Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

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Thread: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

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    Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Based upon what Autoline is stating in the link below, that being that the Continental is well and truly dead in two years, maybe so. Member 12 posted this same basic news via a different source recently, and I was a skeptic, but I think Autoline so definitively stating that this is indeed the case makes it seem much more certain. At this point, assuming that this information is accurate, the only realistic possibility for a near-future Lincoln car would seem to be something Mustang based. And to that end, a Mustang-based, four-door, Continental 'coupe' seems like something that could work, but I'm not holding my breath. Outside of that, I don't see any other realistic options. And even if something like that does materialize, Lincoln will still effectively be a crossover/suv brand that builds a halo performance car.

    I suppose we can now say that Lincoln won't be missing the Range Rover lineup anymore if they ever did, since they are apparently going to have a luxury suv brand all their own.

    Autoline

    ***Continental news is at one minute fourteen seconds in
    Last edited by SVT74; 06-13-2018 at 03:54 PM.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    The ford Mach 1 cuv coming in 2020 will be a huge hit although I think five seat capability should be part of the program.no matter how small the center seat is.

    I also think the continental should be immediately revamped to make it exactly like the concept car ..the details are minimal but the differences huge..

    Lincoln had 50k reservations on the concept...but the production version changes saw demand drop off dramatically..

    The devil is in the details and the small savings...in production costs dropped the demand big time...

    One day ford , GM and Chrysler will learn..the small expense added to offer concept car details will come back ten fold in sales success..

    Jmo and I hope the continental becomes a success and doesn’t die in 2 years as rumored.

    Cuvs is where the market is today...

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    BTw the upcoming aviator is going to be a huge hit...

    Best in class is not inconceivable.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    BTw the upcoming aviator is going to be a huge hit...

    Best in class is not inconceivable.
    I'm thinking it is a possibility as well, Lincoln definitely needs for that to be the case. It's also interesting that, along with the Explorer, the next generation of Nautilus and Edge are almost certain to ride on this same basic platform as the Aviator, just with a shorter wheelbase. That should represent a big step up in chassis dynamics for both of them. They might be seriously cutting sedan production, but Ford is apparently bringing the fire on the crossover and suv side of the equation.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Even their crossovers do not sell well

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Even their crossovers do not sell well
    I think the sale numbers look fine. Through April Ford has sold....

    EcoSport: 11,373
    Escape: 88,733
    Edge: 43,894
    Explorer: 72,025

    ...while Chevrolet has sold..

    Trax: 20,482
    Equinox: 82,398
    Traverse: 38,198

    and I'll even add in the Acadia from GMC since Chevy doesn't have the Blazer yet...

    Acadia: 29,900

    Those look pretty comparable to me, in fact overall Ford looks to be besting GM here even with the Acadia added in. Actually, I'm amazed Ford crossovers sell as well as they do given the age of some of them.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    I think the sale numbers look fine. Through April Ford has sold....

    EcoSport: 11,373
    Escape: 88,733
    Edge: 43,894
    Explorer: 72,025

    ...while Chevrolet has sold..

    Trax: 20,482
    Equinox: 82,398
    Traverse: 38,198

    and I'll even add in the Acadia from GMC since Chevy doesn't have the Blazer yet...

    Acadia: 29,900

    Those look pretty comparable to me, in fact overall Ford looks to be besting GM here even with the Acadia added in. Actually, I'm amazed Ford crossovers sell as well as they do given the age of some of them.
    Lincoln.?

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Buick and gmc versions of Chevy should be included in the comparision ..to ford and Lincoln.

    Lincolns rwd biased awd aviator platform will be impressive and it’s good to hear it will be shrunk and stretched for other products

    GM is primarily working with fwd based awd platforms to offer a $1500 less expensive option whereas GM learned the hard way that with the original but weird looking rear wheel drive biased cuv had a hard time competing on price and unit sales...

    GM believes fwd only versions of a popular cuv is a smart way to offer value to consumers shopping price.

    I’m not sure I agree that it will allow GM to compete in the upcoming battle for true SPORTs cuv as corporate halo vehicles..

    Lincoln will be able to.

    GM s edict to offer its cuv s with a fwd only variant might actually allow Lincoln to surpass GM in Street cred and eventually sales ..

    The aviator platform is supposedly fantastic to drive according to such noted journalists as John McElroy of autoline after hours.

    I value his insights and opinions.

    Fca has Jeep...which is rwd biased as well.

    Surprisingly bmw is moving part of its lower cuv Range such as the x1to a fwd biased system and I believe sales are good so that might be a similiar logic GM is using.

    Mercedes has done the sa em with its GLA cuv offering...

    Audi of course has always been fwd drive biased...

    Same for Subaru.

    Still I believe rwd biased awd will offer the best a slight edge in the coming sports cuv war brewing.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    Buick and gmc versions of Chevy should be included in the comparision ..to ford and Lincoln.

    Lincolns rwd biased awd aviator platform will be impressive and it’s good to hear it will be shrunk and stretched for other products

    GM is primarily working with fwd based awd platforms to offer a $1500 less expensive option whereas GM learned the hard way that with the original but weird looking rear wheel drive biased cuv had a hard time competing on price and unit sales...

    GM believes fwd only versions of a popular cuv is a smart way to offer value to consumers shopping price.

    I’m not sure I agree that it will allow GM to compete in the upcoming battle for true SPORTs cuv as corporate halo vehicles..

    Lincoln will be able to.

    GM s edict to offer its cuv s with a fwd only variant might actually allow Lincoln to surpass GM in Street cred and eventually sales ..

    The aviator platform is supposedly fantastic to drive according to such noted journalists as John McElroy of autoline after hours.

    I value his insights and opinions.

    Fca has Jeep...which is rwd biased as well.

    Surprisingly bmw is moving part of its lower cuv Range such as the x1to a fwd biased system and I believe sales are good so that might be a similiar logic GM is using.

    Mercedes has done the sa em with its GLA cuv offering...

    Audi of course has always been fwd drive biased...

    Same for Subaru.

    Still I believe rwd biased awd will offer the best a slight edge in the coming sports cuv war brewing.
    The CUV war is nuclear right now, by the time Cadillac and Lincoln come to the party , the SUV will be a minivan, or a Camry/Modeo, discount offerings

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Lincoln.?
    Alright, I get it now. I had already drifted far enough off topic I didn't immediately realize that you were actually focusing on the actual topic, Lincoln, instead of just FoMoCo!

    For 2018 Lincoln has moved....

    MKC: 6,755

    MKX: 8,491

    Cadillac has moved....

    XT5: 14,845

    So Cadillac basically moves almost as many XT5 crossovers as Ford moves MKC and MKX crossovers combined. To some degree I think it's logical to expect to move more units of one crossover than you would expect to sell of each individual model if you had two instead of the one. However, I don't think that even comes close to accounting for this level of difference in sales and, the truth is, Cadillac has done a much better job of setting the SRX/XT5 apart from more mainstream GM counterparts, as well as both positioning and marketing it much more effectively, than Lincoln has managed with the MKC and MKX. Ultimately MKC and MKX trail XT5 in too many ways to best it, which is why I like the upcoming Aviator so much. It's the second vehicle, after Navigator, that appears to deliver on the promise of true Lincoln potential, and I expect market response will be much better than it has been for MKX/Nautilus and MKC because of that. That said, I expect sales to be conservative but consistent even with a thoroughly improved, and much better differentiated, approach to Aviator not least because I expect it to be pricey. With Explorer being in the mix we at least don't have to worry about Ford setting a ridiculously low production cap for the Aviator like they did with Expedition and Navigator. Ford is absolutely losing money daily because of that, and the blame for that has to be laid squarely at the feet of executive leadership.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    Buick and gmc versions of Chevy should be included in the comparision ..to ford and Lincoln.

    Lincolns rwd biased awd aviator platform will be impressive and it’s good to hear it will be shrunk and stretched for other products

    GM is primarily working with fwd based awd platforms to offer a $1500 less expensive option whereas GM learned the hard way that with the original but weird looking rear wheel drive biased cuv had a hard time competing on price and unit sales...

    GM believes fwd only versions of a popular cuv is a smart way to offer value to consumers shopping price.

    I’m not sure I agree that it will allow GM to compete in the upcoming battle for true SPORTs cuv as corporate halo vehicles..

    Lincoln will be able to.

    GM s edict to offer its cuv s with a fwd only variant might actually allow Lincoln to surpass GM in Street cred and eventually sales ..

    The aviator platform is supposedly fantastic to drive according to such noted journalists as John McElroy of autoline after hours.

    I value his insights and opinions.

    Fca has Jeep...which is rwd biased as well.

    Surprisingly bmw is moving part of its lower cuv Range such as the x1to a fwd biased system and I believe sales are good so that might be a similiar logic GM is using.

    Mercedes has done the sa em with its GLA cuv offering...

    Audi of course has always been fwd drive biased...

    Same for Subaru.

    Still I believe rwd biased awd will offer the best a slight edge in the coming sports cuv war brewing.
    I have no issue including GMC and Buick in a corporation to corporation comparison, I think it makes for an interesting contrast in corporate philosophy. With double the brands GM is almost certain to always have a bigger overall footprint than FoMoCo does, while on the flip side I expect that the Ford unit of FoMoCo will likely continue to move more metal 'under one brand' than do any of the others precisely because they do only have two brands. I may do exactly that later, but it's a bit late to go digging for that much info right now. (I'm starting to feel my age ) It has actually occurred to me that, with Lincoln apparently moving up in the crossover world, Mercury could probably find a home in-between the two brands again, arguably more as a Ford brand peer with a different personality than the tweener brand it always wanted to be in days gone by. Of course, I'm all but certain we'll never see that come to fruition.

    I think your take on rwd vs fwd here is interesting. I've defended fwd based platforms in the past and I still believe they are more capable than they get credit for. But, in hindsight, I also think that I gave too little credit to the added image/prestige of a rwd based platform in some circles. Particularly so as manufacturers and brands seek to set themselves apart. Regarding fwd biased platforms on the bottom end of luxury brand lineups, I expect Lincoln will remain fwd-biased on the bottom end as well with MKC (or whatever they rename it) almost certainly continuing to share a platform with the Focus and Escape moving forward. On the flip side I think everything above that is probably going to be rwd-based eventually.
    Last edited by SVT74; 06-13-2018 at 11:59 PM.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    Alright, I get it now. I had already drifted far enough off topic I didn't immediately realize that you were actually focusing on the actual topic, Lincoln, instead of just FoMoCo!

    For 2018 Lincoln has moved....

    MKC: 6,755

    MKX: 8,491

    Cadillac has moved....

    XT5: 14,845

    So Cadillac basically moves almost as many XT5 crossovers as Ford moves MKC and MKX crossovers combined. To some degree I think it's logical to expect to move more units of one crossover than you would expect to sell of each individual model if you had two instead of the one. However, I don't think that even comes close to accounting for this level of difference in sales and, the truth is, Cadillac has done a much better job of setting the SRX/XT5 apart from more mainstream GM counterparts, as well as both positioning and marketing it much more effectively, than Lincoln has managed with the MKC and MKX. Ultimately MKC and MKX trail XT5 in too many ways to best it, which is why I like the upcoming Aviator so much. It's the second vehicle, after Navigator, that appears to deliver on the promise of true Lincoln potential, and I expect market response will be much better than it has been for MKX/Nautilus and MKC because of that. That said, I expect sales to be conservative but consistent even with a thoroughly improved, and much better differentiated, approach to Aviator not least because I expect it to be pricey. With Explorer being in the mix we at least don't have to worry about Ford setting a ridiculously low production cap for the Aviator like they did with Expedition and Navigator. Ford is absolutely losing money daily because of that, and the blame for that has to be laid squarely at the feet of executive leadership.
    The MKC and MKX don't sell well within their respective segments b/c they are underwhelming.

    Expect the XT4 to handily outsell the MKC.

    The NX/RX and RDX/MDX duos sell in multiples of the MKC/MKX.

    But agree that things are looking up for Lincoln in the SUV/CUV area w/ the new Nav and the upcoming Aviator.

    Along those lines, expect the next gen MKC and MKX to get some of that Nav/Av goodness.

    As to being a CUV/SUV luxury brand - Lincoln is hardly alone.

    Audi, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all are heavily dependent on CUVs/SUVs for sales.

    As their sedans have trouble competing against the offerings from MB and BMW.

    We'll probably see something along those lines for Cadillac as well when they get their CUV/SUV lineup (finally) in order.
    Last edited by YEH; 06-14-2018 at 02:32 AM.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by YEH View Post
    The MKC and MKX don't sell well within their respective segments b/c they are underwhelming.

    Expect the XT4 to handily outsell the MKC.

    The NX/RX and RDX/MDX duos sell in multiples of the MKC/MKX.

    But agree that things are looking up for Lincoln in the SUV/CUV area w/ the new Nav and the upcoming Aviator.

    Along those lines, expect the next gen MKC and MKX to get some of that Nav/Av goodness.

    As to being a CUV/SUV luxury brand - Lincoln is hardly alone.

    Audi, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all are heavily dependent on CUVs/SUVs for sales.

    As their sedans have trouble competing against the offerings from MB and BMW.

    We'll probably see something along those lines for Cadillac as well when they get their CUV/SUV lineup (finally) in order.
    I think XT4 will probably outsell MKC too, but I'd also expect somewhat of a reduction of sales of the XT5, which I believe benefits from being the only Cadillac crossover option. Probably not a huge drop, but I think you'll see some defect to the smaller XT4.

    Cadillac also has been working on their revitalization for a lot longer than Lincoln, and has a better brand image because of that. Lincoln has been making some good products, and Navigator is the start of some great products. That effort will spread to the rest of the lineup, and Lincoln's image (and eventually sales) will increase because of that.

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Even their crossovers do not sell well
    Not surprised. They still have the old Wing n Whale front ends.
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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Anything coming from Forecast Solutions is conjecture at best. The current Continental will be dropped, but there are replacements planned for it and the MKZ based on the CD6 architecture (which will also spawn the Mustang).

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    Re: Is Lincoln Becoming a Crossover and SUV Brand Exclusively?

    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    I think XT4 will probably outsell MKC too, but I'd also expect somewhat of a reduction of sales of the XT5, which I believe benefits from being the only Cadillac crossover option. Probably not a huge drop, but I think you'll see some defect to the smaller XT4.
    Don't think it'll be a huge drop (if any) either as the addition of the NX hardly impacted sales of the RX.

    Cadillac could have sold more of the XT5 (which is why they added the 3rd shift), so we may very well see an uptick in XT5 sales even w/ the addition of the XT4 in the lineup (expect it to not only outsell the current MKC, but outsell it handily).


    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    Cadillac also has been working on their revitalization for a lot longer than Lincoln, and has a better brand image because of that. Lincoln has been making some good products, and Navigator is the start of some great products. That effort will spread to the rest of the lineup, and Lincoln's image (and eventually sales) will increase because of that.

    But much of that was spent on the misguided ATS and 3G CTS, while its CUV lineup was delayed for any # of reasons.

    Lincoln, in its revival, started w/ the MKZ, but followed that up w/ the MKX and MKC.

    Bascially, the main reason why Cadillac is seen in a better light is that it offers RWD sedans (even if having been totally braindead when it came to packaging of the ATS and CTS), along w/ not letting the Escalade get too long in the tooth like what Lincoln had done w/ the Nav.

    Lincoln will beat Cadillac to the table when it comes to a RWD-based CUV, so they can start turning the table (so to speak).
    Last edited by YEH; 06-14-2018 at 07:01 PM.

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