Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed - Page 3

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Thread: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

  1. #31
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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Reading the Opel and Holden press releases side by side, also gives a new perspective on weights. I don't know which is right, but both mention 'up to 200kg lighter' depending on trim - compared to the old Insignia, and I presume old Commodore. That's pretty sloppy in itself - but it also gives an interesting twist or spin on kerb weights. When I compared a VE SV6 in 2012 back to back (next week) to an Insignia diesel wagon, the Insignia was nearly 100kg heavier. Yes, that was the old motor, and 2012 model shell - the 2013 Insignia was lighter IIRC. But, it was also a lot smaller inside.

    I suspect, this is like the Camaro Gen 6 specs, where up to 400lb was claimed is very selective. Yes, if you compared the base I4 to the old SS....... the actual body in white dropped 66lbs, most of which was probably due to it's smaller footprint. A 1SS Camaro is now 3685lb - down from 3860 in Gen V. The engine is 50lb heavier due to DI, compared to the LS3. The rest of the car has extensive lightening to boltons - which you could apply to the Gen V. Given the VF dropped, model-model around 100kg (not counting things like HUD in VF SS-V and Calais, which is 40kg alone), in theory a Gen V with VF-style changes to the structure and underpinnings could have been within 50-60lb, and it's a lot bigger car.

    I would suspect most of the '200kg' in Holden's case is comparing base I4 '17 to something like an SV6 or Calais - maybe even a V8, they don't weight a lot more. The old '16 Sport-tourer with a 2.0 SIDI weighed 1685kg 'minimum' kerb weight. The Evoke Sportwagon scales in at 1717 - and as noted, it's a lot bigger than the old Insignia, and still bigger than the new one. So add AWD to the '17 and I'm tipping, given it's going to be the 'top trim' model it's going to scale within a passenger's weight of an existing VF wagon with a 3.6, and probably about par with the Evoke. Maybe a small boy's weight in it.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    [QUOTE=evanstim;6657890]Does the 'Holden

    Just photoshop.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by MechEng View Post
    Yes make it a Buick, Sell it in North America.

    Make a Voltec version using the full Volt powertrain except with the Malibu Hybrid 1.8L 4cyl. As the Malibu is also on the E2 platform we know it will support it. GM might have to do this to sell it in China anyways.
    Great Ideas!!

    It would make the perfect Buick Electra, especially in an "Lifted" AWD version like the Outback, it does have AWD and Opel did offer the Cross Tour that is similar to the Outback.

    If Buick matches the Outback in seat height and utility, the RegalX/ElectraX will easily become Buick's best sellers and could easily increase Buick sales by 50% to 100% from current levels.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by evanstim View Post
    Does the 'Holden-isation' of it have to be so bloody half-arsed though? It looks like all they have bothered to do is swap the lightening bolt for a lion, ferchristsakes.
    OK. We have been through this already. This is the new Holden. IMHO, this is happening simultaneously with a substantial upgrading of Opel product offerings. Holdens going forward are RHD Opels with Holden badges. Get an Opel, a set of Holden badges, and a screwdriver. Use the screwdriver to pop-out each Opel circled lightening bolt. Place the corresponding Holden Lion in its place. Snap it in.

    I cannot guarantee you that absolutely every new Holden will be a RWD Opel/Vauxhall. However, it is a virtual certainty that every new Holden will be a RHD offering from one of GMs manufacturing divisions.
    Last edited by MisterMe; 02-06-2017 at 11:45 PM.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
    OK. We have been through this already. This is the new Holden. IMHO, this is happening simultaneously with a substantial upgrading of Opel product offerings. Holdens going forward are RWD Opels with Holden badges. Get an Opel, a set of Holden badges, and a screwdriver. Use the screwdriver to pop-out each Opel circled lightening bolt. Place the corresponding Holden Lion in its place. Snap it in.

    I cannot guarantee you that absolutely every new Holden will be a RWD Opel/Vauxhall. However, it is a virtual certainty that every new Holden will be a RHD offering from one of GMs manufacturing divisions.
    I assume you mean AWD not RWD? There are no RWD Opels. At any rate, that is not true: Astra, for example, will be FWD.

    I do not have a problem with Holden selling rebadged Opels; they have been skirting with it since the late 1970s when the Commodore was originally introduced. Who can remember seeing Opel Kadett Ds tearing around Lang Lang and the outback undergoing testing as a replacement for the ancient Gemini? Holden did, finally, in the mid- to late-1990s have a full range of Opel-derived vehicles under the Commodore and Statesman, selling the SB Barina (Corsa B), TS Astra (Astra G), and JS Vectra (Vectra B) - and selling them in huge numbers, enough to keep Holden at the top of the sales charts.

    The problem was, we were told, their European source was too expensive and GM/Holden never made money selling them, despite the numbers they were sold in.

    My problem, is that this is Commodore. The need for a replacement Commodore has been known about for ages. Surely, given the time they had, they could have done more to it than swap the badges? And are we not going to face the same currency issues sourcing them from Europe as we did in the late 1990s?

    In my view, an AWD Buick Lacrosse, sourced from China, with engineering and design modifications led by Holden, would have been a far better Commodore replacement than the Insignia. It even looks more like a Commodore than the Insignia, and, thanks to Chinese origins, would have been able to be priced at a much lower point than a European-sourced Insignia-based Commodore.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by carisi2k9 View Post
    It will never truly be a commodore. It will be a sales flop and by looking at the increased sales of the VF recently the old girl will do much better then this POS.
    Insigniadore preview motivated me to grab my VF II.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
    OK. We have been through this already. This is the new Holden. IMHO, this is happening simultaneously with a substantial upgrading of Opel product offerings. Holdens going forward are RWD Opels with Holden badges. Get an Opel, a set of Holden badges, and a screwdriver. Use the screwdriver to pop-out each Opel circled lightening bolt. Place the corresponding Holden Lion in its place. Snap it in.

    I cannot guarantee you that absolutely every new Holden will be a RWD Opel/Vauxhall. However, it is a virtual certainty that every new Holden will be a RHD offering from one of GMs manufacturing divisions.

    All of this sounds great but just a couple of things


    First show me the RWD Opel


    Second show me the AWD V6 Opel
    Who the hell approved this abomination? Hidden Content

    I bet it was some dumbarse in Detroit Hidden Content

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by evanstim View Post
    Does the 'Holden-isation' of it have to be so bloody half-arsed though? It looks like all they have bothered to do is swap the lightening bolt for a lion, ferchristsakes.
    Just fckn call it an Opel! And if "Opel" failed so badly as a brand locally, this should be launched as the "Vauxhall" Insignia, and let poor Rory die with the teeniest bit of dignity.

    At least "Vauxhall"= RHD "Opel" makes some manufacturing sense.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Why does it have to be a Buick?

    And please, drop an LT4 with a M6.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by evanstim View Post
    I assume you mean AWD not RWD? There are no RWD Opels. At any rate, that is not true: Astra, for example, will be FWD.

    I do not have a problem with Holden selling rebadged Opels; they have been skirting with it since the late 1970s when the Commodore was originally introduced. Who can remember seeing Opel Kadett Ds tearing around Lang Lang and the outback undergoing testing as a replacement for the ancient Gemini? Holden did, finally, in the mid- to late-1990s have a full range of Opel-derived vehicles under the Commodore and Statesman, selling the SB Barina (Corsa B), TS Astra (Astra G), and JS Vectra (Vectra B) - and selling them in huge numbers, enough to keep Holden at the top of the sales charts.

    The problem was, we were told, their European source was too expensive and GM/Holden never made money selling them, despite the numbers they were sold in.

    My problem, is that this is Commodore. The need for a replacement Commodore has been known about for ages. Surely, given the time they had, they could have done more to it than swap the badges? And are we not going to face the same currency issues sourcing them from Europe as we did in the late 1990s?

    In my view, an AWD Buick Lacrosse, sourced from China, with engineering and design modifications led by Holden, would have been a far better Commodore replacement than the Insignia. It even looks more like a Commodore than the Insignia, and, thanks to Chinese origins, would have been able to be priced at a much lower point than a European-sourced Insignia-based Commodore.
    You are correct--I meant RHD Opel. My post has been corrected.

    My post, though, made a point that I have made here in previous posts. There will be no specially designed for Australia Holdens. Building Australia-specific cars offshore would more expensive than building them locally. That's because they still have to be floated halfway around the World to reach the Australian market

    Despite what members of the GMInsider.com fan site see, GM reads sales charts. The sales charts [as of January 2017] show that Holden is Australia's No. 3 best selling brand behind Toyota and Mazda. The two top models sold in January 2017 were the Mazda 3 and the Toyota Corolla. The Holden Commodore recovered its No. 6 position after spending a few months at No. 7.

    It is not credible to claim that Australia needs Holden to sell special cars while the Australia paying customer's two most popular purchases, the Corolla and Mazda 3, are as common as dirt. A discussion about which cars Holden should build or import ignores the changing Australian private vehicle market. Passenger cars are now fighting it out with pick-up trucks and CUVs for sales supremacy. The Toyota Hilux at No. 3 and the Ford Ranger at No. 4 both outsell the Commodore by a wide margin.

    At No. 6 overall, the Commodore is Holden's most popular vehicle. However, Holden's other entries in the Top 25 are a pickup truck, the Holden Colorado (No. 11), and a CUV, the Holden Captiva (No. 15).

    The biggest threat to the rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Insignia Commodore is not whether or not it lives up to the Zeta-based Commodore. The biggest threat is that it may be a beautiful midsize sedan at a time when the buying public has moved on to small cars, pickup trucks, and CUVs.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by SS1LE02 View Post
    Why does it have to be a Buick?

    And please, drop an LT4 with a M6.
    You realize it's a FWD E2xx platform?

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
    You are correct--I meant RHD Opel. My post has been corrected.

    My post, though, made a point that I have made here in previous posts. There will be no specially designed for Australia Holdens. Building Australia-specific cars offshore would more expensive than building them locally. That's because they still have to be floated halfway around the World to reach the Australian market

    Despite what members of the GMInsider.com fan site see, GM reads sales charts. The sales charts [as of January 2017] show that Holden is Australia's No. 3 best selling brand behind Toyota and Mazda. The two top models sold in January 2017 were the Mazda 3 and the Toyota Corolla. The Holden Commodore recovered its No. 6 position after spending a few months at No. 7.

    It is not credible to claim that Australia needs Holden to sell special cars while the Australia paying customer's two most popular purchases, the Corolla and Mazda 3, are as common as dirt. A discussion about which cars Holden should build or import ignores the changing Australian private vehicle market. Passenger cars are now fighting it out with pick-up trucks and CUVs for sales supremacy. The Toyota Hilux at No. 3 and the Ford Ranger at No. 4 both outsell the Commodore by a wide margin.

    At No. 6 overall, the Commodore is Holden's most popular vehicle. However, Holden's other entries in the Top 25 are a pickup truck, the Holden Colorado (No. 11), and a CUV, the Holden Captiva (No. 15).

    The biggest threat to the rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Insignia Commodore is not whether or not it lives up to the Zeta-based Commodore. The biggest threat is that it may be a beautiful midsize sedan at a time when the buying public has moved on to small cars, pickup trucks, and CUVs.


    Explain the V6 AWD NG Commodore then

    there are no Insignia with the V6
    Who the hell approved this abomination? Hidden Content

    I bet it was some dumbarse in Detroit Hidden Content

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by evanstim View Post
    Does the 'Holden-isation' of it have to be so bloody half-arsed though? It looks like all they have bothered to do is swap the lightening bolt for a lion, ferchristsakes.
    Be grateful - they could have just used a Vauxhall Griffin and hope you didn't notice!

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by VS Ute 5Litre View Post
    Explain the V6 AWD NG Commodore then

    there are no Insignia with the V6
    It's the same with the last gen Astra. In Europe, the top engine was the 1.6T whereas the Buick Verano offers a 2.0T in NA and China. Only the Astra GTC in OPC trim level had one too, but it is a different engine to the one from Buick.
    Last edited by Toto; 02-07-2017 at 04:24 AM.

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    Re: Next Gen Commodore Wagon Revealed

    Quote Originally Posted by Toto View Post
    It's the same with the last gen Astra. In Europe, the top engine was the 1.6T whereas the Buick Verano offers a 2.0T in NA and China. Only the Astra GTC in OPC trim level had one too, but it is a different engine to the one from Buick.
    Europe had the 2.0 Bi-turbo diesel as well - more power than the 1.6T petrol with nearly double the torque.

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