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The future of SVT is hinged to a new truck

2K views 24 replies 16 participants last post by  yoblues 
#1 ·
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/30/the-future-of-svt-is-hinged-to-a-new-truck/
The future of Ford's Special Vehicle Team has been cloudy for the past few years. The hope that it would remain around in some form or another took a hit when its current chief, Hau Thai-Tang, was tapped to head Ford of Brazil earlier this year. Nevertheless, SVT indeed soldiers on and today we have proof that they're hard at work on a new project.

Winding Road managed to corner Jamal Hameedi, Chief Nameplate Engineer at SVT, at a Ford event in Detroit this morning. Hameedi revealed to WR that nearly all of SVT's resources are busy developing a new truck, and by "truck" he means a "body-on-frame" vehicle. Thus, whether it's a new F-150 Lightning or possibly a different F-Series model, an Explorer, Expedition or Ranger is unkown.

So, no Ford Taurus SHO developed by SVT or SVT Fusion. This kind of makes sense if one considers that the Lightning was supported throughout SVT's reign of terror in the '90s. Hameedi is reportedly extremely excited about the project, saying the finished product "...will blow your mind."

The performance truck world just got two shots of adrenalin in the form of the F-150 Foose Edition that will debut at the New York Auto Show next week and the Saleen S331 Sport Truck. If the new SVT truck will truly blow our minds, the bar is already set pretty high.
 
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#3 ·
genjy said:
Ugh. Who cares about sport trucks. The Lightning is so... irrelevant. This isn't the 1990's anymore.

A SVT sedan or a SVT compact would do Ford much more good.
Agreed...and the SVT cars (SVT Contour, Focus, Mustang Cobra) were all very successful. What a shame.
 
#4 ·
Hmm. If this has nothing to do with the Chip Foose F-150 that was announced today, then I'm intrigued. It was interesting in the press release for the Foose truck that its 450 horsepower will be the most powerful half ton pickup on the market when it hits the streets. Does that mean the Ram SRT10 is on its way out the door, since it has 500 horsepower?

Boy, do we need to get the Silverado SS with an LS7. :D
 
#6 ·
there are 2 things to note ..

1. Ford has noted a while back that SVT will NOT touch ALL Ford vehicles - they will focuse on 2 models: Mustang and a Truck.

2. Ford also hinted (and we know this by now quite reliably) that not all performance vehicles will come from SVT. Ford can put together a performance vehicle using regular company structures

SVT is basically becoming 1) Ford Performance parts developpers, 2) Ford's in-house hotrodder.

SVT might develop hte next ST Fusion suspension, or tune the chasis, but it will not be a turn-key SVT product the way the SVT Focus was ... the ST Fusion will come straight from Ford.

Igor
 
#7 ·
igor said:
there are 2 things to note ..

1. Ford has noted a while back that SVT will NOT touch ALL Ford vehicles - they will focuse on 2 models: Mustang and a Truck.

2. Ford also hinted (and we know this by now quite reliably) that not all performance vehicles will come from SVT. Ford can put together a performance vehicle using regular company structures

SVT is basically becoming 1) Ford Performance parts developpers, 2) Ford's in-house hotrodder.

SVT might develop hte next ST Fusion suspension, or tune the chasis, but it will not be a turn-key SVT product the way the SVT Focus was ... the ST Fusion will come straight from Ford.

Igor
I love the idea of a SVT-tuned performance anything, without the badge. And so should any young person who wants to insure their vehicle without the HUGE additional cost that the letters S.V.T. have over just an S.T.
 
#9 ·
igor said:
there are 2 things to note ..

1. Ford has noted a while back that SVT will NOT touch ALL Ford vehicles - they will focuse on 2 models: Mustang and a Truck.

2. Ford also hinted (and we know this by now quite reliably) that not all performance vehicles will come from SVT. Ford can put together a performance vehicle using regular company structures

SVT is basically becoming 1) Ford Performance parts developpers, 2) Ford's in-house hotrodder.

SVT might develop hte next ST Fusion suspension, or tune the chasis, but it will not be a turn-key SVT product the way the SVT Focus was ... the ST Fusion will come straight from Ford.

Igor
That's dumb. SVT should be like SRT at Chrysler.



 
#14 ·
yoblues said:
Trucks Trucks Trucks that's all the Detroit suits ever care or think about. Japan Inc thinks about Cars Cars Cars and takes away another 3% of their market share this year.
I disagree. The fact that Kia is looking into a small pickup, and toyota is putting tons on the line with the new Tundra and a possible heavy duty version, id say pickups are a pretty hot topic in Japan.

Japan already has their cars pretty well established in the U.S. Now they're looking to fill in the rest of their lineup.
 
#15 ·
yoblues said:
Trucks Trucks Trucks that's all the Detroit suits ever care or think about. Japan Inc thinks about Cars Cars Cars and takes away another 3% of their market share this year.
LOL,
it seems to me that Honda, Nissan and Toyota have been thinking a lot about trucks and big SUV's lately.

OH, and it seems to me that DCX, GM & Ford have been doing a fine job bringing out interesting cars that are selling well too.
 
#16 ·
What I don't get is why it seems to take so much effort just to make an SVT vehicle. Is it really so difficult to add a little performance to an existing vehicle line? The GT500 came out, what, two years into the reign of the current Mustang generation? It took that long to drop a 5.4L V8 into the engine bay, mess with the suspension, put on some bigger brakes and wheels, and change some of the styling? I like the GT500 but it seems like a relatively simple idea that took an excessive amount of time to execute.

On top of that, I'm not completely sold on the 5.4L V8. Lots of power, yes, but I'm willing to bet that Ford could have done just as well if they stuck with the '03/'04 SVT Cobra powerplant. You wouldn't get the vaunted 500 horsepower but you know Ford could have squeezed more power out of it. Use an aluminum block like the Mustang GTs and you're talking over 80% of the horsepower of the GT500, but over a hundred pounds off the front end, since the aluminum 4.6L block weighs well under half of that of an iron 5.4L block. Furthermore, the carryover of the 4.6L engine would probably have saved development costs that could have been shifted toward the sometimes-criticized suspension, not that Ford would need to mess with it since weight distribution wouldn't be as big of a problem.
 
#17 · (Edited)
napolron said:
I disagree. The fact that Kia is looking into a small pickup, and toyota is putting tons on the line with the new Tundra and a possible heavy duty version, id say pickups are a pretty hot topic in Japan.

Japan already has their cars pretty well established in the U.S. Now they're looking to fill in the rest of their lineup.
You just made my point. Toyota got rich on CARS now they have the luxury of doing a truck. The trucks are just the gravy on top of the mashed potatoes they already own. Toyota could dump that truck tomorrow and not blink and still be the richest car company on the planet. If Ford truck sales died tomorrow Ford goes down. That's why they are called CAR companies. Ford and GM got confused and thought they were truck companies and lost their shirt along with their market share. MACK is a truck company.
 
#18 ·
yoblues said:
That's why they are called CAR companies. Ford and GM got confused and thought they were truck companies and lost their shirt along with their market share. MACK is a truck company.
People want trucks and SUVs and they are also willing to pay premium prices for them. GM and Ford do the smart thing and make great trucks and SUVs. Sounds like a good business decision to me.
 
#19 ·
MN12Fan said:
What I don't get is why it seems to take so much effort just to make an SVT vehicle. Is it really so difficult to add a little performance to an existing vehicle line? The GT500 came out, what, two years into the reign of the current Mustang generation? It took that long to drop a 5.4L V8 into the engine bay, mess with the suspension, put on some bigger brakes and wheels, and change some of the styling? I like the GT500 but it seems like a relatively simple idea that took an excessive amount of time to execute.

On top of that, I'm not completely sold on the 5.4L V8. Lots of power, yes, but I'm willing to bet that Ford could have done just as well if they stuck with the '03/'04 SVT Cobra powerplant. You wouldn't get the vaunted 500 horsepower but you know Ford could have squeezed more power out of it. Use an aluminum block like the Mustang GTs and you're talking over 80% of the horsepower of the GT500, but over a hundred pounds off the front end, since the aluminum 4.6L block weighs well under half of that of an iron 5.4L block. Furthermore, the carryover of the 4.6L engine would probably have saved development costs that could have been shifted toward the sometimes-criticized suspension, not that Ford would need to mess with it since weight distribution wouldn't be as big of a problem.
If I am paying over $40K, I want all 500HP at the minor cost of 100lbs. If I was on a racetrack everyday, maybe then I would be concerned. But come one. How many do that.
 
#20 ·
RamJet502 said:
People want trucks and SUVs and they are also willing to pay premium prices for them. GM and Ford do the smart thing and make great trucks and SUVs. Sounds like a good business decision to me.
I guess you have not been paying attention to the finacial state of these companies? GM will probably survive even if it's smaller, Ford could still go under.
 
#21 ·
yoblues said:
I guess you have not been paying attention to the finacial state of these companies? GM will probably survive even if it's smaller, Ford could still go under.

I am a complete bufoon when it comes to business. But why could Ford an GM still go under? DId they not just shed a ton of excess fat in facilities and employees, costing them billions. Did they both not in effect pay off their mortgage of most of their legacy costs? Do they both not have great new products hitting the streets now and much more later? Have they both not caught up to the best in quality and even exceeded some? Perception is finally starting to swing in their favor too and when that is in full swing - they will see a windfall too.

I see bright futures for them both, but again...please let me know if I am missing something obvious.
 
#22 ·
Cabana Boy said:
I am a complete bufoon when it comes to business. But why could Ford an GM still go under? DId they not just shed a ton of excess fat in facilities and employees, costing them billions. Did they both not in effect pay off their mortgage of most of their legacy costs? Do they both not have great new products hitting the streets now and much more later? Have they both not caught up to the best in quality and even exceeded some? Perception is finally starting to swing in their favor too and when that is in full swing - they will see a windfall too.

I see bright futures for them both, but again...please let me know if I am missing something obvious.
They shed a bunch of employees but the legacy costs are still HUGE! Sales are falling, and show no sign of turning around (Ford). Ford also just open up around $48 billlion in credit, by putting up the rights to the Ford name, almost all of their factories, trademarks like F150, Mustang, etc. Basically, if they don't pull out of the death spiral, they're finished. The problem is year, both Ford and GM may have great products coming out, but so does Toyota, and Toyota in most areas (save for fullsize trucks) is already ahead in the game. A lot of people who have been burned by lousy Ford and GM vehicles in the past will never come back, especially if they're satisfied with their imported sedans. I don't see any cold hard numbers that show that consumer preceptions on domestic quality (at least in the case of Ford) are improving. I know GM's corporate citizenship showed a recent positive uptick in a recent poll, but everything I've seen shows that American car shoppers still believe that Toyotas and Hondas are better built and more trouble free than Fords and Chevys.
 
#23 ·
igor said:
there are 2 things to note ..

1. Ford has noted a while back that SVT will NOT touch ALL Ford vehicles - they will focuse on 2 models: Mustang and a Truck.

2. Ford also hinted (and we know this by now quite reliably) that not all performance vehicles will come from SVT. Ford can put together a performance vehicle using regular company structures

SVT is basically becoming 1) Ford Performance parts developpers, 2) Ford's in-house hotrodder.

SVT might develop hte next ST Fusion suspension, or tune the chasis, but it will not be a turn-key SVT product the way the SVT Focus was ... the ST Fusion will come straight from Ford.

Igor
Igor - the problem is not that the SVT name isn't on the products, it's that the products don't exist. Where is the performance Focus (SVT or not)? Where is the performance Fusion (SVT or not)? Where is the performance RWD sedan (SVT or not)? Whether SVT develops it and calls it an ST, or an SVT, or Ford develops it in house, no one really cares. The GT500 is an SVT product, but if it didn't have the SVT badge, so what? If anything, I'd dump the SVT brand all together, or do what you mention, and make it synonomous with Ford Performance Parts. Then after SVT is dead, I'd sign a LONG TERM contract w/ Shelby, and have Shelby modified versions of select vehicles. Love him or hate him, the Shelby name resonates a lot more than the alphabest soup that is SVT. I can't wait for the Lincoln MKZSVT!
 
#24 ·
FoMoCo Fan said:
They shed a bunch of employees but the legacy costs are still HUGE! Sales are falling, and show no sign of turning around (Ford). Ford also just open up around $48 billlion in credit, by putting up the rights to the Ford name, almost all of their factories, trademarks like F150, Mustang, etc. Basically, if they don't pull out of the death spiral, they're finished. The problem is year, both Ford and GM may have great products coming out, but so does Toyota, and Toyota in most areas (save for fullsize trucks) is already ahead in the game. A lot of people who have been burned by lousy Ford and GM vehicles in the past will never come back, especially if they're satisfied with their imported sedans. I don't see any cold hard numbers that show that consumer preceptions on domestic quality (at least in the case of Ford) are improving. I know GM's corporate citizenship showed a recent positive uptick in a recent poll, but everything I've seen shows that American car shoppers still believe that Toyotas and Hondas are better built and more trouble free than Fords and Chevys.
Perception can change quicker than we all think, it is the product to market that takes time. Quality perception can be changed and it is starting already. Quality is up and there is a lot of proof of that. Just look at Toyota's recalls for one. Ford recalls on their newer products, mostly after about 2004, are almost nothing compared to the past. Fuel economy is another perception that can be changed and has started, and once domestics have all their hybrids in place, they can make the same FE brochure claims too, which will also brings customers back.

Also, Ford did not borrow 48 billion. They borrowed about 23 billion, and they only seeked about half of that at first, but realized it was more cost effective for them to borrow more now. I did similar when I re-financed my home last time. Instead of borrowing $380K, I added an additional $30K because the interest was under 5%. I used most of that money wisely and could not resist the cheap rate. Ford did the same thing and has not spent that money, it is there if they need it. If things turn around quick, they give it back quick. But they wanted to ensure that there was adequate and affordable fundage there for the turn around plans, rather than have things turn worst whereby borrowing that same money would have cost more. At least that's how it was explained to me.

And one final thing. Sure there are people who have been burned before by domestics, but what you are hearing now is lots of people blown away by how much they love their new domestics. Everyone seems to love their new Aura's, Tahoe's, Fusion's, Edges's, etc, etc. That word-of-mouth will spread faster than the old words. I bet within a couple years, most of the legacy quality problems will be a thing of the past.
 
#25 ·
Cabana Boy said:
Perception can change quicker than we all think, it is the product to market that takes time. Quality perception can be changed and it is starting already. Quality is up and there is a lot of proof of that. Just look at Toyota's recalls for one. Ford recalls on their newer products, mostly after about 2004, are almost nothing compared to the past. Fuel economy is another perception that can be changed and has started, and once domestics have all their hybrids in place, they can make the same FE brochure claims too, which will also brings customers back.

Also, Ford did not borrow 48 billion. They borrowed about 23 billion, and they only seeked about half of that at first, but realized it was more cost effective for them to borrow more now. I did similar when I re-financed my home last time. Instead of borrowing $380K, I added an additional $30K because the interest was under 5%. I used most of that money wisely and could not resist the cheap rate. Ford did the same thing and has not spent that money, it is there if they need it. If things turn around quick, they give it back quick. But they wanted to ensure that there was adequate and affordable fundage there for the turn around plans, rather than have things turn worst whereby borrowing that same money would have cost more. At least that's how it was explained to me.

And one final thing. Sure there are people who have been burned before by domestics, but what you are hearing now is lots of people blown away by how much they love their new domestics. Everyone seems to love their new Aura's, Tahoe's, Fusion's, Edges's, etc, etc. That word-of-mouth will spread faster than the old words. I bet within a couple years, most of the legacy quality problems will be a thing of the past.
Japan Inc is still gaining market share. Ford has 5 years tops to turn it around.
 
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