Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July - Page 3

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Thread: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

  1. #31
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    And I found out where a lot the XT5 sales went......................

    https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-c...1000&model=XT5
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    Let's look at the numbers........to note - I'll preface this post by saying I haven't looked at them yet, so I don't know what they'll say/not trying to prove a point either way.

    I'm going to look at just the compact/midsize/large midsize segments, and exclude Escalade/Navigator.

    Cadillac
    ..........................2019 Q4......................................2019 full year.................................2020 Q1:
    XT4......................8,895 (+17.5% vs. 2018)............31,987 (+310.9% vs. 2018).............5,162 (-26.5 vs. 2019)
    XT5....................11,168 (-17.8%)..........................49,879 (-17.6%).............................9,023 (-32.0%)
    XT6......................7,169 (new)...............................11,559 (new).................................5,074 (new)
    Total...............27,232 (+28.7%).........................93,425 (+36.7%)..........................19,259 (-5.2%)

    Lincoln
    ...........................2019 Q4.....................................2019 full year.................................2020 Q1
    MKC/Corsair..........7,549 (+8.3% vs. 2018)...............25,815 (-1.6% vs. 2018).................5,670 (-2.0% vs. 2019)
    MKX/Nautilus........7,727 (-11.1%)...........................31,711 (+11%)...............................5,245 (-33.1)
    MKT......................275 (-49.1%)...............................3,388 (+45.8%)...............................109 (-91.2)
    Aviator..................6,424 (new).................................8,323 (new)..................................5,666 (new)
    Total...............21,975 (+35.7%)..........................69,237 (+21.2%)..........................16,689 (+12.3%)


    Comparing models specifically:

    ..........................2019 Q4........................................2019 full year................................2020 Q1:
    XT4.....................8,895 (+17.5% vs. 2018)...............31,987 (+310.9% vs. 2018)............5,162 (-26.5 vs. 2019)
    MKC/Corsair..........7,549 (+8.3% vs. 2018)................25,815 (-1.6% vs. 2018).................5,670 (-2.0% vs. 2019)

    XT5....................11,168 (-17.8%).............................49,879 (-17.6%)...........................9,023 (-32.0%)
    MKX/Nautilus........7,727 (-11.1%)..............................31,711 (+11%)............................5,245 (-33.1)

    XT6.....................7,169 (new)..................................11,559 (new)................................5,074 (new)
    MKT.......................275 (-49.1%)...............................3,388 (+45.8%).............................109 (-91.2)
    Aviator.................6,424 (new)....................................8,323 (new)................................5,666 (new)

    Cadillac Total....27,232 21155(+28.7%)..................93,425 (+36.7%).........................19,259 20304(-5.2%)
    Lincoln Total.....21,975 16198(+35.7%)..................69,237 (+21.2%).........................16,689 14864(+12.3%)

    Difference............5,257 (+6.1% Cadillac)...................24,188 (+115.7% Cadillac).............2,570 (-52.7% Cadillac)*

    *Cadillac's lead increased 6.1% for Q4 2019, 115.7% for 2019 full, and decreased 52.7% for Q1 2020.
    So breaking these down a bit, sales in the overall/total crossover market for both brands increased for Q4, all of 2019, and Q1 for Lincoln, but not Cadillac.

    But looking at the middle entrants for both brands (XT5 And MKX/Nautilus), which predated the other offerings bracketing them, you'll see XT5 was definitely cannibalized by XT4 and XT6, but the brand still grew total crossover sales despite that drop. That's what I predicted when they launched XT4.

    MKX was a tad different, as it lost sales for Q4 (with its brackets up), but gained for the year in 2019. However, Corsair also launched late in the year, which could eat into MKX/Nautilus' numbers, which we're seeing in Q1 202, with Nautilus down a lot, but Corsair down only slightly.

    That said, numbers for Q1 onward this year will be screwed up with Covid. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    While the interior design of the Nautilus is nice, it does date back to 2013 (not in the MKX, but the design was out that long). It is not nearly as rich, and the materials are not nearly as nice as the new design theme. Also, a huge point of interest............. you cannot get the perfect position seats in the Nautilus (I just did a build on one). The last time I talked to Sanderson Lincoln (one of the largest Lincoln dealerships in the country), they were ordering everything that they could, with those seats. They said buyer interest in them was above 80%. I find it odd you can't get them in the Nautilus. You can get perfect position seats in the Corsair even though there is no Black Label package.

    I also find it sad that you can't get the 3.0TT in the Nautilus. We did a Lincoln date night with the MKX with the 2.7TT. While quick, it wasn't anything to write home about.

    I just think that it is the least impressive of the Lincoln Crossover / SUV's. The Corsair is very nice, and there are a couple of them running around town already. The Aviator is amazing. The Nautilus is nice.

    Of course, what do I know.
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme4x4 View Post
    While the interior design of the Nautilus is nice, it does date back to 2013 (not in the MKX, but the design was out that long). It is not nearly as rich, and the materials are not nearly as nice as the new design theme. Also, a huge point of interest............. you cannot get the perfect position seats in the Nautilus (I just did a build on one). The last time I talked to Sanderson Lincoln (one of the largest Lincoln dealerships in the country), they were ordering everything that they could, with those seats. They said buyer interest in them was above 80%. I find it odd you can't get them in the Nautilus. You can get perfect position seats in the Corsair even though there is no Black Label package.

    I also find it sad that you can't get the 3.0TT in the Nautilus. We did a Lincoln date night with the MKX with the 2.7TT. While quick, it wasn't anything to write home about.

    I just think that it is the least impressive of the Lincoln Crossover / SUV's. The Corsair is very nice, and there are a couple of them running around town already. The Aviator is amazing. The Nautilus is nice.

    Of course, what do I know.
    I'd agree with all these points. It followed the 2013 MKZ's styling, and that's the look it still has except the new grille, though they did upgrade the materials.

    I also found it strange that they didn't include the seats.....though now that I'm thinking about it, the perfect position ones use the door panel mounted seat controls, not the seat mounted controls like MKX. So when coming to the refresh, that would have meant having to redesign the door panel to accommodate the seat controls, and was likely deemed too expensive for whatever seemingly minimal budget they had. Therefore, it just stuck with the ones that were already in there.

    As for the 3.0, I also assumed it'd get that, but that was probably similar reasons, as BORG pointed out earlier I think in this thread - the 3.0 in FWD form is only in the MKZ and Conti and paired to the 6 speed. ALL Edge and Nautilus models switched to the 8 speed with the refresh, meaning that'd have been a new combo to develop/certify for a single volume with a likely low-medium take rate (though you could make the argument they should've switched MKZ and Conti to 8 speed).

    The bottom line is exactly what you said - it's now the least impressive of the range, so sales will balance accordingly aside from those that want that size vehicle.

    As I pointed out earlier here, XT5 is more similar to XT6, with the same interior and powertrain, so you can shop more strictly on size at Cadillac without taking the "hit" in newness and features that you do with the Nautilus. XT5's sales have fallen more because they were a lot higher to begin with, so more volume to cannibalize - previously you wanted a Cadillac crossover, and that was your only option.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    This was spotting in a Lincoln group the other day its a very very very MINOR tweak to the exterior of the Nautilus. I wonder if they are going to do any interior upgrade at all at least for the screen area to make it compatible for Sync 4



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    5.3 Liter Vortec V8 rmc523's Avatar
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew L View Post
    This was spotting in a Lincoln group the other day its a very very very MINOR tweak to the exterior of the Nautilus. I wonder if they are going to do any interior upgrade at all at least for the screen area to make it compatible for Sync 4



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    Borg said that's an update for China, but not here.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    That updated Nautilus was spotted in China (among several other copies). I'm not exactly clear on the status for North America. Nobody I know in Dearborn is aware of this change so I guess we'll have to wait for the 2021 order guides. If this is a China only change (which they've done for many Fords, including Explorer, Escape, and Mondeo), they may add an oversized touch-screen display to the center stack running a China-specific interface. You won't see any major design changes this close to a new model however.

    I have a Black Label Nautilus and I certainly prefer it to the Corsair. The design of the Nautilus dash does date back to the 2013 MKZ and 2014 MKC so it does feel like the odd-man out right now among two brand-new designs. I personally love the smooth flowing and open dashboard design and the Black Label trim level has MUCH nicer surfaces throughout. The only issue with the design for me is the smallish Sync screen. I would certainly like to see an evolution of the Aviator dashboard in here, not a huge fan of Corsair's interpretation.

    The MKX/Nautilus has always had available 19-Way Adjustable Multi-Contour seats. While they don't look as impressive as the 22-Way Perfect Position seats, they have many similar features. I love them because of the thigh extension and the adjustable shoulder and headrest.

    The only thing the Nautilus is just flat-out missing is Lincoln's incredible HUD which is even available on Corsair, otherwise The Nautilus update brought most of the same tech and features. Many of the safety features actually debuted on the 2019 Nautilus, like Lane Centering and Evasive Steering. Missing unfortunately is the backup braking assist.
    Last edited by BORG; 05-26-2020 at 01:12 PM.

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    So does North America skip the refreshed Nautilus because it gets the next gen Nautilus before China?

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    5.3 Liter Vortec V8 rmc523's Avatar
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    So does North America skip the refreshed Nautilus because it gets the next gen Nautilus before China?
    Unless Nautilus goes on hiatus in China, or they're able to get the factory up and running there for this generation, I'd imagine both markets will get a next gen around the same time, no?

    With Oakville currently being the production site for all examples worldwide, I doubt they'd tool up production in China for the current model with a new one around the corner, unless they plan on doing that old generation along the new one the Chinese market sometimes does.

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    It was suggested a few posts above that North American would not get China refresh this close to next gen arrival
    so is the China refresh a get through until it's local NG Nautilus production is up and running?
    Last edited by jpd80; 05-26-2020 at 04:09 PM.

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    5.3 Liter Vortec V8 rmc523's Avatar
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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    It was suggested a few posts above that North American would not get China refresh this close to next gen arrival
    so is the China refresh a get through until it's local NG Nautilus production is up and running?
    Could be.

    Though if the next gen isn't due until 2023 MY? that's still 2 years, which should be enough time to get production of a next gen online there, I'd think?

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    I don't know if this is China specific only, but that's my assumption. This is a minor change, basically a tweaked bumper. They may have needed to make a running change to the China model for local reasons. I can only speculate since this revision is a surprise to me, as is the more significant Chinese refresh of Explorer. There are no plans to produce Nautilus outside of Oakville, I don't see a Chinese location listed for the car. That will likely change in 2 years with the new model which FINALLY adds hybrids, which is required for Chinese production.
    Last edited by BORG; 05-27-2020 at 10:29 AM.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    Quote Originally Posted by BORG View Post
    I don't know if this is China specific only, but that's my assumption. This is a minor change, basically a tweaked bumper. They may have needed to make a running change to the China model for local reasons. I can only speculate since this revision is a surprise to me, as is the more significant Chinese refresh of Explorer. There are no plans to produce Nautilus outside of Oakville, I don't see a Chinese location listed for the car. That will likely change in 2 years with the new model which FINALLY adds hybrids, which is required for Chinese production.
    I know there was talk of a Cinese factory for Corsair/Nautilus, but maybe it's further off than expected.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    They do build a version of the Edge in China, for China only. It's a 3-Row model.

    It's my understanding that in order to add a new Lincoln to a Chinese factory today, electrification is required. A Hybrid will be part of the new Nautilus/Edge so I can only assume those will see Chinese production.

    Chinese specific versions of the MKX were being built since the last major redesign, specifically an MKX with the 2.0L EB instead of the 3.7L V6. The Nautilus of course uses the same engine now.

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    Re: Lincoln MKZ Production to end in July

    That's a handsome sedan IMO. Lincolns are one of the few sedans that stand out at all, most sedans are pretty anonymous.

    Our neighbor had a good looking Lincoln, cream color, very handsome and definitely grabbed your eyeballs. She traded it for a super-anonymous police unmarked unit undistinguished Fusion.
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