Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

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Thread: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

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    Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Lol, just as Cadillac gets the ball rolling on diesel engines, the VW debacle has Mercedes getting ready to leave the market.

    Mercedes’ image, especially in Europe, is associated with the diesel engine, with which the brand has been intrinsically linked since the late 1930s – the Three Pointed Star was one of the pioneers in passenger car diesels.

    Now, though, a report published over on Autoblog suggests the automaker is looking to slowly ditch diesels, then follow Lexus and only offer hybrids as the fuel saving alternative.
    More at link.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Mercedes was probably considering this long before the scandal, but now that fellow Germans VW and BMW are under fire, Stuttgart figured now was as good a time as any to make their move.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by ocmdog View Post
    Mercedes was probably considering this long before the scandal, but now that fellow Germans VW and BMW are under fire, Stuttgart figured now was as good a time as any to make their move.
    Yea, the article says that it was something underway for a while, but now it's in full stride. Outside of a diesel Escalade for the towing crowd, I think Cadillac would be wise to capitalize on Voltech as opposed to developing engines in an area they have zero credibility/reputation in. When (old) ppl hear diesel Cadillac, they think of the old, terrible engines of the 70s and 80s.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    It's funny how Toyota's long-standing strategy to develop and stick to hybrids is paying out.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    The good thing for GM is that they are a lot stronger in electrics than the Germans are. Sounds like the Germans haven't been able to produce a decent start/stop tech let alone something like the Volt. GM needs to engineer in the Volt system into Cadillac's before the Germans perfect theirs and make a name for themselves.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    I never understood the love of diesels in cars America once the Hybrid solution came about. It allowed for better or similar fuel savings, money saving, and no need to hunt for a gas station selling the sludge.

    Voltec effectively takes it to the next level

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by ih8slowcars View Post
    It's funny how Toyota's long-standing strategy to develop and stick to hybrids is paying out.
    Toyota is fun to hate, but they deserve credit for daring greatly with the first Prius and sticking behind it. They had a strategy, were convinced it was best, and have been slugging away at it for over a decade. Now they might be poised to reap some big rewards; a good chunk of it is thanks to VW messing up, but either way, they're laughing today.
    Last edited by paul8488; 09-25-2015 at 12:06 PM.
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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by MiatsoCi View Post
    I never understood the love of diesels in cars America once the Hybrid solution came about. It allowed for better or similar fuel savings, money saving, and no need to hunt for a gas station selling the sludge.

    Voltec effectively takes it to the next level
    a VW diesel offers the SAME or better fuel economy as a hybrid with out as much cost or the LOSS of interior space AND has bean around and "perfected" when hybrids where in there infancy
    and the VOLT does NOT "take it to the next level" for a LOT of people for example apartment dwellers that CAN NOT plug there car in

    in point it is a DIFFERENT "SOLUTION to the same PROBLEM"

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Look, the VW situation will probably help the other car companies. They can say that their diesels do everything the right way. Truly clean. There are plenty of folks that want them. VWs diesel business is probably toast, though.
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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    I think VW will dump alot more money into development and come out on the other end. Look how many cars GM continued to sell during its scandal.
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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Comical.

    Add it to the pile of unattributed spin and BS, of which @ least a solid half appears preplanned and most all of which appears co ordinated.


    Unattributed rumour mongering and nothing more - or less.


    The massive market place fail with electrification to date in spite of all the rigging, coupled with certain developments and around the corner legislation in all categories meant we were coming into what was likely to be a different outcome than some wanted. Including a realistically possible Diesel Renaissance of a sort.


    And oh yeah, I really said that. One of the big drivers with that that American media somehow does not seem to know about has to do with two things - coming together.

    1.) Advanced / Better BioDiesel sourcing which among many other things can provide a better CI fuel including and especially so with regard to lower EM along with higher FE, but also in a truly Carbon neutral Fuel production and use chain.


    And no, so far, you cannot do that as cheaply nor do that as well for Gassers / SI.

    VW is a big part of this effort.


    Gasser Electrification via battery needs all this to - 'not happen'.


    2. ) Gassers and all that use a gasser section are about to have their own little truth party concerning EM and FE etc. This was coming and known to be coming well more than a year or so ahead of this VW Fiasco. Gasser Toxicity factors and some other things related are not going to be given a full pass as they have been since day 1 essentially. Yes, there are powerful interests attempting to shape that a certain way but now, the ball is up for grabs.

    In addition , and this is now inevitably also going to be ramped up even more robustly and more quickly than anyone would have thought possible just two weeks ago, SERIOUS removal of much of the gaming allowed here and there is going to be vaporized. A solid half was the thought ahead of the Fiasco - count on it, that will be tightened even more and more quickly one way or another.


    Thankfully, given the never ending efforts against it, Diesel gets a well earned push from all the Carbon reduction efforts.

    Here is how one Savvy OEM / PM / PT provider who plays across the entire PT spectrum successfully calls it -



    BMW: “We don’t cheat”; diesel is needed to hit CO2 targets; call for WLTP and RDE
    25 September 2015

    As the Volkswagen emission testing scandal threatens to spill over onto other automakers, BMW yesterday issued a sharp statement in response to a report in Auto Bild suggesting emissions from an X3 test were out of the norm.

    “The BMW Group does not manipulate or rig any emissions tests. We observe the legal requirements in each country and fulfill all local testing requirements. In other words, our exhaust treatment systems are active whether rolling on the test bench or driving on the road. Clear, binding specifications and processes are in place through all phases of development at the BMW Group in order to avoid wrongdoing.”

    BMW noted that in two studies carried out by the ICCT, results confirmed that the BMW X5 and 13 other BMW vehicles tested comply with the legal requirements concerning NOx emissions. No discrepancies were found in the X5 between laboratory-test and field-test NOx emissions.

    BMW said it was not familiar with test results that would suggest otherwise.


    The company said it was contacting the ICCT and asking for clarification of the test referenced by the press report.

    BMW further said that it would discuss testing procedures with the relevant authorities and make its vehicles available for testing at any time.

    BMW also took the opportunity to speak strongly in support of diesel in the context of the coming 2020 emission targets in Europe.

    Policymakers worldwide, and in particular in the European Union, are setting tough standards for CO2 and other emissions. The 2020 targets in Europe can only be fulfilled through extensive use of modern diesel engines and further electrification.

    The progress achieved so far in CO2 reduction in Europe is largely due to the use of diesel technology. Meeting future requirements will not be feasible without diesel drive trains, since a diesel engine emits roughly 15 to 20% less CO2 on average than a comparable petrol engine.

    At the BMW Group, we have invested a great deal in recent years in refining and optimizing diesel technology as part of our EfficientDynamics program. At BMW, diesel vehicles accounted for 38% of vehicles sold worldwide last year: Europe 80%; Germany 73%; US 6%. This represents approx. 20,000 vehicles in the US in 2014.

    The Euro 6 emissions standard, which took effect on 1 September 2015 and is binding for all new vehicle registrations, improves both environmental and consumer protection.

    To bridge the gap between test results and real-life fuel consumption and emissions, the European Union is working on a new test cycle (WLTP) and an emissions test for real driving situations, known as “real driving emissions” or RDE.

    We support the swift introduction of the new regulations to create clarity for consumers and the industry as quickly as possible.

    © 2004-2015 Green Car Congress

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015...50925-bmw.html

    And just where does the real opposition to WLTP and RDE come from - and for what type of vehicles and PTs ?????


    Very much related -

    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015...ope-to-40.html
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 09-25-2015 at 03:30 PM.
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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by MiatsoCi View Post
    I never understood the love of diesels in cars America once the Hybrid solution came about. It allowed for better or similar fuel savings, money saving, and no need to hunt for a gas station selling the sludge.

    Voltec effectively takes it to the next level
    You do realize how expensive petrol is in Europe?
    Even diesel isn't that cheap.

    I drove almost 500 miles this summer from Avignon to Monaco on about 2/3rds tank of gas. It was cheaper for me to pay the gas penalty at rental car place than actually go out and pay for diesel.

    It's eye opening. But I was more surprised at the range I was able to get.


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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    GM at this point seems to be the only automaker with a compliant diesel, a voltec solution, a full electric solution (in-house developed) and owns the only battery chemical technology outside of LG and panasonic and drive systems to everything. BMW and Mercedes use GM two mode technology and Honda is using GM Hydrogens technology.
    They used their V motori ownership to develop in-house knowhow and their partnership with Isuzu on the other side also comes in handy.

    GM should maintain improving on all the technologies they have available.


    Their RD is stella, and Sergio knows it.
    Last edited by mbukukanyau; 09-25-2015 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    Toyota ?

    Irony ?

    Those that be not able .... still have to show up anyway -

    Just look at that, a more than weakish 2.8L I4 TD in a ..... Land Cruiser.


    Toyota Land Cruiser in Europe offers new 2.8L diesel; first Toyota SCR NOx aftertreatment system

    22 September 2015


    Toyota’s Land Cruiser off-road 4WD vehicle in Europe is now available with a new 2.8 liter D-4D turbo-diesel. The engine replaces the current 3.0-liter engine, with a focus on improved driveability with better torque delivery, plus lower fuel consumption and reduced CO2 emissions. It delivers 130 kW/177 DIN hp @ 3400 rpm and can be mated to a 6-speed manual gearbox or a new 6-speed automatic transmission.

    Available on 3-door and 5-door models, Toyota’s newly developed 2.8 D-4D Global Diesel (GD) engine combines an 11% increase in low speed torque and a 7% increase in maximum torque with a 9% reduction in average fuel consumption. The engine features Toyota’s first urea Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system that can eliminate up to 99% of NOx emissions.


    The new 2,755 cc, 16 valve, DOHC four-cylinder engine comes equipped with a new, variable nozzle turbocharger with intercooler.

    Mated to the new 6-speed Super ECT automatic transmission, the 2.8 D-4D develops 370 N·m (273 lb-ft) of torque at only 1,200 rpm, and a maximum 450 N·m (332 lb-ft) of torque between 1,600 and 2,400 rpm.

    It will accelerate from 0-100 km/h in 12.7 seconds, and on to a top speed of 175 km/h. Average fuel consumption and CO2 emissions are reduced by 9% to 7.4 l/100 km (32 mpg US)—7.2 l/100 km (33 mpg US) for 3-door—and 194 g/km (190 g/km for 3-door) respectively.

    When mated to the 6-speed manual transmission, the Land Cruiser 2.8 D-4D develops maximum of 420 N·m (310 lb-ft) of torque between 1,400 and 2,400 rpm. It will accelerate from 0-100 km/h in 12.1 seconds, and on to a top speed of 175 km/h while returning an average fuel consumption of 7.4 l/100 km (7.2 l/100 km for 3-door) and CO2 emissions of 194 g/km (190 g/km for 3-door).

    The new 2.8 D-4D engine incorporates a comprehensive range of measures designed to save weight, enhance combustion efficiency and reduce friction.

    A resin head cover has been adopted, and the thickness of the entire cylinder head has been reduced. The resultant weight reduction contributes significantly to improving fuel efficiency.

    The efficiency of the intake and exhaust ports, and the fuel injection system, has been optimized to maximise torque. Two intake ports are used in unison, according to the engine speed: a tangential port that produces a high swirl flow, agitating the air/fuel mixture to enhance combustion efficiency, and a helical port that achieves a high flow volume.

    The engine features an electronically controlled, common-rail type fuel injection system that achieves higher pressure and more advanced injection pressure control. A new piston shape has been adopted to match the new shape of the combustion chamber.

    Precise pilot injection matching the state of the ambient air occurs before the main injection to shorten ignition delay, combining stable combustion in even the world’s harshest environments with quiet operation and high thermal efficiency.

    The new turbocharger is 30% smaller than its predecessor and features a newly-developed turbine for improved efficiency, and a newly-developed impeller that provides instantaneous acceleration response and produces maximum torque over a wide rev range.

    The unit is equipped with a water-cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system with an EGR cooler bypass function, and also benefits from a swirl control valve in the intake manifold.

    The adjacent positioning of the catalyst combines cleaner performance with a reduction in size of some 30% and a reduction in the number of exhaust system components from 18 to just three. The elimination of up to 99% of NOx emissions through use of Toyota’s urea Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system ensures the 2.8 D-4D Land Cruiser complies with Euro 6 regulations.

    Mechanical friction within the engine has been minimized through the adoption of a high-efficiency vacuum pump, a roller rocker-type valve train and a low friction timing chain, further improving combustion efficiency.

    The 2.8 D-4D engine is mated to a 6-speed Super intelligent Electronically Controlled automatic Transmission (6 Super ECT) which benefits from several new control systems designed to improve both fuel economy and driving performance.

    High-speed Gear Effective Utilisation Control determines the availability of high-speed gears in real time according to driving conditions. For instance, taking into account vehicle loading and throttle setting, the system will determine whether 6th gear is available or the vehicle should remain in 5th to achieve the optimum balance of driving power and fuel efficiency.

    Deceleration Downshift Control optimises downshifts when decelerating to improve fuel efficiency. The fuel supply is automatically cut off during periods of engine braking, unless engine speed drops to the low rpm threshold, when fuel injection is resumed to prevent engine stalling. Accordingly, the transmission maximises engine braking by selecting a lower gear to prevent engine speed dropping below the low rpm threshold, thus extending fuel cut off periods to drastically enhance fuel economy. -


    -----


    More @ the link



    © 2004-2015 Green Car Congress


    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015...22-toyota.html
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 09-25-2015 at 02:28 PM.
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    Re: Mercedes to Ditch Diesels

    I don't see Mercedes being officially accused in this Dieselgate scandal..but maybe i've missed it.. it seems even Opel is accused (but that is from some car magazine if i remember) and Opel is part of GM.

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