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Thread: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

  1. #61
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    I think what most upsets about GM’s plant and production changes is simply how rapidly it was executed compared to Ford. I’ll give G this, they do Chang in a grand scale while Ford is much slower and saving money by adding new products in existing car plants. A little more humane on production workers.

    But what most are missing with Ford’s 7,000 global jobs is that they are salaried positions which are usually longer term / career employees, I don’t think Adam Jonas’ extrapolation of Ford needing to end another 23,000 jobs is at all accurate and looks at the problem in isolation while disregarding the cumulative affects of multiple changes that includes new products that buyers want with higher profit margins.

    None of this is to place Ford above GM or even FCA, simply pointing out that again, the two are at different places with their respective transformations...starting next year, Ford will have a lot more products flowing from is Mexican plants.
    It seems like 23,000 is an absolute extreme number. How many salary positions do they have?

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    It seems like 23,000 is an absolute extreme number. How many salary positions do they have?
    About 70,000.
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    I think what most upsets about GM’s plant and production changes is simply how rapidly it was executed compared to Ford. I’ll give G this, they do Chang in a grand scale while Ford is much slower and saving money by adding new products in existing car plants. A little more humane on production workers.

    But what most are missing with Ford’s 7,000 global jobs is that they are salaried positions which are usually longer term / career employees, I don’t think Adam Jonas’ extrapolation of Ford needing to end another 23,000 jobs is at all accurate and looks at the problem in isolation while disregarding the cumulative affects of multiple changes that includes new products that buyers want with higher profit margins.

    None of this is to place Ford above GM or even FCA, simply pointing out that again, the two are at different places with their respective transformations...starting next year, Ford will have a lot more products flowing from is Mexican plants.
    Being white collar, it always irks me that it's tragic when the blue collar guy gets laid off but ok for the "rich" white collar guy is let go. White collar doesn't necessarily mean rich - the round of layoffs my company did was a combination of blue and white collar. I worked at the HQ, in the white collar group were a lot of admins - who are paid a lot less than most blue collar folks. And just because you are a director level or higher doesn't mean you have a ton of cash, mortgages are bigger, you don't qualify for college grants so you are paying $80k a year to send Johnny to college, etc.. It sucks for almost everyone to lose their job.

    Somehow on GMI some people paint Ford as this great company that treats their employees so much better. After GM announced the shutdown of plants I was told how Ford doesn't let employees go, they just find other work for them, Ford is awesome! Not to shortly later we hear Ford laying people off, not so awesome. But that's the thing, there is this perception of how great Ford is. Yes, maybe they have a little less production in Mexico, but they still do have production, they lay people off. The grass is always greener....

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Being white collar, it always irks me that it's tragic when the blue collar guy gets laid off but ok for the "rich" white collar guy is let go. White collar doesn't necessarily mean rich - the round of layoffs my company did was a combination of blue and white collar. I worked at the HQ, in the white collar group were a lot of admins - who are paid a lot less than most blue collar folks. And just because you are a director level or higher doesn't mean you have a ton of cash, mortgages are bigger, you don't qualify for college grants so you are paying $80k a year to send Johnny to college, etc.. It sucks for almost everyone to lose their job.

    Somehow on GMI some people paint Ford as this great company that treats their employees so much better. After GM announced the shutdown of plants I was told how Ford doesn't let employees go, they just find other work for them, Ford is awesome! Not to shortly later we hear Ford laying people off, not so awesome. But that's the thing, there is this perception of how great Ford is. Yes, maybe they have a little less production in Mexico, but they still do have production, they lay people off. The grass is always greener....
    It's because white collar folks get cut far less often and usually have the skills to move on rather easily especially in this job market. While you have one company who lied, GM, to an entire town, Lordstown, it becomes an issue. GM has done this multiple times after getting cities to invest millions (Spring Hill, Oshawa etc etc) and then they shut down shop later on. GM has an absolute insanity over getting a plant running for ONE product and then shutting it down later. That's the frustration that comes along with GM.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    It's because white collar folks get cut far less often and usually have the skills to move on rather easily especially in this job market. While you have one company who lied, GM, to an entire town, Lordstown, it becomes an issue. GM has done this multiple times after getting cities to invest millions (Spring Hill, Oshawa etc etc) and then they shut down shop later on. GM has an absolute insanity over getting a plant running for ONE product and then shutting it down later. That's the frustration that comes along with GM.
    If it could be proven that GM lied to anybody, they could be sued in court. I'm betting Lordstown CLAIMS that GM lied, but they never did. Cities/companies don't invest millions based on verbal agreements. There are contracts that dictate what must happen by both parties. If either party breaks the contract, there are consequences. Nothing else matters but the contract.
    GMI Site Rules: 11. "Trolling", or making posts with the sole intention of creating problems on the forums is obviously against the forum guidelines. We define trolling as a member that appears to have the sole purpose of posting just to spite the majority of the site or cause flame wars in threads they participate in. PLEASE respect differing opinions on the site at all times!

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Being white collar, it always irks me that it's tragic when the blue collar guy gets laid off but ok for the "rich" white collar guy is let go. White collar doesn't necessarily mean rich - the round of layoffs my company did was a combination of blue and white collar. I worked at the HQ, in the white collar group were a lot of admins - who are paid a lot less than most blue collar folks. And just because you are a director level or higher doesn't mean you have a ton of cash, mortgages are bigger, you don't qualify for college grants so you are paying $80k a year to send Johnny to college, etc.. It sucks for almost everyone to lose their job.

    Somehow on GMI some people paint Ford as this great company that treats their employees so much better. After GM announced the shutdown of plants I was told how Ford doesn't let employees go, they just find other work for them, Ford is awesome! Not to shortly later we hear Ford laying people off, not so awesome. But that's the thing, there is this perception of how great Ford is. Yes, maybe they have a little less production in Mexico, but they still do have production, they lay people off. The grass is always greener....
    I get your own situation but the topic at hand, the 7,000 job losses only means something like 800 from North America while the rest will come from Europe, South America, China and ROW where restructuring is badly needed. No one ever likes to see jobs taken away from workers but it a sad fact that efficiency demands that fewer people be used to greater effect. Most white collar people realize this and continue to update their skills and CVs, so it's not like most expect "job for life" situation any more.

    Let's look at this in context, GM gave away Opel and Vauxhall to PSA and took a $4 Billion charge to walk away from pension liabilities - those employees now off GM's books will face restructuring under PSA where as Ford Europe and it various global regional centers will now be asked to make some sacrifices and that stays on Ford and the stare of the media.

    From time to time, Adam Jonas makes provocative statements like this 23k redundancies to simply draw out a corrective statement from Ford but Hackett is too smart and just ignores it. the reality is that new synergies between greater internal efficiency and newer better matched products will actually grow Ford's global business and result in better ROI..
    Last edited by jpd80; 05-22-2019 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckMan View Post
    If it could be proven that GM lied to anybody, they could be sued in court. I'm betting Lordstown CLAIMS that GM lied, but they never did. Cities/companies don't invest millions based on verbal agreements. There are contracts that dictate what must happen by both parties. If either party breaks the contract, there are consequences. Nothing else matters but the contract.
    Yes indeed.

    It's worth reading Charter Township of Ypsilanti v. General Motors Corp (201 Mich. App. 128, 506 N.W.2d 556 (1993). In this case, the municipality of Ypsilanti Charter Township, Michigan sued General Motors for consolidating production of B-Body Chevy Caprice at Arlington (Texas) Assembly, resulting in the closure of Willow Run Assembly located in Ypsilanti Charter Township.

    The plaintiff claimed that the defendant applied for and received property tax abatements for its Willow Run facilities, obligating GM to keep Willow Run Assembly open. It also invoked the concept of promissory estoppel on the basis of a verbal statement made by a Willow Run plant manager during a public hearing.

    Outcomes
    :
    • The trial court found that the abatement statute and application did not create a contract between the township and the corporation.
    • However, it did find that defendant was bound by promissory estoppel to retain production of the Caprice line in Willow Run, as long as the company produces that model.
    • The case was appealed. According to LexRoll, "The [Michigan Court of Appeals] held that the trial court’s finding that defendant promised to keep Caprice and station wagon production at Willow Run was clearly erroneous. The fact that a corporation solicits a tax abatement and persuades a municipality with assurances of jobs is not evidence of a promise. The fact that a manufacturer uses hyperbole and puffery in seeking an advantage or concession does not necessarily create a promise. Almost all the statements the trial court cited were expressions of defendant’s hopes or expectations and not a promise."
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    I get your own situation but the topic at hand, the 7,000 job losses only means something like 800 from North America while the rest will come from Europe, South America, China and ROW where restructuring is badly needed. No one ever likes to see jobs taken away from workers but it a sad fact that efficiency demands that fewer people be used to greater effect. Most white collar people realize this and continue to update their skills and CVs, so it's not like most expect "job for life" situation any more.

    Let's look at this in context, GM gave away Opel and Vauxhall to PSA and took a $4 Billion charge to walk away from pension liabilities - those employees now off GM's books will face restructuring under PSA where as Ford Europe and it various global regional centers will now be asked to make some sacrifices and that stays on Ford and the stare of the media.

    From time to time, Adam Jonas makes provocative statements like this 23k redundancies to simply draw out a corrective statement from Ford but Hackett is too smart and just ignores it. the reality is that new synergies between greater internal efficiency and newer better matched products will actually grow Ford's global business and result in better ROI..
    But why is Ford's restructuring badly needed and a good thing, but GM is simply corporate greed?

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    But why is Ford's restructuring badly needed and a good thing, but GM is simply corporate greed?
    Don't know, could be vivid imaginations.

    In all seriousness, anyone who understands the global automotive industry knows that Ford and GM both need a major organizational transformation in order to remain healthy in the years to come. There is a lot of "fat" to cut at both companies.
    Last edited by gkr778; 05-23-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    I know we hear this a lot. Still, who in hell is worth 18 mil? I'm thinking there are thousands of people out there who could run MoFoCo as well as or better than Jimmuh Hackett who could be had for a mil or two.

    Ford Motor Co. Chief Executive Officer Jim Hackett's compensation rose about 6 percent in 2018, a year the CEO characterized as “ mediocre by any standard” for the automaker. Hackett received $17.75 million in total compensation, up from about $16.7 million in 2017.Mar 15, 2019
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