Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

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Thread: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

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    Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased, Signaling High-Performance Road Car
    Motor1
    Sep 18, 2020
    By: Chris Bruce





    Peugeot announces a return to endurance racing at Le Mans for 2022 in the new Hypercar class. Given the rule to produce at least 25 road-going vehicles using the racing powerplant, this means the motoring world can look forward to seeing a French high-performance machine on the street, in addition to the track.

    The new Peugeot hypercar doesn't yet have an official name. The company is developing the vehicle in-house at its motorsport headquarters in Paris. "To this date, we have confirmed part of the aerodynamic concept, the engine framework has been decided and we have chosen the functionality of the hybrid system and its fundamental design," Olivier Jansonnie, Technical Director of the Peugeot Sport WEC program, said in the announcement.
    Peugeot says that it's crafting the shape of the hypercar in the wind tunnel, which suggests a form-follows-function design ethos. The released images show a low-slung vehicle with prominent fenders. A fin runs down the back. Three vertical headlights and taillights contribute to a cohesive look at the front and rear.

    There still aren't many mechanical details available about the Peugeot hypercar. The company's announcement says that the vehicle has 671 hp (500 kW). Of this, the rules stipulate that there be an electrically driven front axle with an output of 268 horsepower (200 kilowatts).
    Last edited by asrapid1; 09-19-2020 at 08:44 AM.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    The "High Performance Road Car" looks like something for the race car circuit. High Performance Race Car.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Some of the competition

    SCUDERIA CAMERON GLICKENHAUS 007 with 3.5 l v8 engine made by Pipo Moteurs




    Toyota GR Super Sport


    ByKolles Racing PMC Project LMH Hypercar with v8 (i think it will be a Gibson v8)


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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Engine design is free, with only four-stroke petrol engines being permitted for use. For production-based engines, the block and head castings must come from the base engine (but can be slightly altered via machining or addition of material), and the crankshaft may only be a maximum of 10% lighter, while valve angles, number of camshafts, and location of camshafts must also remain as they are fitted on the original engine.
    I wonder if Corvette rumored 5.5 l v8 DOHC would fit in here

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    Balance of Performance probably nullifies any advantage a DOHC package would give the 5.5,
    the C8 now being engine behind driver mid engine vehicle gives it a much better package,
    one that adds more to corner entry and exit speeds relying less on brute horsepower.
    Last edited by jpd80; 09-19-2020 at 07:08 PM.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Well, Cadillac has to play ball and replace the DPi's no?

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Well, Cadillac has to play ball and replace the DPi's no?
    Well...at the end on 2018 it was decided that a minimum of 25 road cars fitted with the combustion engine and energy recovery system (ERS) of the race car would have to be produced by the end of a manufacturer's first season.Also that non-OEM racecar constructors, such as Oreca, Onroak Automotive and Dallara, would not be permitted to build hypercars.
    Since Cadillac DPi is anything but Cadillac and (it is variation of Dallara P217), i,m not sure it would be able to compete. And they must built 25 road cars. If rules hasn't changed.

    But there is Le Mans Daytona h class in future so i assume they can compete in this class (can use constructors such as Dallara, orexa etc.)

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by asrapid1 View Post
    Well...at the end on 2018 it was decided that a minimum of 25 road cars fitted with the combustion engine and energy recovery system (ERS) of the race car would have to be produced by the end of a manufacturer's first season.Also that non-OEM racecar constructors, such as Oreca, Onroak Automotive and Dallara, would not be permitted to build hypercars.
    Since Cadillac DPi is anything but Cadillac and (it is variation of Dallara P217), i,m not sure it would be able to compete. And they must built 25 road cars. If rules hasn't changed.

    But there is Le Mans Daytona h class in future so i assume they can compete in this class (can use constructors such as Dallara, orexa etc.)
    I guess Cadillac has to decide if they will give up prototype racing or take it to the competition.


    You forget the power units on those DPi Chassis are Cadillac motors

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    I guess Cadillac has to decide if they will give up prototype racing or take it to the competition.


    You forget the power units on those DPi Chassis are Cadillac motors
    Nope..it is ECR Engines designed, developed, and produced.

    IMO when other parties change majority of base engine and you are not the one making the changes and only have small input in producing, developing and designing of that new unit it is not yours anymore. You can pay to put your name on it and there is nothing wrong with it..but just like a chassis it s not your product. IMO.

    And change is not performed by Cadillac or GM. It is performed by ECR .

    Same as the engine in Mazda DPi. It is AER unit.
    Last edited by asrapid1; 09-21-2020 at 12:15 AM.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by asrapid1 View Post
    Nope..it is ECR Engines designed, developed, and produced.

    IMO when other parties change majority of base engine and you are not the one making the changes and only have small input in producing, developing and designing of that new unit it is not yours anymore. You can pay to put your name on it and there is nothing wrong with it..but just like a chassis it s not your product. IMO.

    And change is not performed by Cadillac or GM. It is performed by ECR .

    Same as the engine in Mazda DPi. It is AER unit.
    Paying to put your name on an engine is just PR - Ford did the same with the Cosworth DFV F1 engine - the deal included Ford's use of Cosworth on production cars, a bit ironic as Cosworth did just as much design consultancy for GM as they did for Ford.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by asrapid1 View Post
    Nope..it is ECR Engines designed, developed, and produced.

    IMO when other parties change majority of base engine and you are not the one making the changes and only have small input in producing, developing and designing of that new unit it is not yours anymore. You can pay to put your name on it and there is nothing wrong with it..but just like a chassis it s not your product. IMO.

    And change is not performed by Cadillac or GM. It is performed by ECR .

    Same as the engine in Mazda DPi. It is AER unit.
    I don't think that is a very fair characterization of what is going on with the DPi Cadillac engine. It uses parts that are at least based on GM production pieces. I think most, if not all, of the rotating assembly is commercially available aftermarket parts. The previous DP engines leaned more on production parts, if I'm not mistaken, but this is very much a GM engine. It's also worth noting that Katech did this for years with the Corvette program from the Gen III (LS) engine on up.

    Saying it was "designed" by a 3rd party makes it sound as if it was a ground up design from outside GM. That is not the case as it is most definitely an LT based Gen V engine. I think saying developed and built by ECR is more accurate. I also think it is unreasonable to expect GM or other manufacturers to fully build racing engines in house. I also imagine that there is some level of communication between engineering at GM and ECR; after all, GM designed the Gen V V8.

    See this article about the engine:
    https://www.enginelabs.com/news/insi...-2-at-daytona/

    There is about as little hard info in there as you would expect a racer to disclose, but it is obvious from the pictures that it is a GM engine.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by chris442 View Post
    I don't think that is a very fair characterization of what is going on with the DPi Cadillac engine. It uses parts that are at least based on GM production pieces. I think most, if not all, of the rotating assembly is commercially available aftermarket parts. The previous DP engines leaned more on production parts, if I'm not mistaken, but this is very much a GM engine. It's also worth noting that Katech did this for years with the Corvette program from the Gen III (LS) engine on up.

    Saying it was "designed" by a 3rd party makes it sound as if it was a ground up design from outside GM. That is not the case as it is most definitely an LT based Gen V engine. I think saying developed and built by ECR is more accurate. I also think it is unreasonable to expect GM or other manufacturers to fully build racing engines in house. I also imagine that there is some level of communication between engineering at GM and ECR; after all, GM designed the Gen V V8.

    See this article about the engine:
    https://www.enginelabs.com/news/insi...-2-at-daytona/

    There is about as little hard info in there as you would expect a racer to disclose, but it is obvious from the pictures that it is a GM engine.
    ECR came on board in October 2015,” remembers Brian Goble, sports car engine program manager at ECR, which is located on the Richard Childress Racing compound in Welcome, North Carolina. “We started designing the engine in January 2016 and had the first test mule on the dyno by May.”
    The LT block sports a bore slightly under stock dimensions. The rotating assembly features a fully counterweighted Bryant crankshaft, Carrillo steel H-beam connecting rods and Mahle pistons wrapped with Total Seal rings. The dry-sump lubrication system was designed along with Precision Racing Components.
    The valvetrain has a few things that are proprietary to the program,” says Goble, noting that direct injection is not carried over from the production engine. Instead, the intake manifold is designed with port injection.

    “We evaluated the benefits versus the cost, and it didn’t warrant having [DI] initially,” says Goble, adding that given the tight timeframe for development the team had to pick it’s battles. “There are potential provisions for it in the future if we need to.”
    If you want it to call it Cadillac engine call it..it is your opinion ...but it is not..IMO.

    I also think it is unreasonable to expect GM or other manufacturers to fully build racing engines in house.
    .
    Toyota does for LMP1 class (and new Hypercar), Porsche also did that for LMP1 class.

    Not saying that is a bad thing or wrong to pay others to designed, developed etc for you but then give credit where credit is due. Obviously ECR have lot of experience in designing, developing and manufacturing. Same as -Cosworth, Yamaha, Ilmor ,Katech, AER,Judd etc.
    Last edited by asrapid1; 09-21-2020 at 03:09 PM.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Who paid for the Development and Engineering?

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by asrapid1 View Post
    If you want it to call it Cadillac engine call it..it is your opinion ...but it is not..IMO.

    .
    Toyota does for LMP1 class (and new Hypercar), Porsche also did that for LMP1 class.

    Not saying that is a bad thing or wrong to pay others to designed, developed etc for you but then give credit where credit is due. Obviously ECR have lot of experience in designing, developing and manufacturing. Same as -Cosworth, Yamaha, Ilmor ,Katech, AER,Judd etc.
    So basically what you're saying is that if took the LS2 in my GTO and put in an aftermarket rotating assembly to make it 402 cubic inches instead of 364 and put a set of AFR heads and a FAST 102 intake manifold on it, it wouldn't be a LS engine anymore?

    I think the line of demarcation is different. Obviously if the engines were Judd V10s they would be Judd engines. That is not the case here. One glance at that DPi engine and it's obvious that it's an LS or LT engine. Actually, I think the heads are LS based, just based on the valve covers, but I'm not 100% sure. They weren't super forthcoming the article as one might expect.

    Also, the idea that they used aftermarket parts and therefore it's not really a GM just doesn't work for me. The fact of the matter is that many of the production parts are made by third parties to begin with. Heck, the original pistons are probably Mahles, anyway. Most of that stuff could at least physically bolt on to an engine that came in Corvette, Camaro or Escalade. That being the case I just don't think you can say that ECR "designed" the engine. They started with the GM design and customized it to fit with the needs of that class of racing. Whether the Cadillac branding really fits as compared with Chevy is another question, but either way those fall under the GM umbrella.

    I guess what I really take issue with is that you make it sound as though they just slapped Cadillac script valve covers on something that has absolutely nothing to do with GM engineering, and that just isn't true.

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    Re: Peugeot Le Mans Hypercar Teased,

    Quote Originally Posted by chris442 View Post

    I guess what I really take issue with is that you make it sound as though they just slapped Cadillac script valve covers on something that has absolutely nothing to do with GM engineering, and that just isn't true.
    Yeah ..you see .. i never said it has nothing to do with GM engineering.

    IMO when other parties change majority of base engine and you are not the one making the changes and only have small input in producing, developing and designing of that new unit it is not yours anymore. You can pay to put your name on it and there is nothing wrong with it..but just like a chassis it is not your product. IMO.
    ..but there is too much changes on the engine,to be called GM engine, since changes (development and design) are made by ECR.
    The block is special aluminium casting, rotating assembly (crankshaft, valvetraing) are built to ECR specification, heads also, no direct injection etc.
    We can just agree to disagree

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