Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

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Thread: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

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    Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    (Bloomberg)une 9, 2017, 10:30 pm-- BMW AG makes ultimate driving machines, but Tesla Inc.’s stock is the one that’s motoring.
    A rally in Tesla shares spurred by Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk’s confidence in selling electric vehicles at scale briefly vaulted the company’s market capitalization past the German luxury carmaker in early Friday trading. The amount of ground Tesla covered was vast: BMW was valued at a $30 billion premium as of early December.
    The abbreviated change in rank is no small matter. Luxury carmakers like BMW trade at a higher value than the likes of General Motors Co. or Ford Motor Co., which Tesla passed back in April. BMW has a powerful brand among car buffs and affluent consumers and its vehicles command premium prices and fatter margins. In bidding its market cap past BMW, Tesla investors are signaling confidence the company can go up against a formidable player that also sells electric cars -- and prevail.
    “The argument is that Tesla has the ability to do things that the others can’t and that, being all-in on electric cars, they will win,” said Kevin Tynan, an auto analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. “It’s a flawed argument. You can’t tell me that BMW can’t do what Tesla can do.”



    After climbing as much as 1.9 percent and surpassing BMW’s $61.3 billion market value, Tesla shares reversed gains after Hedgeye Risk Management added shorting Tesla to its best ideas list. The stock dropped 3.4 percent to $357.32 at the close in New York, dropping its market cap about $2.6 billion below BMW’s.

    Musk, 45, engendered optimism this week by telling shareholders Tuesday his most affordable electric car thus far, the Model 3, will start production as scheduled in July. Within two to three years, Musk sees following that sedan up with a cheaper crossover model, the Model Y, that eventually will draw more demand and need its own assembly plant.

    Chants Short

    Tesla’s surge in value is controversial. Short interest represented about one fourth of the shares as of the latest quarterly filing. Investors including Jim Chanos, who famously bet early on energy company Enron Corp.’s failure, point to the carmaker’s sparse profits -- it’s posted losses in all but two quarters of its history -- and expect Musk to go through billions in cash to fund his lofty ambitions.
    “We think they are going to be burning close to $750 million to $1 billion a quarter for the next handful of quarters,” Chanos said at the Bloomberg Invest New York Summit on Tuesday. Tesla “has its big test ahead of it, the Model 3. It has been losing money selling $120,000 cars, but it hopes to make money selling the $35,000 car.”

    And Tesla has a long way to go to catch up to BMW in terms of sales and profits. The German carmaker sold almost 2.4 million vehicles cars in 2016, while Tesla delivered fewer than 80,000. Tesla lost about $725 million in 2016; BMW made $7.7 billion.

    Battery Business
    Some of the excitement around Tesla is tied to its other business units, including energy, said Ravi Malik, principal and portfolio manager with Los Angeles-based SSI Investment Management, which oversees $1.5 billion in assets, including Tesla convertible bonds. Malik, who called the share price overvalued, estimates the car division is probably $300 of the share price and the rest is based on the possible value of Tesla’s battery business and self-driving car technology.

    If Tesla can sell more cars, render its auto business profitable and also break into the power utility industry with its energy storage products, there’s more upside in the stock, Malik said, conceding that’s a lot of ifs.
    “It’s a controversial valuation,” Malik said. “At this level, it seems fully valued, but if everything goes right we can see more upside.”

    ‘Stranded Capital’
    What will eventually determine whether Tesla justifies its valuation is electric car demand really taking off, said Ben Kallo, an analyst with Robert W. Baird & Co. If the car market is near an inflection point in which battery-powered vehicles become the big draw, then Tesla not only has a lead, but players like GM and BMW have a lot of capital trapped in making gasoline-powered autos that could be in decline.
    “If we do make this transition to electric vehicles, the other car companies have stranded capital,” Kallo said by phone.
    Read more: BMW scares staff straight at electric-car boot camp

    If Tesla stopped trading on potential growth and started trading on profitability, the stock would plummet, Tynan said. Musk would need to raise billions to get to BMW’s size. It takes the German carmaker about $59 billion in plants, property and equipment to generate its $104 billion in revenue. Tesla, by comparison, uses about $6 billion in plants and equipment to generate $7 billion in revenue.
    In addition to giving BMW a run for its money in the markets, Tesla is about to be competing more head-on in showrooms.

    The Model 3 will start at about $35,000 and may typically sell at prices similar to BMW’s bread-and-butter 3 Series sedan. BMW has the i3 plug-in hybrid in its lineup and plans to sell an electric version of its X3 sport utility vehicle in 2020. Volkswagen AG’s Audi and Porsche brands also plan to introduce sporty electric cars to test Musk’s growth plans.
    Not to worry, says Kallo -- Musk has a lot of fans. “I’m not sure if people want electric cars, but they do want Teslas,” he said.

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    Nice to see an American company challenging the Germans luxury car juggernauts.

    Tesla market cap does seem so unreal at the moment, but l guess GM, Ford and Mopar are onlyseen as good in the short term with the huge money they generate on gasoline trucks, but as oil peaks are beginning to decline, shale oil the easy to find/extract pull up is about to peak in 2022 they look at GM and say where is your plan B for huge truck profits if you get another $148 oil price spike that sent you into bankruptcy last time when the huge truck profits went south, Tesla don't need a plan B they are long term future proof command high prices, and they are selling in all global markets. GM are doing well in the small car segment with the Bolt but will their be any profits to made on the roof of them in the future. Spark & Caddy ELR have not made a single sale in the last couple months.

    Tesla order book is full and best selling in places like Europe just as Ford have pulled the plug on its Focus EV in Europe, Tesla are delivering the high end high priced goods in markets like Europe in LHD/RHD that brands like Cadillac can't sell even a very small fraction of with gasoline sales numbers included.

    Where is GM's long term plan "B" GM's long term future thats what the market wants to see, where are the North American GM electric pick-up trucks/SUV's the huge gasoline profit generators for GM? These are the models the markets wants to see that offer the hugest potential in fuel cost savings/huge profits in the future that Mary Barra should be pushing at GM board meetings, where are the long future profits at GM gonna come from surely not from bottom of the market Bolts? thats not ever gonna replace the huge profits made on the gasoline trucks in the future?
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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    I'm excited to drive the smaller model 3 75kw awd performance edition. I put a deposit down and hope to get delivery by the second quarter of 2018...


    Not sure but I was so impressed with the several driving experiences for several hours in a model S .

    It was quite a revelation that transcended any excitment about not using gasoline.

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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by JBsZ06 View Post
    I'm excited to drive the smaller model 3 75kw awd performance edition. I put a deposit down and hope to get delivery by the second quarter of 2018...


    Not sure but I was so impressed with the several driving experiences for several hours in a model S .

    It was quite a revelation that transcended any excitment about not using gasoline.
    Different price point but I'd take the Jaguar I-PACE over the Model 3. The spy video of the production I-PACE shot in Monaco makes clear that it's as good looking as the concept and lost little or nothing on the way to the showroom. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Btw I check out every Model X I see for panel fit and the large percentage of them are really sub-par. It doesn't help that they decided to butt the front and rear door handles together. It just accentuates any fit/alignment issues, which may or may not be addressable? It could be in the initial assembly and things that are welded bake the problem in.

    I'm sure the likes of BMW et al (who are all working on Tesla competitors) laugh at Tesla's market cap. Until they show they're able to turn a sustained profit, what they're worth is all pie in the sky. I believe Yahoo! was valued at $100 billion once, and now it's down to $2.5 billion??

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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by SKH View Post
    Different price point but I'd take the Jaguar I-PACE over the Model 3. The spy video of the production I-PACE shot in Monaco makes clear that it's as good looking as the concept and lost little or nothing on the way to the showroom. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Btw I check out every Model X I see for panel fit and the large percentage of them are really sub-par. It doesn't help that they decided to butt the front and rear door handles together. It just accentuates any fit/alignment issues, which may or may not be addressable? It could be in the initial assembly and things that are welded bake the problem in.
    Different strokes for different folks indeed. Each of us can make our own choice:
    1. A millimeter or so tighter panel gaps
    2. New features enabled for free as they become available months or years after initial purchase of the vehicle, UI updates every so often (for free) which keeps the vehicle feeling new long after purchase, constantly improving AutoPilot, fast charging infrastructure integrated into vehicle nav system etc.

    You seem to care more about #1. Personally, I care a lot more about #2.
    Last edited by emh; 06-12-2017 at 01:53 AM.
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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by emh View Post
    Different strokes for different folks indeed. Each of us can make our own choice:
    1. A millimeter or so tighter panel gaps
    2. New features enabled for free as they become available months or years after initial purchase of the vehicle, UI updates every so often (for free) which keeps the vehicle feeling new long after purchase, constantly improving AutoPilot, fast charging infrastructure integrated into vehicle nav system etc.

    You seem to care more about #1. Personally, I care a lot more about #2.
    like I've said before, if there is a buck to be made the private sector will take care of charging electric cars. The major manufacturers don't operate gas stations, so why would they need to set up 'supercharger' network? Also you seem to think BMW, Mercedes, JLR etc can't compete on an equal footing with Tesla. I happen to think that because they don't have all of their eggs in one basket they have a distinct advantage over Tesla. If BMW etc's full electric offerings hit a slow patch they have Gasoline/Diesel/hybrids to offset that. If Tesla sees a downturn in MODEL S/X/3 then they might have a big problem, but we can agree to disagree on this.

    Btw re: fit, finish, panel gap. It's hit and miss on Tesla, and it's not just me that cares about that. When a Kia or an average econobox has great fit and finish, selling a car (the 3) that will likely have an average ATP around $50K it better be put together as well as a $20,000 car.

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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by SKH View Post
    like I've said before, if there is a buck to be made the private sector will take care of charging electric cars. The major manufacturers don't operate gas stations, so why would they need to set up 'supercharger' network? Also you seem to think BMW, Mercedes, JLR etc can't compete on an equal footing with Tesla. I happen to think that because they don't have all of their eggs in one basket they have a distinct advantage over Tesla. If BMW etc's full electric offerings hit a slow patch they have Gasoline/Diesel/hybrids to offset that. If Tesla sees a downturn in MODEL S/X/3 then they might have a big problem, but we can agree to disagree on this.

    Btw re: fit, finish, panel gap. It's hit and miss on Tesla, and it's not just me that cares about that. When a Kia or an average econobox has great fit and finish, selling a car (the 3) that will likely have an average ATP around $50K it better be put together as well as a $20,000 car.
    Cuistomer demand will only change gradually - those manufacturers making all of diesel, petrol/gasoline, hybrid, plug-in hybrid and battery electric are able to gradually switch production mix to reflect public demand.

    When business fleets start buying EVs in large numbers, then change will be more rapid.

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    Re: Tesla Rivals BMW as Model 3 Seen as Ultimate Driving Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by SKH View Post
    like I've said before, if there is a buck to be made the private sector will take care of charging electric cars. The major manufacturers don't operate gas stations, so why would they need to set up 'supercharger' network?
    You keep missing the point. Integration is the key. In early stages of technology, third party solutions rarely have the desired level of integration (did you try using a phone app store before Apple's and Google's came along?). If you haven't lived with an EV, you probably don't realize how important this is.

    Also you seem to think BMW, Mercedes, JLR etc can't compete on an equal footing with Tesla. I happen to think that because they don't have all of their eggs in one basket they have a distinct advantage over Tesla. If BMW etc's full electric offerings hit a slow patch they have Gasoline/Diesel/hybrids to offset that. If Tesla sees a downturn in MODEL S/X/3 then they might have a big problem, but we can agree to disagree on this.
    I do not question BMW, Mercedes et al.'s ability to compete with Tesla at all. Just like GM and Toyota and Ford should, in theory, be able to compete on an equal footing with BMW or Mercedes. I do question their will to compete with Tesla precisely because they have other product lines. I suppose you aren't familiar with the Innovator's Dilemma.

    Btw re: fit, finish, panel gap. It's hit and miss on Tesla, and it's not just me that cares about that. When a Kia or an average econobox has great fit and finish, selling a car (the 3) that will likely have an average ATP around $50K it better be put together as well as a $20,000 car.
    The panel gaps on my wife's BMW are bigger than on the Honda Civic I had in college, plus the BMW rattles more and is much less reliable. In short, the $50K BMW isn't put together as well as a $15K car from 15 years ago. But no one ditches their BMWs for Civics because the BMW has a different appeal. Same with Tesla. It's a different value proposition.
    Last edited by emh; 06-13-2017 at 12:04 AM.
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