Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma. - Page 2

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Thread: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    Looking at the numbers, it looks like the Commodore is the large car market in AU. But the bulk of the volume is compact cars and small pickups. A really competitive Cruze and Colorado, capable of taking on the Mazda3 and Toyota Hilux, would go a long way at making up the volume Holden will lose in 2017. Add some high margin specialty cars (RHD Camaro, Corvette, CTS) and you might get decent volume and profits. I can understand that, given the existing GM compact and pickups on market, it's hard to imagine the next gen being that competitive.

    What will be interesting is what will happen to the large car market after 2017. Will Commodore sales go to another large car? Or will buyers move on to something else completely? CUVs? Euro sports sedans? What think the natives?
    What the sale numbers don't show is what model Commodore is being snapped up. I think it's been said much of it was the V8 and SV6. So while the small car and truck/ute market are the leaders in sales, there is obviously demand for larger cars with bigger motors. And this isn't something that a sporty Cruze or Colorado is going to quench. And the numbers also so we don't want a mid sized sedan without a Toyota badge on it. Oddly though we definitely don't want a mid sized sedan with a V6 either if the Toyota Aurion is telling us anything.

    Regardless there is going to be a substantial market void come 2017.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    i think both ford and GM will have something up their sleeves. Holden were able to keep the Sportwagon a secret and caught Ford out so it can be done. We can only live in hope but i expect whatever comes out will be FWD.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    maybe the Indians will come to rescue with a RWD Jaguar at the right price (the XF is too expensive for what it is!) -at least they are a RHD market so they will making all vehicles ambidextrous!!
    Last edited by chinamonty; 07-06-2014 at 06:00 AM.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by chinamonty View Post
    maybe the Indians will come to rescue with a RWD Jaguar at the right price (the XF is too expensive for what it is!) -at least they are a RHD market so they will making all vehicles ambidextrous!!
    Every manufacturer makes "ambidextrous" vehicles - except GM Detroit! Even the two American manufacturers building electric cars (Tesla and Detroit Electric) are doing both LHD and RHD.

    Don't expect any new Jaguars to be at the "right price" - as a brand, they're on the move upmarket - the new entry-level Jaguar, the XE, will be too small for Aussies by all accounts.

    Try suggesting to Hyundai/Kia that they bring a ruggedised version of the Genesis/K9 to Australia.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruperts Trooper View Post
    Every manufacturer makes "ambidextrous" vehicles - except GM Detroit! Even the two American manufacturers building electric cars (Tesla and Detroit Electric) are doing both LHD and RHD.

    Don't expect any new Jaguars to be at the "right price" - as a brand, they're on the move upmarket - the new entry-level Jaguar, the XE, will be too small for Aussies by all accounts.

    Try suggesting to Hyundai/Kia that they bring a ruggedised version of the Genesis/K9 to Australia.
    I suspect you are right on the Jaguar front. I just read an article that Tesla's next Model which was to be called Model E will be built with a primarily steel body and be sized around that of the 3 series Beemer.

    We will be getting the Genesis sedan, no V8 though as it isn't developed for right hook duties. Only thing it has going for it is the RWD as it is ugly as sin in my eyes.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    ^^^It's also thirsty with the V6 drinking more than both the I6 Falcon and the 3.6 Commodore. Can't blame Hyundai for having a go though. I'm also wondering if Chrysler build a RHD Charger. Now is the perfect time for them to bring some in for the Police market. Yes, right now in povo pack t get the locals interested. Next minute, they're in V8SC and Valiant Chargers start going up in value. Hey Charger!

    As for Holdens position in the market, it is the same as I said in the other thread. Most of their products will be new in 2018. I think we can safely surmise that Astra will take the spot at least of the top end Cruze. A two tier line up is also a good option, not just because it can cover off on a good run out to keep Elizabeth turning an burning, but also because it provides opportunity to charge a bit more for the Astra. I honestly think Astra will fly when it's a Holden again.

    What Toyota have is a big lineup of established names. Astra can combat the Corolla from a familiarity stand point but also open up the market for higher end tech (to fight against the new Mazda 3).

    OPC Insignia is coming so that makes the lower models an odds on bet. It's not like it will step on Malibus toes. Pretty sure the new Captiva will be a good effort. The Captiva when it came out was pretty good (except the early diesel which was a bit of a turkey), certainly a winner in the value stakes. The value of the SUV market these days cannot be understated, no matter how much we (or me) may not like it.

    Barina just needs to lose a bit of weight and [maybe] improve interior plastics. I say maybe because the western market is no longer the most important. Emerging markets are starting to take more and more volume precedence so in order for GM to ensure they establish early and long lasting brand loyalty, those volumes will have to be able to be sold profitably in low transaction priced markets.

    That is, the cheaper end will be more important until those markets can afford to pay more. You can see examples of this in the Ford Ecosport which makes the Trax look like a Maybach (and yes, I am aware that the Trax internal plastics are just ok).

    As a few have mentioned, GM don't give a **** about this market. That may not be entirely true. Of course they would like to get sales here because the transaction price is quite high, but consider this, Thailand built twice as many cars as our entire market sold in 2013. The money for the brand is more about building the product (or more accurately, getting someone to build for them) and squeezing the retail network for as much as they can get.
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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    The sad thing, for me, is I've been buying Holdens for 35 years. First were second handies, but there have been a heap of new 'uns in recent history. For a while I bought some Euros, but the local product won me back.

    But the local product will be no more. The unique blending of US grunt and Euro dynamics will be gone. I firmly believe we will get the European product, which means 'Holden' will be competing with a range of established small and mid sized cars. I drive a Redline, does that mean I will be in the market for a hot hatch? Hardly...

    So, Holden will loose my loyalty, and I will look at the market (through a teary eye) at the so called 'engineered for Australia' imports. My money won't help the bogans (I class myself as a cashed-up bogan) from Elizabeth buy a Villis's at smoko, but a Bavarian some bratwurst for breakfast. It won't be a decision based on passion, but one made on economics. I'll probably look for the cheapest compromise that delivers a bit of comfort and ability to overtake on the open road.

    About the only passion in the decision will be looking other than 'Holden', because I don't want to contribute to the bean-counters saying they were right, 'Holden' can still sell vehicles in Australia.
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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    I think that if I ever get the urge to buy a new car I will forgo it and get a used one and upgrade the interior to what I want rather than get gizzmos I don't want. Unless prices drop dramatically I would still be ahead.

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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherSteve View Post
    The sad thing, for me, is I've been buying Holdens for 35 years. First were second handies, but there have been a heap of new 'uns in recent history. For a while I bought some Euros, but the local product won me back.

    But the local product will be no more. The unique blending of US grunt and Euro dynamics will be gone. I firmly believe we will get the European product, which means 'Holden' will be competing with a range of established small and mid sized cars. I drive a Redline, does that mean I will be in the market for a hot hatch? Hardly...

    So, Holden will loose my loyalty, and I will look at the market (through a teary eye) at the so called 'engineered for Australia' imports. My money won't help the bogans (I class myself as a cashed-up bogan) from Elizabeth buy a Villis's at smoko, but a Bavarian some bratwurst for breakfast. It won't be a decision based on passion, but one made on economics. I'll probably look for the cheapest compromise that delivers a bit of comfort and ability to overtake on the open road.

    About the only passion in the decision will be looking other than 'Holden', because I don't want to contribute to the bean-counters saying they were right, 'Holden' can still sell vehicles in Australia.
    MMMmmm ... Villi's pies ...

    ...anyway, back on topic, I agree with you 100%. While I don't so much consider myself a CUB, I have always been passionate about Holdens because of what they represented.

    I am about to put my hard earned down on my first ever new car, and it will keep the boys and girls at Elizabeth busy for a few more hours. But for my wife, we will probably be replacing her car with something a couple of years old, either European (BMW,Audi) or Japanese (Lexus to Toyota).

    And then, who knows.
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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Have you decided on which wagon you're going to get? Yes, I'm assuming....
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    Re: Holden sales - the Commodore dilemma.

    Not a wagon. It was going to be a wagon until very recently. It was a family decision. A few factors.

    1. The wagon just does not look different enough to the VE. In fact I would argue that the new front works against the wagon rear aesthetically.
    2. In contrast the sedan looks awesome.
    3. No manual. My daughter is on her learners an is a really keen driver. She wants a to get a manual licence and the RX-7 is not really a great place to spend a lot of time learning on the road.
    4. We think we are over the hump of 'needing' a wagon. If it turns out we are wrong, we will reassess before 2017.
    5. My wife has decided she is OK to take over the wagon short term as long as I buy her a reversing camera.
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