Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019 - Page 2

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Thread: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Don't forget the $700 UAW penalty per car.
    Didn't the UAW just 'win' a strike to increase benefits? Might be time to refigure that 700 dollar handicap.
    It sounded pretty good until I actually said it.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 White C5 Coupe View Post
    I can see it now - in 10 years, Ford and GM will be trying to figure out how to get “new” customers to buy their vehicles (and hoping for lifetime customers). But the will be only offering trucks / SUV’s / CUV’s - and wondering why other manufacturers are selling so many “cars”, and trucks / SUV’s / CUV’s to their lifelong customers.

    People looking to buy a new vehicle for their teenage child or grandchild will be looking at Toyota, Honda, Kia, and Hyundai.
    I can almost write the headline today!

    "Domestic Auto's Seek Growth; Long Ignored Sedan's Key to Future"
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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Total sales for those brands may be up but their car sales are all down
    and here's the figures.......
    by my count, the popular non-detroit brands have lost collectively over 200,000 car sales. There is a rebalance in sales towards utilities and trucks going on across the entire market, the Detroit manufacturers just happen to be at the leading edge of it.

    Kia car sales, down over 6%.........331,107 (352,844) -6.2%

    Hyundai car sales, down 11%......320,611 (361,198) -11.2%

    Nissan car sales, down 8.7%........510,553 (559,059) -8.7%

    Subaru car sales, down over 15%.......125,650 (149,073) -15.7%

    Lexus car sales, down over 12%........80,975 (92,660) -12.6%

    Toyota car sales, down 4%.........769,022 (801,407) -4.0%

    Honda car sales, down 3%..........663,973 684,853 -3.0%
    Down but FAR from out. Those are a lot of sales for GM to piss away

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by steve333 View Post
    Down but FAR from out. Those are a lot of sales for GM to piss away
    GM came within 67,000 sales of matching 2018 sales
    that's a huge turnaround in the last nine months.

    2019 sales (2018).........2,887,046 (2,954,037) -2.3%

    Remembering that GM lost some sales during the strike
    Last edited by jpd80; 01-10-2020 at 11:35 PM.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by BORG View Post
    Ford and GM were also really bad at making compact cars for American customers, and consequently they earned less from every customer they had to incentivize. I think that's forgotten, these are segments that never played to their core strengths and I'm honestly glad they finally put them out of their misery.
    Bull, the gen1 cruze was a really good car.
    The company just cut a few corners, ie water pump seals, PCV system etc.
    And it was profitable.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by canadian.bacon View Post
    Spoken like a true GM exec.

    Kia up. Hyundai up. Toyota up. I think once a customer buys a Honda or a Toyota , they will never touch GM again with a 10' pole.
    Tundra sales in the toilet. Anyone who buys an F150 or Ram 1500 will never touch a Tundra with a 10' pole.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    I understand profitability and volume. And by any measure, such factors must be taken into consideration when deciding a vehicle program.

    And yet, I can't help but wonder if Ford (or GM or FCA, for that matter) will regret their decision to abandon entire segments of the market when they're still putting up numbers like this and spotting their competitors additional volume. Even if the actuarial numbers are right (and fatter-profits reaped from SUV/crossovers will help buoy margins over lower-profits from sedan/economy cars) you may be losing a customer forever.
    When you combine much higher profit of SUV's along with adequate volumes, that makes more sense for your bottom line.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    It isn't just about the bottom line. While sedan sales are down, there are still a lot of them sold.

    I find the complete elimination of them to be very short sighted. GM and Ford are / were making the best sedans they had ever made. In the case of the Fusion, it sold very well. To completely eliminate it alienates a bunch of customers.

    It just feels like, in the quest to pander to the few electric car buyers out there, GM and Ford are willing to throw a bunch of customers away. Electric cars will not be mainstream for a LONG time. Yes, Tesla's sell, as do Prius's, but they are a rounding error. I just find both GM and Ford to be incredibly short sighted.
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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme4x4 View Post
    It isn't just about the bottom line. While sedan sales are down, there are still a lot of them sold.

    I find the complete elimination of them to be very short sighted. GM and Ford are / were making the best sedans they had ever made. In the case of the Fusion, it sold very well. To completely eliminate it alienates a bunch of customers.

    It just feels like, in the quest to pander to the few electric car buyers out there, GM and Ford are willing to throw a bunch of customers away. Electric cars will not be mainstream for a LONG time. Yes, Tesla's sell, as do Prius's, but they are a rounding error. I just find both GM and Ford to be incredibly short sighted.
    I was on an industry call sponsored by MEMA this week, the main speaker is a personal friend that works for Jefferies Group, being that we are now in 2020 he was going back to things that were said 4~6 years ago (not by him). EV's and Autonomous were talked about by many as "matter-of-fact" by the time we hit 2020, yet here were are; where is it at?

    I do think "cars" will get replaced with "vehicles" the new Escape is clearly heading in that direction, to me it's only slightly more than a tall sedan. So the alienation won't be that severe.
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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme4x4 View Post
    It isn't just about the bottom line. While sedan sales are down, there are still a lot of them sold.

    I find the complete elimination of them to be very short sighted. GM and Ford are / were making the best sedans they had ever made. In the case of the Fusion, it sold very well. To completely eliminate it alienates a bunch of customers.

    It just feels like, in the quest to pander to the few electric car buyers out there, GM and Ford are willing to throw a bunch of customers away. Electric cars will not be mainstream for a LONG time. Yes, Tesla's sell, as do Prius's, but they are a rounding error. I just find both GM and Ford to be incredibly short sighted.
    Ford was trapped really. They had very old sedan platforms that were in desperate need of modernization. There choices seemed to be either invest massive capital in all new and modern platforms on a low margin segment that is dropping rapidly, or, move that capital into the uber competitive and high margin CUV/SUV segments while also investing signficantly in their future which appears to be lots of BEV. Ford can always introduce a BEV sedan if they see the market demand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNaughty View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme4x4 View Post
    It isn't just about the bottom line. While sedan sales are down, there are still a lot of them sold.

    I find the complete elimination of them to be very short sighted. GM and Ford are / were making the best sedans they had ever made. In the case of the Fusion, it sold very well. To completely eliminate it alienates a bunch of customers.

    It just feels like, in the quest to pander to the few electric car buyers out there, GM and Ford are willing to throw a bunch of customers away. Electric cars will not be mainstream for a LONG time. Yes, Tesla's sell, as do Prius's, but they are a rounding error. I just find both GM and Ford to be incredibly short sighted.
    Ford was trapped really. They had very old sedan platforms that were in desperate need of modernization. There choices seemed to be either invest massive capital in all new and modern platforms on a low margin segment that is dropping rapidly, or, move that capital into the uber competitive and high margin CUV/SUV segments while also investing signficantly in their future which appears to be lots of BEV. Ford can always introduce a BEV sedan if they see the market demand.
    Ford had new versions of Focus and Mondeo/ Fusion planned but cancelled them for North America, the CD6 RWD larger cars cancelled years ago, SAN Louis Ptosi plant started and then cancelled

    Ford did have choices but chose to kill cars to maximise utility sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme4x4 View Post
    It isn't just about the bottom line. While sedan sales are down, there are still a lot of them sold.

    I find the complete elimination of them to be very short sighted. GM and Ford are / were making the best sedans they had ever made. In the case of the Fusion, it sold very well. To completely eliminate it alienates a bunch of customers.

    It just feels like, in the quest to pander to the few electric car buyers out there, GM and Ford are willing to throw a bunch of customers away. Electric cars will not be mainstream for a LONG time. Yes, Tesla's sell, as do Prius's, but they are a rounding error. I just find both GM and Ford to be incredibly short sighted.
    Ford goes on these quests every decade or so before realising that the money is made by large trucks and full sized utilities.

    Cars will be back but maybe add ons to Ute production, maybe niche products with much higher prices.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by DreadNaughty View Post
    Ford was trapped really. They had very old sedan platforms that were in desperate need of modernization. There choices seemed to be either invest massive capital in all new and modern platforms on a low margin segment that is dropping rapidly, or, move that capital into the uber competitive and high margin CUV/SUV segments while also investing signficantly in their future which appears to be lots of BEV. Ford can always introduce a BEV sedan if they see the market demand.
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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Ford had new versions of Focus and Mondeo/ Fusion planned but cancelled them for North America, the CD6 RWD larger cars cancelled years ago, SAN Louis Ptosi plant started and then cancelled

    Ford did have choices but chose to kill cars to maximise utility sales.
    Seems they care far more about utility profits, then sales. Who can blame them.
    And again, updating even the Focus and Fusion/Mondeo, requires massive capital. I believe Europe Mondeo still rides on modified old Mazda platform. Seems to me that if a Focus generates almost no profit, why not clear the way for higher profit, like that Puma. That is quite attractive for a small vehicle. And you said it yourself, they can always bring back sedans, but my guess, it would be BEV. That makes far more sense.
    Last edited by DreadNaughty; 01-11-2020 at 08:54 PM.

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    Re: Ford still sold 226,193 endangered Fusions and Fiestas in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Challenger Charger 300.
    Well, at least Charger and 300. Ford has the Mustang.

    And BTW, will they ever update those cars? They have been looking the same since they launched decades ago.

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