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A Kinder, Gentler Escalade

11K views 112 replies 32 participants last post by  Sal Collaziano 
#1 ·
Somebody is pissing in my Wheaties this morning...

The automaker is weighing whether several vehicle options for Cadillac, Mark Reuss, president of GM North America, said in an interview last month. Executives are considering a sedan larger than the XTS, a sport-utility vehicle smaller than the SRX and a new Escalade on the same vehicle architecture as the popular Buick Enclave, Reuss said.
Part of the discussion has involved changing the Escalade, which has been designed as a body-on-frame vehicle like a pickup, into a crossover model with a unibody structure to improve the mileage, Reuss said. “If we were to do that, it would be something not like a Lambda today, but rather something that makes a different statement,” Reuss said. “It could look bigger than that.”
Oh, it could look bigger. That's nice... Read the full article here.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Reuss sucks if he does not get the Escalade. They are going to kill the vehicle that saved Cadillac from Death!!

We have seen the FWD Cadillac movie Reuss, and it had a horrible ending.

Keep it BOF, but put it on an extreme Engineering diet.. like the ATS or base it on the New bad ass Cadillac RWD architecture.. Making it from a Chevrolet Traverse is not a good thing,
 
#81 ·
All true. It makes no compromises.

Rappers and high rollers aren't going to want to ride around in glorified mini-vans.
Does anyone? Mark Reuss needs to get away from minivans.

How many Cadillac owners care if it's a truck based BOF vehicle? None. GM needs a proper RWD unibody platform for Cadillac (and others) that could be used for large sedans and something like the Escalade.
People want a loud, impactful, enormous SUV. They want a statement, not a fuel efficient castrato of a truck.

I thought this rumor had already been dispelled and the Escalade was to be BOF for the next generation? I certainly have no interest in a Lambda vehicle regardless of badge at this point, specifically not one that would require a transverse V8.
I don't think a transverse would fit. Wasn't Lambda designed for only ONE engine?

Of course GM has a 3.0 Turbo and a 3.6 Turbo coming...
I'm absolutely sick and tired of having to justify a turbo 6 as a replacement for a V8. I don't even care at this point. The more they push turbo 6's on me, the less receptive I am to them. I'm tired of it. ATS, okay, who cares. It's a performance car with a performance engine. Sure. The CTS? That's a tough sell, even for me. I don't even care about the XTS. It's worthless to me at this point. Cadillac needs products that speak for themselves, without the need for justification. I don't CARE if it has 50 more HP than a V8. I WANT A V8.

The LX570 is quite frankly bad, its the anonymous and very aesthetically challenged opposite of the Escalade. The Navigator is a depreciation disaster and quite frankly its hard to even consider even at a price far less than the Escalade considering the QX56 is relatively inexpernsive. The QX is pretty amazing in some ways its a better drive than the Escalade, and its interior shades the Escalade except for style in my opinion.
Most Lexuses are anonymous and aesthetically challenged. A Lexus doesn't make a statement. A Cadillac does. The QX is the only thing I would even consider outside of a G-Class. It's a VERY distant second, and the G isn't luxurious enough. It makes the right statement, though. I'd take it in a second over the Escalade if the general formula for it changed. The only thing that has me bound to the Escalade is the sheer impressive look of it, the cavernous cabin space... I'm fairly thin, and I remember riding in the front seat and actually sliding sometimes when we had one.

I can not let myself believe the decisions being made at Cadillac, possibly I am stubborn against change but I prefer a powerful V8. Cadillac is that too much to ask, should not a Cadillac have a smooth, and latently powerful V8?
You may very well be, but not in this case. Cadillac cannot remove V8s from their lineups. I want a CTS with a V8, too. Will I get one with a turbo 6? I guess so. Cadillac is abusing a loyal base...

Pearls Rider mentioned a regular Escalade on Lambda and an ESV body on frame - and I thought that idea was okay. Maybe they'd sell more SUVs that way and cater to both crowds. All I know is there has to be one full-size Escalade the way we're used to it - at least for now...
NO. The ESV is of laughable proportions. The standard Escalade is extremely well proportioned. The ESV throws off the beauty of the vehicle and is a step towards overcompensating. (no offense, Sal) Nobody would cross shop an Enclave and an Escalade. As someone who's been in both, the Enclave is a step FAR below the Escalade. It's stumpy and looks like a toilet paper tube with the sides rolling up towards the roof. It's great for Buick. Stay the f away from my standard body Escalade.
 
#7 ·
I can't imagine this is technically feasable. The only way to make an Enclavalade that does well on fuel economy is to make it too small, too light, and too slow to be a proper Escalade.

There may be a business case for putting the equivalent of a fully loaded Enclave 2.0 into Cadillac showrooms alongside the Escalade, but even that I think is stupid. The platform sharing between the Escalade, Tahoe, and Yukon doesn't get much negative attention from the press or consumers, but I suspect throwing an Enclavalade alongside the Enclave, Acadia, and Traverse would get lots of snarky comments. It wouldn't bother me, but I believe I'm in the minority.
 
#11 ·
How about improving the current SRX rather than producing a smaller than SRX crossover. The same goes for the Escalade keep it BOF but reduce the weight significantly and add better engine choices to make it more fuel efficient. The aforementioned are not huge feats in engineering GM just has to see Cadillac and specifically the Escalade worth the investment.
 
#14 ·
If you look at the big luxury unibody SUVs like the new Infiniti QX, the Audi A7 (and corporate cousin the Volkswagen Touareg), BMW X5, Mercedes GL, etc... they're all near or above 5000 pounds and they're all smaller than the Escalade. The Escalade is not heavy for its class.
 
#13 ·
I believe if the SRX hadn't been cut down to a 2-row vehicle, we probably would not be discussing this. Get a RWD SRX based off of the Alpha, but also include a 7 seat option. I have another question...is Epsilon II just limited to cars?
 
#15 ·
No link to the source story Sal?

Cadillac could have a Lambda in addition to the Slade but replacing the Slade with a Lambda doesn't make sense. A Slade without a V8 would be a bad thing.

My guess is Mr. Ruess is making a statement like this one to gauge the reaction of Slade buyers.
 
#18 ·
why? it wouldnt fit with the direction is headed with cadillac at all. the escalade is a big, bold, in your face cadillac truck. the cadillac version of an acadia denali would be none of those things.

the escalade needs to stay what it is- no need to go chasing the imports with this one.
 
#20 ·
no, they dont care its BOF. but they do care about the presence it has on the road, in parking lots, etc. the statement it makes. a car based cuv like a durango or explorer wont give you that.
 
#24 ·
I thought this rumor had already been dispelled and the Escalade was to be BOF for the next generation? I certainly have no interest in a Lambda vehicle regardless of badge at this point, specifically not one that would require a transverse V8.
 
#25 ·
Apparently not, this isn't new and really isn't news. Yet another sad Cadillac prediction that seems to be comming true.
And the transverse V8 is way past dead too.. If this car/truck comes it will be another 3.6L "at best" offering.

We were all warned about 2 years ago...
 
#27 · (Edited)
I really hope this is more disinformation coming from GM. I don't care if a Lambda Escalade "looks" bigger than an Enclave. If I want an Escalade, it's because it IS big. Not because it LOOKS big. When I wanted an Escalade I wouldn't even accept the regular model - I bought the extended service vehicle (ESV). I've owned a Fleetwood Brougham, ESV, 750Li and LS460L. All as big as you can get.

First we hear rumors that the next Escalade made be on Lambda.
Second, we hear the next one will be body on frame.
Third, we hear the "Lambda" crossover has been canceled for Cadillac.
Fourth, we hear the next one is going to be on Lambda.

What the hell is going on? Maybe nobody should believe anything anymore. This is what they want, actually. They don't like information leaking and they seemed to have perfected FIXING the leaks...

I guess everybody waiting for the next Escalade should just go buy something else instead of waiting...
 
#45 ·
I really hope this is more disinformation coming from GM. I don't care if a Lambda Escalade "looks" bigger than an Enclave. If I want an Escalade, it's because it IS big. Not because it LOOKS big. Went I wanted an Escalade I wouldn't even accept the regular model - I bought the extended service vehicle (ESV). I've owned a Fleetwood Brougham, ESV, 750Li and LS460L. All as big as you can get.

First we hear rumors that the next Escalade made be on Lambda.
Second, we hear the next one will be body on frame.
Third, we hear the "Lambda" crossover has been canceled for Cadillac.
Fourth, we hear the next one is going to be on Lambda.

What the hell is going on? Maybe nobody should believe anything anymore. This is what they want, actually. They don't like information leaking and they seemed to have perfected FIXING the leaks...

I guess everybody waiting for the next Escalade should just go buy something else instead of waiting...
Sal man I LOVE your style. If your gonna own a flagship vehicle, give it the flagship dimensions :)
 
#29 ·
In terms of size, the Enclave is the same as the (non extended) Escalade in everything except height:
Enclave_: 201.8 inches long, 79.0 inches wide, 118.9 inch wheelbase, 8.4 inch ground clearance, 72.5 inches tall
Escalade: 202.5 inches long, 79.0 inches wide, 116.0 inch wheelbase, 9.0 inch ground clearance, 75.9 inches tall

The size of the Lambdas isn't the problem. The shape is the problem - the top isn't boxy, and while it looks aesthetically pleasing you lose the shoulder room, hip room, head room, and sense of spacious comfort that you would get in an Escalade (or a minivan, for that matter). Also the third row seat in the Enclave is much better than the third row seat in the (non extended) Escalade, but the second row seat in the Escalade trumps the second row seat in the Enclave. That second row needs to be fixed for the lambdas, period.

(If they fixed all that, I think the Lambdas would be dramatically improved. But they still wouldn't be suitable for Escalade duty without a massive powertrain upgrade.)
 
#32 ·
The REAL problem with lambda is the powertrain layout. This is simply yet another FWD offering for Cadillac, one that will replace a V8 RWD offering (STS, SRX anyone).

Again FWD cars and trucks are maxed out at 300ish HP, and that is simply not competitve anymore in Luxury offerings... And it is definately a huge step BACKWARD for anything called an Escalade.

At one time the Escalade was "The MOST POWERFUL SUV on the planet... maybe the universe" GM used to actually say that in print and televised comercials.

Lambda means that we just shuffle our feet and look at the ground and then try to justify why 300ish HP is plenty for a brand new luxury ute in 2013. While that might sound bad, by that time GM will have had a fair bit a of practice with the explanations that are expected to come from the XTS.
 
#44 ·
Am I the only one who thinks of Tony Soprano most of the time when I see or hear about an Escalade?
 
#46 ·
Whoa! If this happens, Old GM is alive and well somewhere inside of the new General Motors Company.

Maybe they should check their own history books. When they moved the Deville/Fleetwood to a FWD platform, everything looked great on paper and they fooled people for a while. But not long after, the Lincoln Town Car took the sales lead. In fact, the Escalade was the thing that got Cadillac back into the ballgame.

You can imagine them down at GM headquarters...

"Our customers are idiots, look at this survey, they don't even know the Escalade is RWD"
"Our customers are morons, look at this survey, they want 400HP but complain about the MPGs"

Except, enough of their customer base is "smart" and will spread the word to the other fools.
 
#55 ·
The grotesque and garish styling of the LX570 is why my otherwise Lexus-loyal parents bought a new QX56, which is also pretty darn ugly, but the Infiniti's engine, interior, handling, build quality, and value for money are vastly superior.

Infiniti has come a long way with its big SUV while Lexus has taken a couple steps backward.

They also own a 2004 LX470 which currently has 340k.


I am absolutely baffled by and disappointed in where Lexus is taking its interiors, especially the new RX.
 
#56 ·
I quite like the new RX interior, and remote touch even though in some ways it seems the material quality has fallen in some areas. I had a 2012 RX with 800 miles recently for a loaner, and I found much that was worse than even a previous RX350 I had driven a year or so ago. The engine at idle, and everywhere on the tach is no longer notable for NVH I felt as if the 2GR-FE has lost its NVH edge over the competition. The LX570 is a travesty in many ways, and its sad because your parents generation was an icon in many ways and well liked by its owners. I can understand why the QX is selling so good, as it better than almost any competitor aside from the Range Rover and GL and its far less expensive with a very notable interior.
 
#57 ·
The Escalade formula is simple, and explained below anything that diverges from that is not an Escalade.

Smooth, large , and latently powerful V8 with class leading or close to class leading power

Imposing and instantly noticeable road presence , with a shape that draws the eye

Class leading or equalling capabilities as far as utility, towing, and interior room

The Escalade is not a Range Rover, it is not a GL450/550 it is not an Acadia its excessive because thats what its owners desire.
 
#58 ·
I like the RX interior as well - but the build quality IS down compared to the last RX we owned, a 2000... But we know all about that as all Lexus products have suffered in quality. But I do like sitting in the RX. I think the center stack and dash works well when you're sitting in the vehicle - but badly when you're looking at pictures. Otherwise, the vehicle drives very nicely. And they even fixed that horrific "Cadillac DTS"-like turning radius back in 2004 - while Cadillac did nothing (frustrating)...

Otherwise... I like both the LX570 and QX56. I think the QX is definitely uglier. :p
 
#59 ·
The interior and the Remote Touch are still notable to me in many ways, and the materials quality that suffers in some ways is mainly noticeable to touch. I also feel like other manufacturers leather quality has caught up, as that was a traditional Lexus strong point with its amazing semi-aniline leather. My old RX400h, has better leather quality than the 2012 that I had and in fact the Nappa leather in my 300C is comparable with the 2012. They all shade the quite frankly dismal leather quality of my Escalade unfortunately.
 
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