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China to invest 17 billions on fuel cell development

8K views 53 replies 27 participants last post by  Self Reliance 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Let's see how soon Mary will drop EV's and sing about how fuel cells are the future. She can now shutdown some more US plants for fuel cell partnerships in China.

China's Hydrogen Vehicle Dream Chased With $17 Billion of Funding
June 27, 2019
Updated on June 28, 2019
Bloomberg News

*Startup Mingtian Hydrogen sees ‘springtime’ in fuel cells
*China giving subsidies as EV titan promotes ‘hydrogen society’

China’s policies to boost its fledgling hydrogen-powered auto industry are coming at just the right time for entrepreneur and former carmaker executive Wang Chaoyun.

His startup, Anhui Mingtian Hydrogen Energy Technology Co., makes fuel-cell stacks for vehicles propelled by the element, which produces no emissions from the tailpipe. During Mingtian Hydrogen’s brief existence, the fuel-cell vehicle industry has received more than $1 billion worth of investments from Chinese companies, according to data compiled by researcher BloombergNEF.

relates to China's Hydrogen Vehicle Dream Chased With $17 Billion of Funding
Wang ChaoyunSource: Anhui Mingtian Hydrogen Energy Technology Co.
“When I set up the company in 2017, it felt like fighting ahead in complete darkness, with people doubting my choice of going down the road of fuel cell,” said Wang, 56, who’s also the general manager. “The lights are on now, with more hands producing a stronger flame.”

CONTINUE AT LINK ABOVE
 
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#2 · (Edited)
The advantage of a wealthy commie enterprise is that the Chinese state has, at least relative to the private sector in Western Civilization, unlimited financial resources. Thank you R.M. Nixon and Hank Kissinger, nice work!

So despite that H costs more to produce than it's worth as energy, at this point, and that the whole shebang is complex, the Chinese are calculating that if they throw enough money at the problem long enough, it will resolve.

Another factor is they can easily bankrupt all their Western competition, or better yet buy them up and get further invasive cooties into their arch-enemy, Western Civilization. Watch this space for further developments.

Good strategic move on Chyyynnnaaaaa's part.
 
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#25 ·
Yes indeed.

In this way, Japan and certain parts of Europe will not be leaving them..... in the dust.
 
#5 · (Edited)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...vehicle-dream-chased-by-17-billion-of-funding


Let's see how soon Mary will drop EV's and sing about how fuel cells are the future. She can now shutdown some more US plants for fuel cell partnerships in China.
Hydrogen vehicles are not new to GM, they had developed hydrogen powered test vehicles in the early 2000's and a fleet of Hydrogen powered Equinox's as well. There's also the Chevrolet Colorado that GM modified for Hydrogen propulsion as a 12 month Army test vehicle.

If China builds the infrastructure in China to support Hydrogen, then, GM would be foolish not to produce Hydrogen powered vehicles and make some $$$ in that market.
 
#6 ·
Let's see how soon Mary will drop EV's and sing about how fuel cells are the future.
Fuel cell vehicles are a type of EV. They convert the chemical energy of a redox reaction into electricity to power electric motors that propel the vehicle.

Hydrogen vehicles are not new to GM, they had developed hydrogen powered test vehicles in the early 2000's and a fleet of Hydrogen powered Equinox's as well. There's also the Chevrolet Colorado that GM modified for Hydrogen propulsion as a 12 month Army test vehicle.

If China builds the infrastructure in China to support Hydrogen, then, GM would be foolish not to produce Hydrogen powered vehicles and make some $$$ in that market.
+1
In addition to Equinox and Colorado, in the early 2000s GM also developed an Opel Zafira based FCEV prototype named HydroGen3. It had a range of 400 km (250 mi).

 
#15 ·
Fuel cell vehicles are a type of EV. They convert the chemical energy of a redox reaction into electricity to power electric motors that propel the vehicle.
And I've always wondered if this was the angle GM was thinking with all the "EV Hype" ...... remove battery, replace with fuel cell; bingo-bango......


GM and many other manufacturers have been working on hydrogen for a long time now; that hydrogen vehicles are not on the road in material quantities speaks volumes to the state of the technology today. Though definitely worth keep an eye on China, they also have a spotty track record with their investments. Probably a lot of that money will be wasted on duplicative efforts, many of the efforts will be from underfunded start-ups that end up going belly up.
There has been significant progress, and in certain commercial applications it almost "makes sense" today. A buddy of mine at work lives/breathes this stuff.

Hydrogenics $HYGS, was one of the companies we'd follow/trade; Cummins just bought them a couple weeks ago.
 
#7 ·
GM and many other manufacturers have been working on hydrogen for a long time now; that hydrogen vehicles are not on the road in material quantities speaks volumes to the state of the technology today. Though definitely worth keep an eye on China, they also have a spotty track record with their investments. Probably a lot of that money will be wasted on duplicative efforts, many of the efforts will be from underfunded start-ups that end up going belly up.
 
#14 ·
GM and many other manufacturers have been working on hydrogen for a long time now; that hydrogen vehicles are not on the road in material quantities speaks volumes to the state of the technology today. Though definitely worth keep an eye on China, they also have a spotty track record with their investments. Probably a lot of that money will be wasted on duplicative efforts, many of the efforts will be from underfunded start-ups that end up going belly up.
It also speaks volumes about our gov't as well and the direction they seem to think our country should go rather than stay the Hell out and let the market decide or dictate.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Hydrogen microbead fuels will be the way to go in the future take the same time to fill up as a gasoline car the hydrogen microbead capsules are less volatile than gasoline a fill-ups.

Old cars gasoline cars can be run on hydrogen microbeads a 1960's Stang with just water coming out its tailpipe would be cleaner than a gasoline Prius. LINK

US needs to set up a hydrogen infrastructure it would be money well spent long term, so it's less dependant reliant on Saudi oil & China who will own the EV car market in the future as it has an abundance of cheap labour that will needed to drive down the expensive price of electric car and up the wafer thin profit margins, and China owns an abundance rare earth materials in China, own most of the big rare earth mines around the world they have been buying.
 
#9 ·
As always, I'll ask the cognoscenti where this vast source of easily accessible hydrogen fuel lies awaiting our use...
 
#10 ·
It's all around us! We're breathing it! It's free! It's...:fall:
 
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#12 ·
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...vehicle-dream-chased-by-17-billion-of-funding


Let's see how soon Mary will drop EV's and sing about how fuel cells are the future. She can now shutdown some more US plants for fuel cell partnerships in China.
Mary is more than happy to restructure the whole company on promises of treasure from the Chicom dictators, and they will screw her, (or her replacement) in the end. It's the way they do business - but they require a sucker to succeed.
 
#36 ·
Very true, Mary sold GM's soul to the Chinese and they will destroy GM and replace it with their own Automaker.

Real long term answer is Natural Gas Fuel Cells that are very close to the efficiencies of Hydrogen Fuel Cells with a glut of resources available TODAY.

The U.S. is the largest Natural Gas producer in the world and natural gas is essentially FREE due to the excess amount available and most producers simply Flare it off at the well instead of selling it since the supply far outstrips demand. This is also true of all other major producers and while the U.S. flares a lot of Nat Gas off, it is ranked as the 4th largest in the World but will soon become Number 1 and of course that is when the idiots will blame the U.S. for flaring off Nat Gas when it has been done in the Middle East for decades.

Natural Gas burns clean and can be used in ICE vehicles, Hybrid Vehicles and Fuel Cell vehicles and would be perfect for large vehicles like Class 4 to 8 Trucks, Buses and Trains.

The infrastructure is over 80% "built out" and only requires retail distribution stations for public use and most of today's gas stations could install Natural Gas "pumps" and new competitors could do the same.

Makes far more sense to use Natural Gas then Hydrogen but since the U.S. would be the dominant provider it doesn't fit the agenda and is not promoted.
 
#13 ·
GM has experience with fuel cells as stated above. They can build them in vehicles. However, they also ran into serious limitations of the technology. Crash tests with a pressurized hydrogen tank for one. The cost of hydrogen generation and storage in the distribution chain for another. There was more, but maybe cubic dollars solves things.

So, what happens if China builds the infrastructure, but no one else does??? Given this kind of money, that is definitely a possible outcome.
 
#17 ·
AND, if China goes full speed ahead, in 20 years or so where will the hydrogen state of the art be? Look at how far batteries have come. The Pious came out about 20 years ago.
So if they're all aboard the Hydrogen Train, not hard to do with unlimited funds, everyone will be playing catch-up or get bought out. Just because their motives are evil doesn't mean they aren't smart.

Chairman Mao's successors are in The Long March. They look at the world in five, 10, 20, 50 year bites. We look at where the market is now, this minute, and the real long range people look at three months.
 
#23 ·
Barra and Musk better wake up and smell the coffee. China has partnered with US companies for over 20 years and is now at the point where they can drive technology on their own. (After stealing our IP). They want to be the powerhouse of battery and hydrogen power, while our country does nothing but talk about tariffs on junk sold at Walmart and Costco.
 
#24 ·
There is a simple solution to all this. It will just require a rather long, flexible pipeline. I'm thinking this would be a good :clap:project for the Musk-Chyyynnnaaaa! axis:

A gas giant is a large planet composed mostly of gases, such as hydrogen and helium, with a relatively small rocky core. The gas giants of our solar system are Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. These four large planets, also called jovian planets after Jupiter, reside in the outer part of the solar system past the orbits of Mars and the asteroid belt. Jupiter and Saturn are substantially larger than Uranus and Neptune, and each pair of planets has a somewhat different composition.

Although there are only four large planets in our solar system, astronomers have discovered thousands outside of it, particularly using NASA's Kepler Space Telescope. These exoplanets (as they are called) are being examined to learn more about how our solar system came to be.

Basic facts
Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system. It has a radius almost 11 times the size of Earth. It has 50 known moons and 17 waiting to be confirmed, according to NASA. The planet is mostly made of hydrogen and helium surrounding a dense core of rocks and ice, with most of its bulk likely made up of liquid metallic hydrogen, which creates a huge magnetic field. Jupiter is visible with the naked eye and was known by the ancients. Its atmosphere consists mostly of hydrogen, helium, ammonia and methane. [Related: Planet Jupiter: Facts About Its Size, Moons and Red Spot]

Saturn is about nine times Earth's radius and is characterized by large rings; how they formed is unknown. It has 53 known moons and nine more awaiting confirmation, according to NASA. Like Jupiter, it is mostly made up of hydrogen and helium that surround a dense core and was also tracked by ancient cultures. Its atmosphere is similar to Jupiter's. [Related: Planet Saturn: Facts About Saturn’s Rings, Moons & Size]

And we haven't even touched URanus yet. But wait, there's more!


https://www.space.com/30372-gas-giants.html
 
#29 ·
There was a post on /. about converting CO2 back to gas. https://hardware.slashdot.org/story...r-and-wind-power-into-carbon-neutral-gasoline When I first saw the posting, I thought yeah, right, snake oil. And it still could be. It was very interesting. I know Audi has worked on this problem as have others. It has been proven feasibility, just not at reasonable cost. Much like the H2 stuff. I say let the winner win, whichever technology it is.
 
#30 ·
Yes except that CO2 is GOOD, not bad. Reduce CO2, reduce plant growth. Also known as crop yield. Warmer is better, if you think a colder Mother Earth would somehow foster Happy Days you don't get out enough.

The whole premise underlying the West's lemming-like stampede to 'lektriks--except in Chynnaaa!! where some of their dirtiest cities still make Pittsburgh at its worst look like Walden Pond in 1700--is based on Pure Lies. Never mind, people such as pervert algore have gotten wealthy beyond their wildest dreams pushing a Big Lie. Some day they will all meet their Maker, then it's Katie bar the door.
 
#33 ·
I guess the Chinese don’t know global warming is a hoax they created, or maybe that’s what they want us to believe

Because if they are right, no amount of going back to 1950s America would help us compete in the future
 
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#34 · (Edited)
They're probably electrifying in an effort to de-pollute their ****hole cities, where people need to mask up to take the trash out.

They're making a big gamble that some breakthrough will be made, that creating H can somehow become a net energy plus instead of it taking more energy to create your H energy than the H energy that's produced. They can afford it because they loot us to the tune on hundreds of billion$ per year.

We made them rich and tekky, our misguided or worse POTUSs and "diplomats" who are put on pedestals for putting us at grave risk.

They know it's a hoax, they have absolutely no intentions of complying with Kyoto or any other idiocy created by hucksters and bought hook, line, and sinker by guilt-riddled control freaks.
 
#40 ·
In the first three quarters of this year, 1,251 fuel cell vehicles of various kinds were sold in China, 7.6 times the tally for the same period last year, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.

These puppies are taking off like a Falcon Heavy on its way to Mars with Elon and Cher.
 
#44 ·
BMW used to sell H2 fuelled 7 series
and in Canada when I was younger MOST cars were GAS powered (LPG) and CNG was a close second for years
I have owned CNG nat-gas cars
you used to be able to buy a "fuelmaker phill" and fill your car at home overnight or pull into a petrol station and "fast fill" your car and drive for 300 kms and do it again - most stations could get 3000 PSI in 5 - 7 minutes
 
#46 ·
Carbon is GOOD. Earthlings are carbon units. CO2 is good, it makes green plants grow greener and more bigger and gooder.

It's astonishing how stupid as a society we've become over the past 40 years. Brains, washed.
 
#47 · (Edited)
Buy a CO2 gas tank and lock yourself in a room and open the valve.

You know how things inside your car are hotter than outside temperature? That's the greenhouse effect, and that's another negative effect of CO2, other than being a poison that your body expels.

If you are an expert on the topic, there are peer reviewed journals where you can publish your research.

Edit: Xi knows what's up english.qstheory.cn/2019-09/17/c_1124932126.htm

Edit2: CO2 is obviously poisonous to humans, otherwise our bodies would have held on to it, like it holds on to fat. But even if we were to entertain your theory. You do know there is such a thing as water poisoning and vitamin poisoning, right? Your body can only process so much before it is overwhelmed. So please be more informed before spewing nonsense.

Edit3: Yes we are all carbon based, but you seem to be ignorant of the difference between different carbon based compounds. Otherwise you believe CO is beneficial to you, and I urge you to try it, unless you are gaslighting us all? One element or molecule can make a huge difference in how a compound effects your body. Don't believe me? H2O is water, so H2O2 can't be bad for you, it is only one more oxygen atom. Please have some and report back the results.
 
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