Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS - Page 4

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Thread: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

  1. #46
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    ^ imho a MAJOR benefit to any new-current Lincoln is
    that it's "part of a lineup" or team of vehicles (still developing, true) which
    the LS didn't have....stood out like the only NOT-sore thumb

    oops/edit/ps
    iirc the Z hasn't changed it's starting price
    at least not enough to notice vs inflation
    (tho imho the Z needs to bring its ba$e upto $39,999 asap
    AND fix it's trim/options in the process!!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Amphibian View Post
    Wasn't a Focus-based Lincoln supposed to be in the works, with even some spy photos of a small MKFocus running around? It wouldn't surprise me if Ford went that route, since after all brands like Saab (9-3) and Audi (A5/A5) have historically gone after the 3-Series without a RWD platform.

    A proper ATS competitor would be ideal, but the Focus is not a bad basis for a small upscale little bugger, especially if they gave it a regular 6+ speed automatic and the 2.0T for 30K.

    BTW I haven't been on here as much in the last few months. Is there any update on the Lincoln-exclusive 2.7TT we'd been hearing about? ...
    OY & keeping it short tho
    (since it's a sore point for me personally)
    - the only official C-car was the (YUCK) C-Concept aka The Abomination
    - the Focus spypix are a mystery/leftover-mule
    - imho FoMoCo will keep the Focus platform a true C-segment, so too small for 3erhood
    - the Mustang is so close in size to the soon more-bloated 3er nextnextgen that FoMoCo might be afraid to tighten it too much for cy2014/2015my
    - there's recent talk about a 2.9 to accompany the 2.7 - a number of people seem to expect one-or-both THIS year or early 2014 ...dunno about that
    - I'm still forecasting 140hp per liter for gen2 EBs tho even a bit more won't surprise me
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    My lord... I guess we're opening this can of worms again.

    The Lincoln LS failed for one reason, and one reason alone:



    Complaints from The Coventry.

    Jaguar and Lincoln were under instruction to cooperate to ensure both the LS and S-Type shared all the best technology. However, Jaguar complained endlessly that any good things that Lincoln got put Jaguar at risk for competition from Lincoln. Ford's Anglo-sympathetic management yielded to them, and cut all of Lincoln's major technology improvements and performance enhancements. The Lincoln LSE was scheduled to get the supercharged AJ V8, but Jaguar wouldn't permit it.

    It's a load of nonsense that the platform is not adaptable or flexible. The platform was adapted for aluminum, and underpins the XF and XJ. It's Jaguar that prevented Lincoln from using it.

    Interestingly, the LS was well along the way of being redesigned onto a hybrid DEW98 and S197 platform (basically the Mustang's front end with the old LS's IRS back end), and previewed by the Navicross concept:



    However, the platform was not easily adaptable for AWD, and Lincoln figured it would be better just to put the rest of the development funds into the MKS.
    "They say Eve tempted Adam with an apple, but man I ain't goin' for that. I know it was her pink Cadillac!"

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Seems to be the consensus, sadly. That hybrid platform sounds interesting though.

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Ford's management was responsible for allowing these decisions to be made because they OWNED Jaguar. To act as if Ford sat idly by whilst Jaguar dictated the terms of the LS/ S Type relationship without any responsibility being shared by Ford's management is a bit disingenuous. Ford decided to excommunicate Lincoln from PAG, and I saw the writing on the wall way back then during the Nasser era. It is almost as if Ford did not think that Lincoln deserved the same attention as Jaguar, and almost if they by their indecision created the situation that Lincoln is currently in.

    If the LS development had of even come close in any way from the S Type's evolution into the XF it would still be very relevant today. Also the 03/04 Cobra's 4.6 liter supercharged V8 did in fact fit into the DEW98 platform, and Ford even built a few engineering prototypes. I believe that the DEW98 program among other situations is what has made Ford what some would say gun shy, and others would say fiscally conservative in regards to Lincoln.
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    ^ almost? .... ALMOST?!?

    it's ridiculous that 'somebody' couldn't tell ALL of JagUar mgmt that their resignations would be required by end of business one-fine-day
    however
    eventually that 'somebody' did realize he needed someone else to do his job and hired him


    Quote Originally Posted by Amphibian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wescoent View Post
    ...Interestingly, the LS was well along the way of being redesigned onto a hybrid DEW98 and S197 platform (basically the Mustang's front end with the old LS's IRS back end)...
    Seems to be the consensus, sadly. That hybrid platform sounds interesting though.
    yeah

    esp if they're ready to try that again
    Link
    Last edited by 2b2; 01-28-2013 at 01:56 AM.
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    IMO, The Lincoln LS is still one of Lincoln's best looking cars to date.
    It looks way better than any of Lincoln's current or known coming models.
    Even the last gen Town Car looks better than current crop of Lincolns, including the 2nd gen MKZ.

    The only current Lincoln that has any true validation is the Navigator.
    The rest is rubbish, including the new/coming MKZ.

    The MKC is rubbish too.
    Max Wolff along w/the new design language of Lincolns, have to go.

    !!!
    IF It's A Chevrolet & RWD, Don't ride in it!!!

    ALL Chevy's NEED to be FWD/F-AWD!!!

    If it's a Toyota/Lexus/Scion, Don't ride in/drive it!!


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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    IMO, The Lincoln LS is still one of Lincoln's best looking cars to date.
    It looks way better than any of Lincoln's current or known coming models.
    Even the last gen Town Car looks better than current crop of Lincolns, including the 2nd gen MKZ.

    The only current Lincoln that has any true validation is the Navigator.
    The rest is rubbish, including the new/coming MKZ.

    The MKC is rubbish too.
    Max Wolff along w/the new design language of Lincoln, have to go.

    !!!
    IF It's A Chevrolet & RWD, Don't ride in it!!!

    ALL Chevy's NEED to be FWD/F-AWD!!!

    If it's a Toyota/Lexus/Scion, Don't ride in/drive it!!


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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    What did this car in was the offend-no-one blandness of the exterior that aged all too quickly, and the sub par interior. The execution was just too conservative for a bottom-rung brand trying muscle it's way into relevancy. It did have the nice side effect of encouraging GM to go all out with CTS/A&S, which maintained good sales through out its run.
    Last edited by free_energy0; 01-28-2013 at 02:55 AM.

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Quote Originally Posted by germeezy1 View Post
    Ford's management was responsible for allowing these decisions to be made because they OWNED Jaguar. To act as if Ford sat idly by whilst Jaguar dictated the terms of the LS/ S Type relationship without any responsibility being shared by Ford's management is a bit disingenuous. Ford decided to excommunicate Lincoln from PAG, and I saw the writing on the wall way back then during the Nasser era. It is almost as if Ford did not think that Lincoln deserved the same attention as Jaguar, and almost if they by their indecision created the situation that Lincoln is currently in.

    If the LS development had of even come close in any way from the S Type's evolution into the XF it would still be very relevant today. Also the 03/04 Cobra's 4.6 liter supercharged V8 did in fact fit into the DEW98 platform, and Ford even built a few engineering prototypes. I believe that the DEW98 program among other situations is what has made Ford what some would say gun shy, and others would say fiscally conservative in regards to Lincoln.
    Yes, Ford's upper management was responsible for not removing the Jaguar parasite from themselves sooner. After failing to acquire BMW in the late 1990's, Ford's upper management thought they could turn Jaguar into another BMW, if they let them call the shots. Jaguar proceeded to suck tens of billions in funds, Ford's best and brightest talent, and deliberately handicap the other brands to prop themselves up, all while failing to accomplish what they wanted to.

    The Modular engine does fit into the DEW98, but not on an assembly line.
    "They say Eve tempted Adam with an apple, but man I ain't goin' for that. I know it was her pink Cadillac!"

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    The LS failed for two main reasons:

    1. Marketing. Ford basically stopped advertizing the car after 2001. The LS debuted just as Ford's "launch and abandon" program was perfected. The '99 Mercury Cougar had the same fate. Great sales its first two years. Nothing letting people know it existed thereafter. The Jag S-Type, built on the same platform, got more airtime than the Lincoln LS did.

    2. Lack of development. Ford's soft trim update for 2003 was halfhearted at best. Almost no one noticed the changes. And, again, Ford failed to market the car, at all really, even with the paltry changes it got. It cruised into 2006 with people roundly considering it a failure. So while it competed fairly well on the luxury car market in 2000, everyone had moved on by the forgotten car's seventh and final model year.
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Quote Originally Posted by wescoent View Post
    Yes, Ford's upper management was responsible for not removing the Jaguar parasite from themselves sooner. After failing to acquire BMW in the late 1990's, Ford's upper management thought they could turn Jaguar into another BMW, if they let them call the shots. Jaguar proceeded to suck tens of billions in funds, Ford's best and brightest talent, and deliberately handicap the other brands to prop themselves up, all while failing to accomplish what they wanted to.

    The Modular engine does fit into the DEW98, but not on an assembly line.
    Am I imagining things or did you just allow the blame in regards to Ford to partially fall on the parties responsible? Were I to allow my child to drive our family to financial ruin whilst very plausible that I could blame her for this debacle as the father ultimately the onus of responsibility falls on me irregardless of what my child may or may not have contributed to my family's financial demise.

    Quote Originally Posted by autoplaybook View Post
    The LS failed for two main reasons:

    1. Marketing. Ford basically stopped advertizing the car after 2001. The LS debuted just as Ford's "launch and abandon" program was perfected. The '99 Mercury Cougar had the same fate. Great sales its first two years. Nothing letting people know it existed thereafter. The Jag S-Type, built on the same platform, got more airtime than the Lincoln LS did.

    2. Lack of development. Ford's soft trim update for 2003 was halfhearted at best. Almost no one noticed the changes. And, again, Ford failed to market the car, at all really, even with the paltry changes it got. It cruised into 2006 with people roundly considering it a failure. So while it competed fairly well on the luxury car market in 2000, everyone had moved on by the forgotten car's seventh and final model year.
    Especially when you consider that the S Type received a completely new interior, and later in life new revised AJ V8 engines. When the LS received the revised exhaust VVT added 3.9 AJ V8 in 2003 it had endured 3 full years with a less than adequate V8. One large mistake that they made is being so transparent on what the cars shared, and their relationship which was made quite aware to anyone who considered the two cars.
    I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Quote Originally Posted by germeezy1 View Post
    Am I imagining things or did you just allow the blame in regards to Ford to partially fall on the parties responsible? Were I to allow my child to drive our family to financial ruin whilst very plausible that I could blame her for this debacle as the father ultimately the onus of responsibility falls on me irregardless of what my child may or may not have contributed to my family's financial demise.
    Right, and Bill Ford fired himself as a result and hired Alan to fix the mess. They got a new management team, cleaned house from top to bottom, got rid of those responsible for letting things go to ruin, and cut loose the cancer that is Jaguar.
    "They say Eve tempted Adam with an apple, but man I ain't goin' for that. I know it was her pink Cadillac!"

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    I have a lot of experience with the LS and, IMO, this is a car that is easy to love and hate at the same time.

    I'll start with the pros.

    1: This was a great looking car, and without being overwrought which is now so common. Even more it was a car both genders seemed to embrace stylistically which is rarer than some think.
    2: These things were built like a bank vault. This has obvious benefits like real world passenger safety, etc.
    3: They were fairly spry for the day.
    4: Actual, technical handling is very good. The LS does exactly what you tell it too and at surprisingly high limits with the right tires.

    Cons

    1: Interior space was ridiculous for a car this large. Sedan or not, this car is more like a four door coupe in practice and is tight everywhere. I suspect this was a 'feature' designed in for the sake of the S Type, a car which they wanted to have a 'tight, tailored' feel like Jags of old. Sadly, that approach made little sense for Jaguar and none for Lincoln, not in the real world.
    2: These cars felt heavy when you drove them. Steering was very linear and direct, but every movement felt like you were steering a car that weighed twice what the LS does. Oddly, I suspect they worked very hard to make the car feel substantial when you drove it, and just got heavy for their trouble.
    3: Made even more odd by the heavy feel, the car was tuned too heavily toward the sport side of the equation in general. Sans the tires and wheels the standard V8 LS was probably about spot on for a 'Sport Package', the Sport model was too stiff altogether, and you had to move down to a base six to get a car that was close to what a standard LS should have been, but even that wasn't really right.
    4: No Mod motor made no sense. Again, I suspect we have the surprisingly large anglophile contingent within Ford at that time to blame for this, as I believe the engine bay was made AJ narrow to keep Ford V-8 engines out of Jags. Irony in action, the DOHC Mod motor was and still is a better mill than the AJ. Still seems weird to me that during this era you had a FoMoCo who couldn't wait to do anything but work on a Ford.

    In spite of all of that I think the LS sold about as well as could have been expected flaws aside, probably because the thing was so good looking. (a pretty face still forgives a lot of sins) But, I also think the LS was a car that showed in spades that the priorities at Ford were in all the wrong places at that time.
    1: The focus really wasn't on Lincoln
    and
    2: That it really should have been on Lincoln

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    Actually the Thunderbird rode the same platform as well and shared a large number of interior bits.

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    Re: Why It Failed: 2000-2006 Lincoln LS

    I've owned an '01 V8 for the last 6 years. I love the thing. It may not be fastest or have the best interior, but it takes corners like a dream. There is a fairly loyal cult following for the LS.

    As for why it failed, I think plenty of previous commenters have touched on it. The biggest reason is that Ford was putting resources into other PAG brands at the time, while neglecting Lincoln. The second biggest reason is that DEW98 was too expensive to make a business case for building a better LS.

    I don't quite agree with the comments about the exterior. I find the clean styling of the LS to have worn much better than the S-Type and CTS of that era. There is a subtle elegance to the LS, especially in profile. The taillights could have been a little different, but I don't mind them overall. I actually like the all-red taillights of the first gen better than the second gen. In person, the subtle fender flares and curves are more noticeable than in photos.

    On the interior, while the materials aren't quite as soft touch as you would expect for this class, they are indeed soft touch, and they are grained fairly nicely on the door panels and dash. The biggest shortfall is the center stack and console area, which is hard plastic that has poor graining. Otherwise, the interior construction is very tight and generally solid. The only area in mine that squeaks is the cheap center console storage bin...otherwise there are no squeaks and rattles. The seat leather could be a little softer, but it has been durable and resisted heavy cracking that you see on cheaper leathers. The LS has heavy doors that close like a bank vault. I also had an '07 MKZ, and driving the two back-to-back, the LS always felt like a much more solid vehicle inside and out.

    If these cars are abused, they become maintenance nightmares. I have been pretty good to mine over the years and really haven't had many problems despite the amount of miles that have been put on.

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