Ford's Battery Supply

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Thread: Ford's Battery Supply

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    Ford's Battery Supply

    This is the first time I've seen any word on Ford expanding its battery production. Currently Ford batteries are supplied by LG Chem out of Holland Michigan, but Ford needs way more than LG can supply and and partnered with SK Innovations to get a plant built in the US for additional production. But a legal dispute between LG and SK is disrupting that and could imperil the launch of the F-150 BEV and beyond.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/21/...-feud-vw-ford/

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    Sounds like 77 former LG employees were hired by SK Innovations,
    the claim is that sensitive details were revealed in resumes and
    a whole bunch of confidential files were downloaded from LG
    before staff left......something about pouch battery technology.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Sounds like 77 former LG employees were hired by SK Innovations,
    the claim is that sensitive details were revealed in resumes and
    a whole bunch of confidential files were downloaded from LG
    before staff left......something about pouch battery technology.
    Is that the same pouch technology that GM thought was patented?

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    Pouch is a type of battery but the technology/chemistry, manufacturing processes
    and materials needed is very much proprietary secrets.

    Tesla is also suing Rivian for a pattern of employees departing an taking company secrets with them
    so there's a bit of intrigue going on . Some gifted people don't realise that if they work for companies,
    they just can't walk out the door with their work/ideas.
    Last edited by jpd80; 07-24-2020 at 06:23 PM.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Pouch is a type of battery but the technology/chemistry, manufacturing processes
    and materials needed is very much proprietary secrets.

    Tesla is also suing Rivian for a pattern of employees departing an taking company secrets with them
    so there's a bit of intrigue going on . Some gifted people don't realise that if they work for companies,
    they just can't walk out the door with their work/ideas.
    Actually you can walk out with ideas unless you signed a non-compete. You can't walk out with documents. And of course, the idea is not encumbered by a patent. From what I've read it was salary data. Big whup.

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    Yeah, HR Recruiting templates and whatnot but I'm betting that they use it as patterning for
    a wider investigation, Tesla recently won a similar case with a smaller start up and I wonder
    if they will use that same kind of tracing software to prove what documents were taken by
    the other 76 former employees.

    Different country but some employment agreements stipulate any ideas and innovation developed
    while working for that company becomes their IP. Once it's more than just an idea in your head
    an becomes something in their company records it can become stolen workplace documents.
    Last edited by jpd80; 07-25-2020 at 04:09 AM.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Yeah, HR Recruiting templates and whatnot but I'm betting that they use it as patterning for
    a wider investigation, Tesla recently won a similar case with a smaller start up and I wonder
    if they will use that same kind of tracing software to prove what documents were taken by
    the other 76 former employees.

    Different country but some employment agreements stipulate any ideas and innovation developed
    while working for that company becomes their IP. Once it's more than just an idea in your head
    an becomes something in their company records it can become stolen workplace documents.
    Without actual document(electronic or paper) theft, the case is never won. Look at the recent Google self drive case. It was all about the guy walking with terabytes of data. You simply cannot call theft what is in someone's head. I work in a very IP centric area. Most companies get their ideas from uni student thesis work. The general flow is student does PhD, student's work looks great, student is hired by company A. Student brings work to commercial success at A. Student moves to company B. Student using the same ideas re-implements concept at company B. Ironically, the B company usually gets a better version as it is student's second effort. I've seen it several times. Math is hard, math can't be patented.

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    But that's what I was saying, once those ideas are documented and part of company projects, the originator just can't take those docunents.

    Apparently, Tesla now has tracking software that can show records of what actual documents were downloaded by people before they left the company, it was that software that was used to prove a recent case against a small start up.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    I believe there is a difference between stealing the documents from the company by downloading files - which, as mentioned, Tesla can trace back - and using the knowledge one has - by a PhD research and previous experience e.g. - despite being documented in company projects. If so, it is necessary to find the evidence of a "physical theft". No?

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by passis View Post
    I believe there is a difference between stealing the documents from the company by downloading files - which, as mentioned, Tesla can trace back - and using the knowledge one has - by a PhD research and previous experience e.g. - despite being documented in company projects. If so, it is necessary to find the evidence of a "physical theft". No?
    If you look at the post I was replying to, it implied ideas could not be taken. I responded that if it is in your head, you can unless protected by patent. As to downloading, well again it depends. If you are working at home, you may have documents at home. At separation those documents should be deleted (electronic) or destroyed/returned if physical. Lastly I'll state again, my understanding as to what was taken was salary data by someone in HR. How hard is it to remember we pay engineers of this type around 150K. I imagine those sorts of numbers are in HR people's heads. Now if they know John is making 152,500 and Jim is making 154,400 because they have a file in front of them, then yes that is theft. But just because you downloaded that file while employed with access to it does not mean you kept it after you quit. And the courts are going to agree. Again, see the google/waymo case. They found files on the guy's drives after termination. The downloading act may get you a subpoena to examine the drive, but not a conviction unless the files are still there.

    If someone else is aware of theft of more than salary data, I'd be interested in seeing the link.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    About 10 years ago, I left a place many people were fleeing, one guy was going to a direct competitor of the product he managed, (pricing and customer lists) IT was able to look into his PC and see he did several large downloads, his former boss called him, went to his house and said "you don't want to do this" he handed over the files.
    (probably after uploading somewhere else at home, that the company couldn't track, but the drama was over)

    When I left, I received a letter, reminding me of the confidentiality agreement I had signed when I was hired, 6 years prior, they also sent the reminder to the HR department of my new company, since part to of my job was to distribute data; burned to CD's, FTP and/or email, it was almost impossible to tell what if anything, I did illegitimately.
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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Mother is sue happy lately. If Ultium tech shows up anywhere, you bet mother is going to come after them.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Unless its critical/technical/engineering data that is protected, no court in the country is going to rule against the person. The courts will always err on the side of the individual and their rights, as there is no way to completely separate knowledge/experience from that person, unless it is a deliberate patent theft type situation. (see the Chinese targeting labs and sending data back to the home country).
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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Yeah, HR Recruiting templates and whatnot but I'm betting that they use it as patterning for
    a wider investigation, Tesla recently won a similar case with a smaller start up and I wonder
    if they will use that same kind of tracing software to prove what documents were taken by
    the other 76 former employees.

    Different country but some employment agreements stipulate any ideas and innovation developed
    while working for that company becomes their IP. Once it's more than just an idea in your head
    an becomes something in their company records it can become stolen workplace documents.
    You put what you like in a contract but whether it holds up in a court of law is another matter.

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    Re: Ford's Battery Supply

    Quote Originally Posted by CJH View Post
    Unless its critical/technical/engineering data that is protected, no court in the country is going to rule against the person. The courts will always err on the side of the individual and their rights, as there is no way to completely separate knowledge/experience from that person, unless it is a deliberate patent theft type situation. (see the Chinese targeting labs and sending data back to the home country).
    Man, you still have a lot of faith in the courts. From my standpoint, they look corrupt to the core. I don’t believe the average American can get a fair trial anymore

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