VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues - Page 4

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Thread: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by FRENCHY101 View Post
    Even with the second option, will Holden even persist with the Commodore?
    They may do better hobbling along on it for now and perhaps
    relaunch the name on another vehicle if/when available.

    I'm pretty sure that GM will discover the "space between"
    with near car crossovers in the near future, fingers crossed..

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by FRENCHY101 View Post
    Even with the second option, will Holden even persist with the Commodore?
    I'm referring to the Commodore only. Insignia and Regal continue. So whatever happens next year is entirely up to Holden.
    Last edited by GolfBravo; 10-19-2019 at 03:24 PM.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfBravo View Post
    I'm referring to the Commodore only. Insignia and Regal continue. So whatever happens next year is entirely up to Holden.
    They did this a while back too to stop last year build cars arriving in the following year. There are already fleet orders for 2020 Commodore, so not sure what that would mean. I suppose they could transition those sales to another car (unlikely). Typically forward fleet orders are more telling, if they stop them that is usually a bigger sign.

    My crazy punt is a rebadged Cadillac CT5 with new front fascia....
    Last edited by Downandout; 10-19-2019 at 08:03 PM.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Downandout View Post
    They did this a while back too to stop last year build cars arriving in the following year. There are already fleet orders for 2020 Commodore, so not sure what that would mean. I suppose they could transition those sales to another car (unlikely). Typically forward fleet orders are more telling, if they stop them that is usually a bigger sign.

    My crazy punt is a rebadged Cadillac CT5 with new front fascia....
    Expensive.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Here is revised look for new models....
    Just a Corsa face on Insignia. I believe replacement is due 2022 for Opel.




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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    How do you go from 1st to 11th or 12th in 10 years? At some point Holden was expanding, exporting to South Korea and China.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    Here is revised look for new models....
    Just a Corsa face on Insignia. I believe replacement is due 2022 for Opel.

    Where will Buick get its replacement now that Opel is not a part of GM? Sedans are still popular, I think, in the People's Republic of China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Reliance View Post
    How do you go from 1st to 11th or 12th in 10 years? At some point Holden was expanding, exporting to South Korea and China.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    Here is revised look for new models....
    Just a Corsa face on Insignia. I believe replacement is due 2022 for Opel.

    Where will Buick get its replacement now that Opel is not a part of GM? Sedans are still popular, I think, in the People's Republic of China.
    the answer is in the question.
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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Self Reliance View Post
    How do you go from 1st to 11th or 12th in 10 years? At some point Holden was expanding, exporting to South Korea and China.




    Where will Buick get its replacement now that Opel is not a part of GM? Sedans are still popular, I think, in the People's Republic of China.
    Buick may add a line in China, approx 100K/year in China alone
    so why not make there instead of importing from Germany..

    Holden could take RHD version of that car maybe built at
    one in ten or one in twelve down Chinese production line.
    Lower cost centre than high cost Germany (win win.)

    QED

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by hq308 View Post
    As silly as this might sound to some people, this is something that would bring customers back into Holden dealerships.
    Well if there was a company that didnt play to its strengths its Holden. No marketing emphasis on its Australian heritage - no advertising on its design and engineering facilities, its proving grounds... No V8s to harness the significant performance heritage and investment in motorsport.

    The sad thing is, while Holden may struggle with selling econoboxes, the Hyundais and Kias of the world would kill for its history and reputation in the performance space. Holden could sell a V8 Colorado, V8 US pickup or performance RWD sedan tomorrow and they would hit the top of the segments.

    Even towards the end Holden were selling 1,200 V8s a month even in dying segments (sedans, wagons, LWB sedans and 2wd 2 door Utes). Hell if GM can sell the Low Forward Cab with a 6.0 V8, the Colorado should be no problem.

    Last edited by Downandout; 10-21-2019 at 07:29 PM.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Downandout View Post
    Well if there was a company that didnt play to its strengths its Holden. No marketing emphasis on its Australian heritage - no advertising on its design and engineering facilities, its proving grounds... No V8s to harness the significant performance heritage and investment in motorsport.

    The sad thing is, while Holden may struggle with selling econoboxes, the Hyundais and Kias of the world would kill for its history and reputation in the performance space. Holden could sell a V8 Colorado, V8 US pickup or performance RWD sedan tomorrow and they would hit the top of the segments.

    Even towards the end Holden were selling 1,200 V8s a month even in dying segments (sedans, wagons, LWB sedans and 2wd 2 door Utes). Hell if GM can sell the Low Forward Cab with a 6.0 V8, the Colorado should be no problem.

    That is all down to obeying head office.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by chinamonty View Post
    That is all down to obeying head office.
    Holden did better when it was more independent. GMNA only understand cost-cutting and short-term profits.
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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Self Reliance View Post
    Holden did better when it was more independent. GMNA only understand cost-cutting and short-term profits.
    It was more independent in the times of Peter Hannenberger, and doing well, but GMNA didnt like that they were being handed their a$$ on a platter on how to do things properly on a shoestring, so they sent out Denny Mooney to show Holden the 'merican way, and it, well sorta, all went downhill from there.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    I dont know, I think GM US has been pretty good to Holden recently - Holden just needs car people to steer the ship. Trying to make a Kia Junior is not going to work. If Holden pushed a V8 program for Thai Colorado, they could probably get it approved. The V8 is cheaper to make than the diesel, and they could charge an extra few grand over the diesel whilst also selling significantly more cars. Its the segment busting or segment creating risks thats when Holden shone and was the most profitable. A V8 Colorado would suddenly make the $60k 2.8 litre Hiluxes and 2.0 litre Ranger diesels look very pedestrian.

    I just dont think vehicle programs are being pushed. Just feels like Holden has a retail strategy and not a product strategy.
    Last edited by Downandout; 10-22-2019 at 03:04 AM.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Downandout View Post
    I dont know, I think GM US has been pretty good to Holden recently - Holden just needs car people to steer the ship. Trying to make a Kia Junior is not going to work. If Holden pushed a V8 program for Thai Colorado, they could probably get it approved. The V8 is cheaper to make than the diesel, and they could charge an extra few grand over the diesel whilst also selling significantly more cars. Its the segment busting or segment creating risks thats when Holden shone and was the most profitable. A V8 Colorado would suddenly make the $60k 2.8 litre Hiluxes and 2.0 litre Ranger diesels look very pedestrian.

    I just dont think vehicle programs are being pushed. Just feels like Holden has a retail strategy and not a product strategy.
    Holden has no customers, they are all inter linked.

    A V8 doesn't Fit in Colorado - not without contravening GM's Factory ft engine bay tolerance, otherwise HDT and Walkinshaw would already be doing that.
    that and the whole thing would require new crash tests so there's another million bucks.
    Last edited by jpd80; 10-22-2019 at 03:35 AM.

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    Re: VFacts September 2019: Decline Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Holden has no customers, they are all inter linked.

    A V8 doesn't Fit in Colorado - not without contravening GM's Factory ft engine bay tolerance, otherwise HDT and Walkinshaw would already be doing that.
    that and the whole thing would require new crash tests so there's another million bucks.
    V8 fits easily

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