Rumor: Mercedes to Replace E550 TTV8 with E400 TTV6

[dslay04]

Motortrend

Looks like Cadillac is going to beat them to the punch

[Sal Collaziano]

I don't really think this is going to happen the way Motortrend is portraying it. The 402 horsepower E550 replacement would be getting an engine with under 330 horsepower - while the E350, which would still exist, would have 302. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

I really doubt Mercedes-Benz will take such a plunge with BMW still having a 400 horsepower 550i and a brand new (probably more than) 400 horsepower Cadillac CTS. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They see what happened to Cadillac trying out the WEAK V6 thing with their midsize and how they're responding to that. I'm sure even Lexus will eventually come to their senses and bring a 400 horsepower GS to the table.

[dslay04]

I don't really think this is going to happen the way Motortrend is portraying it. The 402 horsepower E550 replacement would be getting an engine with under 330 horsepower - while the E350, which would still exist, would have 302. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

I really doubt Mercedes-Benz will take such a plunge with BMW still having a 400 horsepower 550i and a brand new (probably more than) 400 horsepower Cadillac CTS. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They see what happened to Cadillac trying out the WEAK V6 thing with their midsize and how they're responding to that. I'm sure even Lexus will eventually come to their senses and bring a 400 horsepower GS to the table.

I think the ratings are on the low side

[Sal Collaziano]

I think the ratings are on the low side

If the V6 has 370 horsepower or more, it'll make sense. Otherwise, they'd be handing sales to other brands.

[Mr. Burns]

I don't really think this is going to happen the way Motortrend is portraying it. The 402 horsepower E550 replacement would be getting an engine with under 330 horsepower - while the E350, which would still exist, would have 302. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

I really doubt Mercedes-Benz will take such a plunge with BMW still having a 400 horsepower 550i and a brand new (probably more than) 400 horsepower Cadillac CTS. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They see what happened to Cadillac trying out the WEAK V6 thing with their midsize and how they're responding to that. I'm sure even Lexus will eventually come to their senses and bring a 400 horsepower GS to the table.

V8s are dying in this segment. Internet forum desirability doesn't change that over 90% of the cars sold in this segment have a V6. Lexus won't bring a V8 to the GS (unless it's in a GS-F), and eventually I see the Germans dropping their V8s as well. And we already know Cadillac won't be offering a V8 either.

[Mr. Burns]

I don't really think this is going to happen the way Motortrend is portraying it. The 402 horsepower E550 replacement would be getting an engine with under 330 horsepower - while the E350, which would still exist, would have 302. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

I really doubt Mercedes-Benz will take such a plunge with BMW still having a 400 horsepower 550i and a brand new (probably more than) 400 horsepower Cadillac CTS. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They see what happened to Cadillac trying out the WEAK V6 thing with their midsize and how they're responding to that. I'm sure even Lexus will eventually come to their senses and bring a 400 horsepower GS to the table.

V8s are dying in this segment. Internet forum desirability doesn't change that over 90% of the cars sold in this segment have a V6. Lexus won't bring a V8 to the GS (unless it's in a GS-F), and eventually I see the Germans dropping their V8s as well. And we already know Cadillac likely won't be offering a V8 either in the next CTS.

[Michael_S]

V8s are dying in this segment. Internet forum desirability doesn't change that over 90% of the cars sold in this segment have a V6. Lexus won't bring a V8 to the GS (unless it's in a GS-F), and eventually I see the Germans dropping their V8s as well. And we already know Cadillac won't be offering a V8 either.

I don't think the lack of V8 is the issue, it's the power rating. It would seem odd for Mercedes to join the turbo 6-cylinder move by replacing their current V8 with a turbo 6 making so much less power.

If Mercedes were, for example, to offer two turbo 6s, one with the rating in the article and another closer to the outgoing V8, then I think it would make sense.

[Amphibian]

If these "sources" noted in the article below are to be believed, Mercedes is testing out extremely high hp/liter turbo'd engines. Now that's referring to an AMG and if true it'd be an insane 185 hp/liter. Even if they did a strong 135 hp/liter like GM's 2.0T in the Regal GS from a mere 3.0L V-6, we're talking current MB twin-turbo V-8 horsepower ... in other words, more than 400 horsepower.

It's very possible we'll see turbo'd 6-bangers replace the majority of V-8s in this segment over the course of this decade, but I scarcely believe we need to be concerned about losing out on performance. V-8 noise though, sadly, we might. I have doubts MB will replace their superb V-8 with a V-6 making so much less horsepower (not impossible, but rather doubtful).

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/13/m...-hp-per-liter/

[mgescuro]

I don't really think this is going to happen the way Motortrend is portraying it. The 402 horsepower E550 replacement would be getting an engine with under 330 horsepower - while the E350, which would still exist, would have 302. That doesn't seem to make much sense.

I really doubt Mercedes-Benz will take such a plunge with BMW still having a 400 horsepower 550i and a brand new (probably more than) 400 horsepower Cadillac CTS. They didn't get to where they are by being stupid. They see what happened to Cadillac trying out the WEAK V6 thing with their midsize and how they're responding to that. I'm sure even Lexus will eventually come to their senses and bring a 400 horsepower GS to the table.

Mercedes could just drop the S550's V8 into the E550, giving it an extra 27HP.

So... E300 BlueTec, E350, E400, E550, E63, E63 "S."

It works. It's similar to how Jaguar aligns the XF.

[YEH]

V8s are dying in this segment. Internet forum desirability doesn't change that over 90% of the cars sold in this segment have a V6. Lexus won't bring a V8 to the GS (unless it's in a GS-F), and eventually I see the Germans dropping their V8s as well. And we already know Cadillac won't be offering a V8 either.

Not really.

Lexus just had trouble selling V8 equipped GSs.

BMW and MB still sell enough V8 5 and E to make it worth their while.

[Mr. Burns]

Not really.

Lexus just had trouble selling V8 equipped GSs.

BMW and MB still sell enough V8 5 and E to make it worth their while.

Do you have MB and BMW 550i and E550 sales numbers as a percentage of total sales to support your statement?

[dslay04]

Do you have MB and BMW 550i and E550 sales numbers as a percentage of total sales to support your statement?

Most likely less than 20%. Probably gives a bit of a halo affect though.

[YEH]

Do you have MB and BMW 550i and E550 sales numbers as a percentage of total sales to support your statement?

Inside Line had a breakdown on V8 sales in the midsize luxury segment a while ago where the V8 take rate for MB and BMW hovered around 12-16%, but the link to that graph no longer works.

Considering how many E and 5 MB and BMW sell, it's still a healthy figure.

At the time, the V8 take rate for the Genesis was around 45%, but since then has dropped to 30-35% due to the V6 with increased power.

The V8 take rate for the GS was in the single digits and the GS only sells a portion of what the E and 5 do.

[baloo]

The purpose of the E400 is to compete with the 535i and A6 3.0T, not to replace the V8 model. If it was intended to replace the V8, it'd be making substantially more than 330 hp, and they definitely wouldn't call it E400, because how are they going to charge E550 money for something that's obviously much lower down the ladder?

Besides, they already have facelifted V8 models on the road in mule form.

[germeezy1]

If anything this is a way for the E class to realign with the XF, and the Audi A6 with an engine between the base engine, and the V8 engine. It will not replace the E550 because Mercedes although a bit lost it seems would not cede an entire low volume but very profitable market to BMW, and Audi.

BMW 528i, 535i, 550i, M5

Audi A6 2.0T, A6 3.0T, S6, RS6

MB E350,E400, E550, E63


Cadillac will also match them in every way I believe but it is unfortunate that the CTS top non V series engine will be a quite deplorable ( in comparison to the a smooth latently powerful V8) forced induction V6

Cadillac CTS 2.0T, CTS 3.6, CTS 3.6T , CTS-V