What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

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Thread: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

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    What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    This is just me daydreaming, but what if GM worked with Honda to build that coupe just like Subaru and Toyota did. Honda used to sell performance cars for the masses, Acura used to have the RSX and the integra both cars that were very popular with young drivers. Now Honda makes mostly boring cars outside of the civic SI (depending on your tastes) and the Accord, which has a good CVT but still has a CVT. Im sure they would be very content to appeal to young drivers again particularly with the launch of the 2015 NSX as their halo car. On the other hand, Reuss would like to build a small RWD lightweight coupe, but doesn't want to use the alpha platform since its not as scalable and efficient. the 2 company co-developing that car could be beneficial for both of them. Honda used to have the S2000, but now they dont have a RWD platform anymore, meanwhile im sure GM could use alot of their learnings with the Alpha platform to develop another lightweight one if they have help. They could even use one of those high revving v-tec engines which, imo, have a TON more personality than the 2.0 boxer engine found in the FR-S/BRZ.

    So what do you guys think of the idea? Do you think its realistic?

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    I don't think Honda has any real history of partnering with domestic manufacturers in the US. The others in Japan have been more willing to collaborate.

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    How about GM use its' diverse, global resources. This would be a global car, get Holden, Chevy, Opel...ect involved. I can say that I wouldn't buy that Chevy with the Honda engine.
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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by swagled View Post
    I don't think Honda has any real history of partnering with domestic manufacturers in the US. The others in Japan have been more willing to collaborate.
    GM did somewhat partnered with Honda for a while with the first generation Saturn vue, Honda supplied gm with their 3.5 v6 engine for use in it until gm came out with the 3.6

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    I'm sure it could be done, but the idea doesn't sit well with me, especially if a Honda engine is used. I've never been excited by their low torque, high rpm engines though respect the engineering involved - assuming a Honda engine is used in this scenario.

    I don't see why GM can't build their own chassis, GM is large enough that they can go it alone.

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    I have nothing against partnering with another company, even Ford, but they should use their own engines and their own dashboards (at least instrument pods) and their own front and rear clip designs to have their own character...

    I'd prefer an engine like the 2.5 tickled by Cosworth for more power and mid-range torque...







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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I'm sure it could be done, but the idea doesn't sit well with me, especially if a Honda engine is used. I've never been excited by their low torque, high rpm engines though respect the engineering involved - assuming a Honda engine is used in this scenario.

    I don't see why GM can't build their own chassis, GM is large enough that they can go it alone.
    Somehow I don't see Honda agreeing to the use of a GM engine in any hypothetical co-developed car, even though a de-tuned LTG or the 2.5L would probably be much better suited to a lightweight RWD application than a VTEC variant. I agree, if GM is going to develop a smaller platform for a compact RWD coupe/sedan, they've got more than ample engineering resources to develop in house.

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Maybe they could even partner with Toyota when they decide to make the twins good looking...









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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Partner with Honda to fix the LTG.

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    No chance. Honda is probably Japan's most stubborn "go-my-own-way" car company. Nissan has a cooperation with Renault (and Mercedes), Mazda with Ford, Toyota has a number of alliances. Why should Honda? It already manifested itself in the U.S. convincingly. The next NSX will reportedly be built in Ohio.
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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Honda isn't that stubborn. Remember their long-running partnership with Rover?
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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    interesting comments so far.

    I don't deny that GM has enough resource to develop their own RWD platform on their own, but I think Toyota did too, its a matter of having a big enough incentive to do it.

    its been mentioned that both car should have their own engines and I think that would be a great way to differentiate them. I like VTEC engines, even if they have no low end torque, it's a lot of fun to try and keep them in their power band. When the 2.4 comes out with direct injection itll be a pretty good naturally aspirated four cylinder and have a bit more low end torque to at least be competitive with other engines.

    On the other hand, a Cosworth turned 2.5 ecotec sounds really cool, as well as a detuned 2.0T, which would appeal a lot to tuners.

    Theres something else that im asking myself, aren't OHV engine lighter than their DOHC counterpart? and have better low-end torque. because that new 4.3 would make a crazy burnout machine in a lightweight RWD chassis and use its active fuel management feature even more. But I don't know much about the 4.3 to really know if its feasible

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by majicbz07 View Post
    GM did somewhat partnered with Honda for a while with the first generation Saturn vue, Honda supplied gm with their 3.5 v6 engine for use in it until gm came out with the 3.6
    That was more of a trade. Honda was supplying GM engines in trade for something else, I can't remember if it was transmissions or something else. That being said, the Honda 3.5 was a godsend for the VUE, it was a dog with both the 2.2 Ecotec and the 3.0 54 degree V6

    The problem was, the VUE was already selling better then the L-series which should have been allocated the 3.5 over the VUE. That being said, even thought I sold Saturns for a while, the interior disaster that was the trio of the VUE, L-series, and ION, made me want to puke every day I went to work.

    I preferred selling the used cars, pretty sad when the best Saturn interiors (and exterior designs) were the used SC coupes.
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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by free_energy0 View Post
    Partner with Honda to fix the LTG.
    What's wrong with the LTG?

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    Re: What about a GM-Honda partnership for the small RWD lightweight coupe

    Quote Originally Posted by unkillsam View Post
    That was more of a trade. Honda was supplying GM engines in trade for something else, I can't remember if it was transmissions or something else. That being said, the Honda 3.5 was a godsend for the VUE, it was a dog with both the 2.2 Ecotec and the 3.0 54 degree V6

    The problem was, the VUE was already selling better then the L-series which should have been allocated the 3.5 over the VUE. That being said, even thought I sold Saturns for a while, the interior disaster that was the trio of the VUE, L-series, and ION, made me want to puke every day I went to work.

    I preferred selling the used cars, pretty sad when the best Saturn interiors (and exterior designs) were the used SC coupes.
    I believe the trade was proposed by Honda to GM where GM could use the 3.5 (and 5 speed auto tranny) in one vehicle in North America, while Honda received a diesel engine to be sold in the Civic in Europe...

    I think the idea to use the 3.5 in the VUE was one of the better decisions by GM in the 2000's. The L Series was too far gone by 2004, the first year of the Honda 3.5 in the VUE. The car just wasn't very good and had been a sales and PR disaster for Saturn. The car only lasted one more model year on the market, and Saturn made it a shortened model year at that. The 3.5 would not have saved it.

    The VUE, on the other hand, was part of the early cuv movement in the States and proved to be relatively popular right out of the chute. Its interior left a little to be desired, but as you stated, it was the power trains that were the real embarrassment. The 4 cylinder/VTi tranny combo was a GM experiment gone wrong (dropped for '05, replaced by a traditional 4 spd. auto). The 3.0 V6 had no guts whatsoever. Using the 3.5 in the (potentially) far more profitable VUE was the right call.


    When GM put the 3.5 in the VUE for '04, it really set itself apart from the competition(and from its forthcoming GM Theta brethren, the Chevy Equinox & Pontiac Torrent). Ironically, the ability to get the Honda 3.5 in the Saturn VUE, but not in Honda's sales champ CR-V, helped Saturn to go toe to toe sales-wise with Honda in many markets in the U.S.... Remember, Saturn's dealer coverage was only a little more than half of what Honda's was at the time. For '04 & '05, the 3.5 equipped VUE was the quickest mainstream SUV/CUV available in the U.S. market. As GM totally redesigned the interior and updated the exterior for '06, the VUE, armed with the Honda 3.5 (and Honda tranny) was a very desirable CUV... I can't tell you how many Honda converts I sold VUEs and later Auras & Skies to because of GM using the 3.5 in the VUE... It made Honda, and import intenders in general, consider shopping Saturn/GM...
    Last edited by Quixote88; 05-19-2013 at 11:16 AM.

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