Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

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Thread: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

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    Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Ford F series and Lincoln Navigator are both up though.

    Highlights:

    Escape - 7.9%
    Edge - 4.5%
    Flex -12.4%
    Explorer - 6.5%
    Expedition -10.2%

    Fiesta + 3.2%

    Focus - 9.2%
    Fusion -18.9%
    Taurus -20.4%
    Mustang - 4.9%

    F Series +4.9%

    Heavy Trucks -10.9%

    MKZ -32.5
    Continental -28.3

    MKC -8.7
    MKX -13.1
    MKT -25.9
    Navigator +82.4

    https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...june-sales.pdf

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Wow, that's bad when looking at the YTD results. Everything is down except for the F Series, Fiesta, Police Interceptor, Transit and Navigator.

    I love their line, presumably addressing the month results, but let's apply it to their YTD results "Industry shift to trucks and SUV's play to our strength's". How can they be down in virtually all their CUV's in this market?

    Presumably this has something to do with fleet sales, but we've been told that these are highly profitable for Ford, so back to being bad again....

    The bad news...............

    These aren't one-month "blips".

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Announcing Ford is leaving most car sales except for the mustang and focus crosstrek can’t be good for present sales...

    Who wants a soon to be discontinued model without heavy incentives.

    That was a Ford management play to excite Wall Street now and it seems to have backfired.

    Well 2percent isn’t that big a drop.

    Hopefully fords release of the ev sport cuv names Mach one will be a repeat of the 1964 successful mustang release...

    I think if a five seater four door sport cuv ev...it will be...and of course Ford stock should go up a healthy amount.....

    Good plan...on the sedan drop but ford should have announced it in 2020or whenever the announcement actually was occurring...not before..

    Would have played better and they could have subsidized remaining inventory for a shot up in sales.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    The new navigator and aviator especially are awesome vehicles...

    I really am impressed with the aviator..that I saw in NY last april

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Wow, that's bad when looking at the YTD results. Everything is down except for the F Series, Fiesta, Police Interceptor, Transit and Navigator.

    I love their line, presumably addressing the month results, but let's apply it to their YTD results "Industry shift to trucks and SUV's play to our strength's". How can they be down in virtually all their CUV's in this market?

    Presumably this has something to do with fleet sales, but we've been told that these are highly profitable for Ford, so back to being bad again....
    A big problem is that the entire lineup outside of F-series, Expy, and Mustang is old vs the competition. Coming redesigns should help bump numbers up.

    -EcoSport is new to market, so I'll ignore it.
    -Escape - new for 2013, refresh in 2017......it's about to be redesigned for 2020
    -Edge - the newest crossover aside from EcoSport - new for 2015, and is getting a refresh for 2019, which should help.
    -Explorer - dates back to 2011! With refreshes in 2016 and a minor one for 2018.
    -Flex - dates back to 2009! with a minor refresh for 2013
    -Expy is new

    Lincoln is a bit better on the "newness" scale, but still has some products in need of updates. MKC/MKX were hit fairly heavily early on this year with fleet reductions.

    -MKC - new for 2015, new grille for '19 - redesign for 2020......it definitely needs an update.
    -MKX/Nautilus - new for 2016, refresh/name change for '19
    -MKT - dates back to 2010, minor refresh for 2013 - thankfully replaced by Aviator for 2020 - many think this will be Lincoln's biggest seller, or close to it.
    -Navigator is new.

    Sedans perhaps aren't worth discussing, but it's the same problem there - products are all old, no wonder they're dropping (though they may have dropped anyway if new, see: Accord).

    Fields really screwed things up with his "delay everything" product "plan". Redesigns for products that were already old were pushed back even further.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Wow, that's bad when looking at the YTD results. Everything is down except for the F Series, Fiesta, Police Interceptor, Transit and Navigator.

    I love their line, presumably addressing the month results, but let's apply it to their YTD results "Industry shift to trucks and SUV's play to our strength's". How can they be down in virtually all their CUV's in this market?

    Presumably this has something to do with fleet sales, but we've been told that these are highly profitable for Ford, so back to being bad again....

    GM told us the fleet-rental numbers were just timing, so I assume it'll level out, but even the rental agencies don't want as many sedans, the last time I flew to Atlanta, "Any Car" had a good selection of New-Trax, Equinox's & Acadia's and the old Traverse.

    But GM sure seems to be pushing at least some cars to the rental companies; here are the heavy-hitters for 2018; sure hope this is all timing!
    (explains why the fleet/retail and inventory details sheet disappeared!)

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Wow, that's bad when looking at the YTD results. Everything is down except for the F Series, Fiesta, Police Interceptor, Transit and Navigator.

    I love their line, presumably addressing the month results, but let's apply it to their YTD results "Industry shift to trucks and SUV's play to our strength's". How can they be down in virtually all their CUV's in this market?

    Presumably this has something to do with fleet sales, but we've been told that these are highly profitable for Ford, so back to being bad again....
    Ford is basically down across the board outside of the F-series. Their crossovers being down for the year is really disturbing.

    This is alarming in a time when nearly any POS sells if it’s a crossover. It’s the growth market in the industry now, and Ford is stacked with crossover offerings.

    Even the Nissan Rogue is a hot seller, and it’s exceedingly average.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    GM told us the fleet-rental numbers were just timing, so I assume it'll level out, but even the rental agencies don't want as many sedans, the last time I flew to Atlanta, "Any Car" had a good selection of New-Trax, Equinox's & Acadia's and the old Traverse.

    But GM sure seems to be pushing at least some cars to the rental companies; here are the heavy-hitters for 2018; sure hope this is all timing!
    (explains why the fleet/retail and inventory details sheet disappeared!)

    That's fine, but it doesn't explain Ford's YTD performance.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    But GM sure seems to be pushing at least some cars to the rental companies; here are the heavy-hitters for 2018; sure hope this is all timing!
    (explains why the fleet/retail and inventory details sheet disappeared!)

    Thank you for sharing this data Ed753. Once again, you are doing VerticalScope's job (that they apparently won't do) by providing the kind of "inside info" that GM Inside News members will find useful and interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by member12 View Post
    Even the Nissan Rogue is a hot seller, and it’s exceedingly average.
    Acknowledging I'm not a fan of current generation Nissan & Infiniti vehicles in general, Rogue is one of Nissan's better products. It may be average, but it does provide everything that customers expect in the segment: spacious interior, decent performance and fuel efficiency, comfortable ride, reasonably good reliability, standard automated emergency braking, and a very good feature set for the money. A 2018 Rogue SV Premium Package FWD includes heated seats & steering wheel, power driver seat with memory, 360 degree camera, built-in satnav, blind-spot monitoring & rear cross traffic alert, motion activated power tailgate, dual zone automatic climate control, smart key/keyless access, remote start, and adaptive cruise control for less than $29k MSRP.

    A comparably equipped Ford Escape, Chevy Equinox, or Jeep Cherokee costs several thousands more.
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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    That's fine, but it doesn't explain Ford's YTD performance.
    See rmc523's post #5. Very logical explanation for Ford's sales performance so far this year.
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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Ford sales numbers are easy to explain as it applies to crossovers. Put simply Escape, Edge, and Explorer are all ancient fundamentally, as in genuinely ancient. Despite two refreshes Escape is basically the same crossover Europe was selling as the Kuga ten years ago, the Explorer is on it's eighth year as basically the same vehicle, and the Edge is more or less the same basic vehicle Ford introduced in 2007 having undergone one mild MCE and one major MCE. I'm amazed that all of these vehicles haven't outright tanked at this point because I don't think any of them hide their age very well. The fact that they still sell as well as they do makes me wonder what will happen when Ford delivers genuinely new product to those segments. Either way, Ford has got to quit using the same basic vehicle, just refreshed to death, in these segments. Flex is a dead van walking, so I'm not sure it even deserves a mention.

    I think the real stories here is Expedition. Ford keeps making the same low production capacity mistake with vehicles in segments Ford hasn't lately done particularly well within, which basically prevents them from doing well moving forward in spite of how good the vehicle might be. My concern there is that Ford keeps not learning what seems to be a very obvious lesson to me.

    I'm assuming sedans need virtually no explanation at this point for obvious reasons. RMC covered the majority of this, I just wanted to add a couple thoughts of my own.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    See rmc523's post #5. Very logical explanation for Ford's sales performance so far this year.
    Nothing I didn't already know. Just making a point about the treatment of GM vs. Ford. All logical explanations for Ford, but if the same were applied to GM it will be labeled as "excuses" and "apologist" talk. But ultimately, how does a company let virtually its entire lineup get stale? There is no surprise that sales decline as a vehicle ages, there should be a constant replacement cycle, some new vehicles, some middle aged and some old that will smooth out the declines.

    While not an excuse, I do understand how Cadillac became a train wreck - revolving executive suite holding up decisions and delaying product to the point they had a huge dearth of new product. There was no excuse for GM to let that happen, but it did, and I get it. However, I don't understand how a mainstream make, such as Ford, with relative executive stability, is such a one trick pony (F Series) at this point. Maybe product coming out in the next year or two will be brilliant, but again, if I said that about GM the retort will be "I've heard that story - wait until the next generation comes out, we will really show them!"

    I sat here reading with all knowing assurances "wait until you see the new Lincoln vehicles coming out, they will take the market by storm". What did we get? We got a bunch of fwd baleen whales.

    I think Ford is a fine company, but it is no better or worse than GM in terms of management expertise. I'm sorry about the rant, not directed at you, just at the Ford fans who come on GMI to "correct" us GM imbeciles.

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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Nothing I didn't already know. Just making a point about the treatment of GM vs. Ford. All logical explanations for Ford, but if the same were applied to GM it will be labeled as "excuses" and "apologist" talk. But ultimately, how does a company let virtually its entire lineup get stale? There is no surprise that sales decline as a vehicle ages, there should be a constant replacement cycle, some new vehicles, some middle aged and some old that will smooth out the declines.

    While not an excuse, I do understand how Cadillac became a train wreck - revolving executive suite holding up decisions and delaying product to the point they had a huge dearth of new product. There was no excuse for GM to let that happen, but it did, and I get it. However, I don't understand how a mainstream make, such as Ford, with relative executive stability, is such a one trick pony (F Series) at this point. Maybe product coming out in the next year or two will be brilliant, but again, if I said that about GM the retort will be "I've heard that story - wait until the next generation comes out, we will really show them!"

    I sat hear reading with all knowing assurances "wait until you see the new Lincoln vehicles coming out, they will take the market by storm". What did we get? We got a bunch of fwd baleen whales.

    I think Ford is a fine company, but it is no better or worse than GM in terms of management expertise. I'm sorry about the rant, not directed at you, just at the Ford fans who come on GMI to "correct" us GM imbeciles.
    Thanks BlackGTP.

    You actually nailed it in terms of why much of Ford's product lineup got stale in the past five years: "relative executive stability". In particular, Mark Fields stayed cushy in his job as Ford CEO and was slow in making decisions. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did at Ford.

    When "stability" among top executives is paired with complacency, as in Ford's case during the Mark Fields era, the results are predictable.
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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Those Lincoln numbers are dismal. Sales down big time on everything except the Navigator. Sedans and crossovers all tanking. I thought that the name "Continental" was supposed to resonate with customers. Now they are hovering at 500 units/month and down 28% on the year. Not good. And all we hear about is that they can't build enough of the Navigator. Some here seem to gloat about that, but it's actually disturbing and shows the incompetence of the product planners. You have one vehicle in your lineup that is selling and you can't find a way to build them?

    On the Ford side, why did they delay the product cycle on so many of their vehicles across the board? Did all their resources go to the F150? Something doesn't seem right in the Ford executive suite.
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    Re: Ford sales down 1.8% YTD for 2018, even some crossovers are seeing a slow down

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    That's fine, but it doesn't explain Ford's YTD performance.
    What needs to be explained?

    Ford is down 1.8% with lower rental fleet sales, GM is up 4.2% with higher fleet sales.

    The question isn't; "Why is Ford down; it is why (or how) is GM up? - Certainly the new product is helping GM sales, but so is the higher rental sales.

    Also we learned a few months back that Ford has restricted Lincoln sales/use for executives, to shore-up used-inventory/demand.

    That list only contained the ones that were exceptionally high, there are others.


    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Thank you for sharing this data Ed753. Once again, you are doing VerticalScope's job (that they apparently won't do) by providing the kind of "inside info" that GM Inside News members will find useful and interesting.
    I do what I do...................

    There may have been others I overlooked, honestly I just skimmed the list; I should go back through it...............

    Yup I did miss a few!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Acknowledging I'm not a fan of current generation Nissan & Infiniti vehicles in general, Rogue is one of Nissan's better products. It may be average, but it does provide everything that customers expect in the segment: spacious interior, decent performance and fuel efficiency, comfortable ride, reasonably good reliability, standard automated emergency braking, and a very good feature set for the money. A 2018 Rogue SV Premium Package FWD includes heated seats & steering wheel, power driver seat with memory, 360 degree camera, built-in satnav, blind-spot monitoring & rear cross traffic alert, motion activated power tailgate, dual zone automatic climate control, smart key/keyless access, remote start, and adaptive cruise control for less than $29k MSRP.

    A comparably equipped Ford Escape, Chevy Equinox, or Jeep Cherokee costs several thousands more.
    Exactly why I have one in the driveway today! Except I sprung for the AWD and if had to do it all over I would without hesitation, been great so far.

    FWIW: Rogue is 52% fleet for 2018 - I'm sure most of that is just timing!
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