You get to rebuild Lincoln!

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Thread: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

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    You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    I always enjoy the Lincoln threads here at GMI, though many of the posts regarding Lincoln's current state I find to be very unrealistic given the circumstances. Given there are many posters here that I respect, and I at least get a kick out of the rest of ya, I figured it would be interesting to get your opinions on what Ford should have done. I'm going to throw in a few ground rules to keep the pie in the sky foolishness at bay, or at least make it obvious why I'm pointing and laughing!

    1. Ford did not even commit to keeping Lincoln until late 2012, thus all recovery plans must take that timeline, along with Ford's then available platforms into account. So no, the old, very old DEW platform is already long gone so don't even go there.

    2. All the previous Premier Auto Group companies and products are gone.

    3. You cannot just drain all of FMC's profits for Lincoln development, the mothership has to remain healthy too.

    4. You go into this understanding that the damaged Lincoln brand cannot be revived overnight.

    So, you have CD4, the outgoing old Volvo based D4, and an old Navigator and nothing new platform wise on the near horizon other than the new aluminum Navigator. Shutting Lincoln down is not an option, how do you revive it?

    If this isn't the ultimate arm chair CEO thread I don't know what is!

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    here's a banner for your FiN-annex program, SP

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    I'd throw some money into the Mustang chassis, certainly they can stretch it to build an E Class size and definitely a C Class size. Keep it comfort oriented, but no "seen it before styling". The CUV's are ok as is, but again they need to start developing some kind of styling characteristic that is distinctively Lincoln. All that can keep everyone interested while they save up their money for a large, S Class size car.

    Good idea for a thread SP1966!

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Quote Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    __a few ground rules__
    1. post-2012 to Now
    ...think the main diff I'd like to see (in my alternate-reaiiTV) is to have
    a. unified on Max Wolff's horizontal-slat split-wing grille ASAP, maybe by the Next modelyear
    b. OR, let Max do whatever it was he wanted (which was NOT to unify) Would really like to know what else he had in mind!!
    re: 3. cannot drain all of FMC's profits
    grille inserts are way cheaper to change than sheetmetal, let-alone structures/platforms
    otoh
    c.
    I'd have LOVED to bring out the Navi-MCE one year earlier than it was
    d. Would have built an MKZ-Energi plug-in ...possibly IN STEAD OF for the Fusion(=hybrid-only)
    &
    e.
    Would have made the Focus-Electric (pure-BEV) a Lincoln InStead
    (since Ford didn't really want to sell (m)any anyways)...and a few extra thou $,$$$ for material upgrades would've been no problem imho

    think that's about it to the Present ^ since I fully agree spending multi-10s-of billions** would have been mostly wasted

    1ª. post-Now to 2020
    ...more later but first:
    'replace' the MKT with my "MKXLG" = MKX skin basically grafted over the Flex


    ** no names / no names necessary
    Last edited by 2b2; 03-20-2016 at 08:32 PM.
    re: EV styling
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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    I like GTP's idea. The Mustang chassis is not a work of art, but at least it will give Lincoln a car with proper proportions. Make the ride plush, the handling decent, beautiful interior and exterior, and great technology. There you have a car that will represent the new era of Lincoln.

    I would announce new plans for a new RWD platform just to leave people interested in the brand, take the current platforms and make vehicles with the best interiors in the business and beautiful exterior. Those products will make good profits for when the new rwd vehicles come. They won't be the best, but people will not ignore the brand.

    I agree with the the strategy of making better dealers and improving customer service that Lincoln is implementing. This is vital for a new luxury car brand.

    My dream Lincoln lineup would be more Mercedes than BMW. Luxury over everything, good handling, and beautifull understated design with great proportions. A new Lincoln Continental the size of a yacht with craftsmanship that's only rivaled by Rolls Royce and Bentley. A guy can dream.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit."
    - Aristotle

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Ok, I'll play. Lincoln at its best had distinct, clean and understated styling (think the early 60s Continentals) often with international influences, good over-the-road performance (the 50s road race cars) and an American approach to luxury (lots of technology and conveniences).

    Given the current platforms and powertrains, I'd say that Lincoln should:

    - Emphasize smaller displacement, turbocharged motors in unique Lincoln displacements and, ideally, Lincoln tuning. These should be smooth, torquey and quiet prime movers.

    - Should make the AWD system that's debuted on the Focus RS standard on every Lincoln. A lot of this market is AWD anyway and if Lincoln is stuck using existing Ford platforms, this adds a dimension that opens up the door to more powerful motors while emphasising all-weather capabilities. It works for Audi (and Subaru).

    - Get the lastest transmission tech into Lincoln's first then trickle down to Fords.

    As Lincoln progresses the two biggest priorities on its roadmap should be:

    - Autonomous driving. If they aren't going to be a performance focused brand, they should be a leader in driver assistants.
    - Electrification. They need a good performing hybrid and electric vehicles on the roadmap pronto or they are going to quickly get left behind by Mercedes, Cadillac (Supercruise is coming and the Bolt indicates GM could do a solid Cadillac BEV if it chooses) and BMW.

    So, given the bits today, I'd say that short of the Navigator, they seem to have a solid collection of CUVs. What they could do is:

    - An AWD compact sedan/coupe. Based on the bits from the Focus RS (AWD) and with a four cylinder 2.3 turbo tuned for about 300 hp running through (and this is a gap at Ford) an appropriate autobox. Distinctive styling, good ride/handling tradeoff and all the mod-cons. Price it slightly under the Audi A3/Mercedes CLA.

    - An AWD mid sized -- we'll, they've got this covered already with the MKZ. Here's the key here: don't do a FWD version. Make AWD standard across the board. Engines would be 2.3T, 2.7T and 3.0T. Keep the giant sunroof option!

    - An AWD big sedan: already covered in the Continental. Ditch the n/a FWD versions. This car really needs a supercruise-like option as soon as the CT6 has it. Get on it.

    -- Luxury coupe/convertible. Use the Mustang platform, ideally with a longer wheelbase to provide a bit more room to make this a four-place car. It can be a bit more formal and upright than the Mustang. Think out of the box here on powertrains: don't do a V8. Use a retuned version of the Ford GT/Raptor motor tuned for big torque. The new 10-speed transmission would be great here. No, volume won't be high (especially for the convertible) but the marque needs a halo. Don't call it a Mark ... it's not really that kind of car and the current nomenclature makes it too confusing anyway. Maybe time for a new name.

    That gives you small, medium and large sedans; two coupes (small and largish-medium), a convertible and three CUVs + a big SUV. Not a terrible start.

    They key would be what they do next. They'd really need to leap in terms of technology to keep up with where the market is going. Volvo (!), Cadillac and Mercedes are promising fairly hands/feet free driving in some conditions very soon; Tesla is delivering that today. Lincoln better be prepared to be a player in this space (especially given their branding) within the next two years or so and aim to be among the leaders. Similarly, electric propulsion offer smooth, torquey power delivery that is becoming expected for luxury cars. Whether its through a Tesla-like BEV or a BMW i8-like hybrid set up, Lincoln needs to be prepared to play in this space as well. Cadillac may seem focused on traditional supercharged and turbocharged ICEs, but GM has the expertise to pivot to other solutions if that's what's needed for Cadillac. Again, Lincoln has about five years (maybe) to establish itself as a credible player in this space. Ford has build electric and hybrid cars too (Focus BEV; C-Max hybrid and plug-in) ... it needs to leverage this expertise quickly at the upper end of the market where people can afford to pay for the technology IF it offers an interesting and unique experience and performance/efficiency payoff.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Use longitudinal engines in all your FWD platforms until a true RWD one is ready. Tie the Mustang, GT, and Lincoln development at this hip. Share the same engines. Let the FPC voodoo engine come to Lincoln.

    Create models based off of the Mustang platform until a true Lincoln platform is ready. Build MKR, 4 door coupe, maybe a roadster.

    MKB based on the Focus to fight the A3 & CLA.

    Stop with the atennae that sticks out like a pickup truck. That has to be one of the laziest design features that practically everybody else has replaced decades ago.

    Why is there not a Lincoln based on the Focus EV? They had the Focus EV like 5 years ago
    Last edited by dslay04; 03-20-2016 at 09:58 PM.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    here's a banner for your FiN-annex program, SP

    Judging by the traffic, I'd say that FordInsideNews IS the Annex.
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    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. "

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    ^ :grinch:
    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    1. post-2012 to Now
    grille inserts are way cheaper to change than sheetmetal, let-alone structures/platforms...
    forgot explicitly mention: Preventing the (true-baleen) grille inserts used on the MKS & MKT MCEs
    ...tho that is part of "a."


    Quote Originally Posted by LetsRace View Post
    ...I would announce new plans for a new RWD platform just to leave people interested in the brand, take the current platforms and make vehicles with the best interiors in the business and beautiful exterior. Those products will make good profits for when the new rwd vehicles come. They won't be the best, but people will not ignore the brand...
    they're already doing/working on these imho

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsRace View Post
    ...My dream Lincoln lineup would be more Mercedes than BMW. Luxury over everything, good handling, and beautifull understated design with great proportions. A new Lincoln Continental the size of a yacht with craftsmanship that's only rivaled by Rolls Royce and Bentley. A guy can dream.
    the 2 I lighlighted as for CONTRAST, right?
    imho MB has Nothing to do with "understated"
    Last edited by 2b2; 03-20-2016 at 10:34 PM.
    re: EV styling
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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    ^ :grinch:
    Hardly. I'd say observant.
    "The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. "

    W.B. Yeats- 1919



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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Use longitudinal engines in all your FWD platforms until a true RWD one is ready.
    What you're talking about would be re-engineering CD4 which would be no easy task, nor would it truly benefit Lincoln at this early stage. They wouldn't have had it ready for the MKZ, the MKC and MKX as CUVs don't need it, that leaves the Continental which is meant to raise the bar, not set it. The benefit would be small if even that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Tie the Mustang, GT, and Lincoln development at this hip.
    Agree 100%!

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Share the same engines. Let the FPC voodoo engine come to Lincoln.
    Disagree 100%! A Lincoln cannot just be the new Cougar, there has to be real, more than skin deep differentiation. And finally, Voodoo doesn't belong anywhere near Lincoln, it's an awesome engine, but it's not refined, it's not a smooth engine and no Lincoln should vibrate like a Harley.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Create models based off of the Mustang platform until a true Lincoln platform is ready. Build MKR, 4 door coupe, maybe a roadster.
    There is only so much that could be done between 2012 and S550's 2014 launch, the idea that they could produce multiple cars is highly unlikely, and would be expensive in both cost and development timeline. The results would have been compromised, so I'm fine with focusing on S650, and I believe Lincoln is the driving force behind the S550's early end of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    MKB based on the Focus to fight the A3 & CLA.
    A low rent Focus based Lincoln is IMO the last thing Lincoln needs at this point. The A3 and CLA sell on brand reputation, Lincoln sell in spite of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Stop with the atennae that sticks out like a pickup truck. That has to be one of the laziest design features that practically everybody else has replaced decades ago.
    Other than the big opening glass roofed MKZ no Lincoln has one.

    Quote Originally Posted by dslay04 View Post
    Why is there not a Lincoln based on the Focus EV? They had the Focus EV like 5 years ago
    Because the tech wasn't ready for the Focus with only 100 mile range, not exactly what you open with for Lincoln. Being an early tech adopter is great when the tech you adopt is ready for prime time, and even then as we saw with the ELR, it's still a big risk. The Focus EV was even more compromised than the ELR and they were right to not do a Lincoln version.
    Last edited by SP1966; 03-20-2016 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Just some quick thoughts on how we go from here to much better:

    1. Build MKC, MKX, MKZ and Continental in a Lincoln plant.
    That would free up more production space in Ford's high volume plants
    as well as allowing Lincoln the latitude of a quality focused plant that
    could control its suppliers and product cycles independent of Ford timings.
    The only exception, leave Navigator at Kentucky Truck Plant.

    2. Develop one new RWD/AWD platform to suit all Lincoln cars and Utes
    including MKC, a coupe, MKX, MKZ, and MKT/Aviator.
    Build all of them at one plant, control everything start to finish.

    That AWD/RWD platform may or may not be shared with other Ford product,
    it really doesn't matter if Lincoln has three cars and three utes off the thing,
    that would be a major accomplishment, especially if it was all Aluminum...
    Last edited by jpd80; 03-21-2016 at 12:09 AM.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Just some quick thoughts on how we go from here to much better:

    1. Build MKC, MKX, MKZ and Continental in a Lincoln plant.
    That would free up more production space in Ford's high volume plants
    as well as allowing Lincoln the latitude of a quality focused plant that
    could control its suppliers and product cycles independent of Ford timings.
    The only exception, leave Navigator at Kentucky Truck Plant.
    If that could be done on one line, two max it could possibly work financially. But that would require massive manufacturing flexibility, which is unlikely to be achieved without significant design and engineering compromises. I don't see how at this point, with Lincoln's volume that this wouldn't be a bigger negative than benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    2. Develop one new RWD/AWD platform to suit all Lincoln cars and Utes
    including MKC, a coupe, MKX, MKZ, and MKT/Aviator.
    Build all of them at one plant, control everything start to finish.
    I suspect MKC -> Aviator/MKT is too large a leap for any one platform to be done well. On the other hand I believe versions of D6 will be under the next MKZ, MKX, Aviator, Continental, and maybe an outside shot for a coupe, though I suspect that'll be on S650.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    At the moment, MKX, MKZ and Continental are already on versions of CD4, it wouldn't take much
    to bring MKC across as ti's already a widened version of C1 Escape. A wider CD4 Ute with longer
    wheelbase is entirely possible thanks to Taurus and Continental paving the way.

    So, if CD4 can go from those mid sized Utes and cars to Large Continental and perhaps a Utility version
    on a similar wheelbase then, anything is possible if you apply the same logic to a RWD/AWD platform
    Last edited by jpd80; 03-21-2016 at 12:33 AM.

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    Re: You get to rebuild Lincoln!

    in 2012 FORD should have grabbed the chassis components from the Falcon as I read it is a VERY modular "component" built car and aimed for a "C" and "E" class car out of that with the Conti at the top
    the Navigator would have been prioritized for MCE treatment and ECOBOOST transplant basically pull forward the MCE just done

    while we are working on the falcon also grab up the RWD based Territory that is BASED on the Falcons chassis components to build a Lincoln Aviator and with the GOAL of making a Porsche like SUV

    no focus based and NO VOODOO engines and IMHO NO 5.0 V8's at all and stick to a ECOBOOSTED lineup

    time line I see pulling everything as far forward as I can imagine it going one year earlier would be "awesome" but NOT doable current products would be REPLACED with these NEW ones at the time of new one going on sale and they would receive the face lifts given up to 2014 year

    2012 - salvation
    2013 -
    2014 Navigator production MCE auto show 2015 release
    2014 first falcon based car shown in concept form
    2015 falcon car in production form 2016 sale date
    2015 show Territory based Aviator with 2017 sales date
    2015 show Conti' concept
    2016 show Conti production ready
    2017 sell conti and Aviator
    2018 all NEW Aluminium Navigator

    I see more of a Mercedes "I arrived" attitude and less BMW " I tore up the AUTOBAHN" - like rolls royce they CAN go fast but that is NOT the point OR the attitude

    ALL Lincolns have plentiful back seat room and is "baked in" from there design beginnings for a then future chinese assault and to avoid the CADDY "mistake" with the then future ATS

    I personally feel the Falcon is a better Lincoln then the Mustang will be as the stang is a compact to start with VS a full size sedan with a SUV daughter and I understand around 2010 FORD spent a LOT of work on it and the BARRA engine(I am NOT suggesting it comes along) for improved efficiency and low cost of assembly + I understand it is build from very large / complete components IE the rear suspension / driveline is ONE module


    this is what I hoped would happen to Lincoln and the FWD + MK some letter I have lost track of the Lincoln line up
    Last edited by richmond2000; 03-21-2016 at 05:23 AM.

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