
    Last edited by GM Insider News; 05-16-2016 at 01:21 PM.
    GMI News Editor

  6. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to GM Insider News For This Useful Post:

    'Vette Dude (05-16-2016),1958carnut (05-16-2016),Al63240 (05-16-2016),doh (05-16-2016),Envoy4Life (05-16-2016),Extreme4x4 (05-16-2016),jalberda (05-16-2016),mgescuro (05-16-2016),richmond2000 (05-17-2016),supraracer (05-16-2016)

  7. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  8. #4
    Chevrolet VOLT
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    St. George, Ut. (The Banned Section ;))
    Posts
    10,550
    Thanks
    13,906
    Thanked 4,049 Times in 2,611 Posts
    My Ride
    2016 Nissan Rogue SV AWD

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Lets hope they get this worked out before Chevy and the Cruze gets drug into the mess as well.

  9. #5
    3.0 Liter SIDI V6 Bigdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    710
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 365 Times in 172 Posts
    My Ride
    14 A/T 6.2 BEAST MODE

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Gm's team of lawyers must make a killing with how busy they are kept....

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bigdog For This Useful Post:

    carbarrister (05-18-2016),GM Insider News (05-16-2016)

  11. #6
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    427
    Thanks
    977
    Thanked 37 Times in 33 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Last I checked Opel is the defacto European arm of General Motors, or did I miss a press release?

    EDIT: In case you forgot, the new Cruze is getting the 1.6 diesel from Europe-- it was co-developed by Opel and GM http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-german-words/
    Last time i look , This is America USA. The USA follow better and stronger Emission laws .

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to oldmember2 For This Useful Post:

    kmacleod (05-17-2016)

  13. #7
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    8,499
    Thanks
    3,827
    Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,903 Posts
    My Ride
    2017 Cadillac CT6

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldmember2 View Post
    Last time i look , This is America USA. The USA follow better and stronger Emission laws .
    The US' emissions laws are much stronger than the EU's

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dslay04 For This Useful Post:

    kmacleod (05-17-2016),oldmember2 (05-16-2016)

  15. #8
    6.0 Liter L76 V8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Snow Belt
    Posts
    2,245
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 476 Times in 204 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Last I checked Opel is the defacto European arm of General Motors, or did I miss a press release?

    EDIT: In case you forgot, the new Cruze is getting the 1.6 diesel from Europe-- it was co-developed by Opel and GM http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-german-words/
    Ya, and GM would fold if they no longer sold a diesel Cruze.

  16. #9
    News Editor Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,602
    Thanks
    1,179
    Thanked 1,851 Times in 734 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnfang View Post
    Ya, and GM would fold if they no longer sold a diesel Cruze.
    Couple it with the "accidentally" higher fuel economy figures of the Lambda triplets and one must begin to ask these questions. https://www.gminsidenews.com/articles...ed-crossovers/

    When VW did it, everyone was all for lynching, but now that its GM, our answers are sarcasm and so what?
    GMI News Editor

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to GM Insider News For This Useful Post:

    'Vette Dude (05-16-2016),377Z (05-17-2016),dratnol (05-17-2016),jalberda (05-17-2016),Sal Collaziano (05-18-2016),WaterBoy1 (05-18-2016)

  18. #10
    3.6 Liter SIDI V6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,094
    Thanks
    61
    Thanked 114 Times in 80 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by minnfang View Post
    Maybe Opel, not GM. Hype much???
    The issue is how much will it cost to fix if the problem exists. There is no Opel money and GM money, it's all GM's money that will have to pay for this.

  19. #11
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Premium Member Neanderthal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    A sunny cave in Transylvania
    Posts
    35,293
    Thanks
    9,770
    Thanked 8,001 Times in 4,804 Posts
    My Ride
    17 Soul&/01 PT LTD/15 JD130

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Der Spiegel reported last week the Opel Astra was found to contain software that will deactivate emissions control systems when the outside temperature is either below 20 degrees Celsius or above 30 degrees Celsius. Additionally it was discovered the emissions systems do not work when engine speeds exceed 2400 rpm; the car is moving faster than 145 km/h; or ambient air pressure is less than 915 millibar, indicating an elevation ofmore than 850 meters.

    WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??????????
    2017 Soul &, Titanium

    Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.--Unattributed

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."--Benjamin Franklin

    "The freedom of Speech may be taken away, and, dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep, to the Slaughter."--George Washington

    Hidden Content

  20. #12
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,740
    Thanks
    747
    Thanked 2,536 Times in 1,913 Posts
    My Ride
    VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Don't panic!

    The high emissions issue is affecting all manufacturers in Europe - they all cheat, most of them more than VW, but their cheats don't technically break existing rules - different to VWs situation in the USA.

    Opel are already making changes to their cars, some being made available for retro-fit on existing models, so they won't be unduly bothered, at least no more than any other manufacturer.

    The 1.6 Whisper diesel is developed primarily by Opel (from it's Fiat origins) but I presume that Chevrolet would have done all the ECU programming to ensure it meets the US regulations - so if there is an issue it'll be down to Chevrolet, not Opel.

  21. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ruperts Trooper For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (05-16-2016),GM Insider News (05-16-2016),kmacleod (05-17-2016),oldmember2 (05-16-2016)

  22. #13
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,740
    Thanks
    747
    Thanked 2,536 Times in 1,913 Posts
    My Ride
    VW Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Der Spiegel reported last week the Opel Astra was found to contain software that will deactivate emissions control systems when the outside temperature is either below 20 degrees Celsius or above 30 degrees Celsius. Additionally it was discovered the emissions systems do not work when engine speeds exceed 2400 rpm; the car is moving faster than 145 km/h; or ambient air pressure is less than 915 millibar, indicating an elevation ofmore than 850 meters.

    WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??????????
    Operating only from 20-30 C is a farce in a climate with average temperatures of 10 or below!

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ruperts Trooper For This Useful Post:

    GM Insider News (05-16-2016),jalberda (05-17-2016)

  24. #14
    6.0 Liter L76 V8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Snow Belt
    Posts
    2,245
    Thanks
    128
    Thanked 476 Times in 204 Posts

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Accardi View Post
    Couple it with the "accidentally" higher fuel economy figures of the Lambda triplets and one must begin to ask these questions. https://www.gminsidenews.com/articles...ed-crossovers/

    When VW did it, everyone was all for lynching, but now that its GM, our answers are sarcasm and so what?
    I agree that the Opel diesel thing is an issue, I just think that the thread title "Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?" is a bit 'fantastical'.

    Regarding the VW debacle, I'm not for lynching them. I think the whole thing is hilarious. The stuffed shirt Germans and the American 'save the planet' types have had the whole thing blow up in their face - awesome.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to minnfang For This Useful Post:

    1958carnut (05-16-2016),AusCalais (05-17-2016)

  26. #15
    News Contributor BlackGTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    15,544
    Thanks
    7,349
    Thanked 9,904 Times in 4,825 Posts
    My Ride
    2013 Cadillac ATS - Black

    Re: Is GM About to be Swallowed by the Dieselgate Maelstrom?

    What bothers me is they violated the spirit of the law, though they complied to the letter of the law. The problem is that if the market leader, VW, was flat out cheating what option did any of the lesser brands have? Most of the other manufacturers must have known (I think a few articles were posted saying that GM did suspect), why didn't they turn in VW? To compete with VW's cheats there are really only two choices - make their own cheat or turn in VW. I would've ratted out VW in seconds.

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlackGTP For This Useful Post:

    ekseubert (05-17-2016),GM Insider News (05-16-2016)

  28. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2