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Thread: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    On GMI some people make it out like GM invented closing plants with the unfortunate consequence of the town dying.
    Ford invented that. Heck, Henry Ford even founded an entire city in Brazil in 1928, only to have it abandoned a few years later!


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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Right, because corporations never close down plants, no company other than GM has done that.

    Sarcasm aside, why do "we" do that? History is littered with examples of "the plant" shutting down and the town being destroyed. Why do we all want to put blinders on and ignore the fact that "the plant" might not be around forever and take proper precautions and plans. Why don't people squirrel away money for when the rainy day comes? Why do people not learn a new trade while "the plant" is still in operation, but the writing is on the wall (sometimes you know it is coming, sometimes you don't). Why do we vilify the companies that shut down "the plant" instead of chastising the town government for failing to attract other businesses? Why do we expect corporations to keep a plant operating indefinitely (kind of like communism)? Why do we all wave the flag supporting capitalism until the plant shuts down and we start talking like communists to keep the plant open?

    And we do this knowing corporations act in their own best interests but want to pretend they don't.

    In other words, why is no blame put on the people for not being prepared?
    Does anyone remember the IBM of old. They never sacked people but what they did was they built a new premises far away and told people that they had to move so of course enough resigned to keep management happy.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Ford invented that. Heck, Henry Ford even founded an entire city in Brazil in 1928, only to have it abandoned a few years later!


    Lost cities #10: Fordlandia – the failure of Henry Ford's utopian city in the Amazon


    Interesting, I never heard about this before. Imagine a CEO trying to do this today?

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by chinamonty View Post
    Does anyone remember the IBM of old. They never sacked people but what they did was they built a new premises far away and told people that they had to move so of course enough resigned to keep management happy.
    Yes, IBM's HQ is close to where I worked, they dominated the i684 corridor and surrounding areas, seemed like half the kids I knew (in the 1980's) Dad worked for IBM. Everyone was proud to work for them. Then they started shutting buildings and plants down. They just shut down a massive complex of buildings in Somers, NY and I believe will shut down their Southbury, CT facility. I think once those two buildings are shut down only the HQ in Aarmonk, NY will be left.

    It is sad what they've become, my neighbor works for them and the stories he tells me are amazing, but bad amazing, not good amazing. The turnover, layoffs, unhappiness, internal competition, seemingly daily top management changes and structure changes, crazy proclamations from management - they told everyone they had to work 20% more than the prior year, but was verbally communicated so Wall St would not have proof. Hard to tell people that work over 60 hour weeks that they need to make that 72 hours.... IBM has shipped so many jobs overseas that they can not supply services to the US government....

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Technology change killed IBM. There was a lot of profit in multi-million dollar main frames and their software in the 60's to the 90's. Tons of management layers added on but who cares? Always more money was coming in. DEC, old HP, Wang, UniSys, Compaq, and hundreds of other tech companies are gone or eaten up by a few tech survivors, none of which are doing that great. I don't include Apple, who's just a consumer high price toy manufacturer.

    There's still a car industry that still follows the model of large assembly plants with thousands of well paid local workers. When markets slump, I understand the need to cut production. But I don't agree when plants are shut and new production is moved to Mexico and China.

    Mexico is not a large economic threat. GM loves to have workers there that are paid $6/hr and will work 3 shifts, 7 days a week to assemble a boat load of Blazers, then toss them out when inventories get too high. No UAW, no strikes. What a great work force!

    China is another story. GM better look at China's Luckin Coffee. They plan to open thousands of coffee shops in China and drive Starbucks out of the country. GM only mentions VSS platform in China for the next Encore, Trailblazer and probable Bolt models. What stops China from handing GM's technology to Geely motors and shoving GM out of the country.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by joey View Post
    Technology change killed IBM. There was a lot of profit in multi-million dollar main frames and their software in the 60's to the 90's. Tons of management layers added on but who cares? Always more money was coming in. DEC, old HP, Wang, UniSys, Compaq, and hundreds of other tech companies are gone or eaten up by a few tech survivors, none of which are doing that great. I don't include Apple, who's just a consumer high price toy manufacturer.

    There's still a car industry that still follows the model of large assembly plants with thousands of well paid local workers. When markets slump, I understand the need to cut production. But I don't agree when plants are shut and new production is moved to Mexico and China.

    Mexico is not a large economic threat. GM loves to have workers there that are paid $6/hr and will work 3 shifts, 7 days a week to assemble a boat load of Blazers, then toss them out when inventories get too high. No UAW, no strikes. What a great work force!

    China is another story. GM better look at China's Luckin Coffee. They plan to open thousands of coffee shops in China and drive Starbucks out of the country. GM only mentions VSS platform in China for the next Encore, Trailblazer and probable Bolt models. What stops China from handing GM's technology to Geely motors and shoving GM out of the country.
    IBM is not dead

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Interesting, I never heard about this before. Imagine a CEO trying to do this today?
    "Company towns" in the U.S. (and many other parts of the world) are largely a late 19th - early 20th century phenomenon. Ironically, Henry Ford's efforts to popularize the mass produced automobile contributed to those towns' demise: increased mobility provided by automobiles meant that workers didn't need to live close to work and could more easily relocate for employment opportunities.

    Saudi Aramco's residential compound in Dhahran is probably the best known "company town" in current operation.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    My whole point is that this happens and there are ghost towns all over the USA where this occurred. On GMI some people make it out like GM invented closing plants with the unfortunate consequence of the town dying. It happens, it is hard and tough, but the workforce has to be mobile.
    Why does the workforce have to mobile? It seems like it's always the low rung people who get cut. Ford looks to be cutting a lot of higher up jobs as well where GM just seems to keep shifting production to lower and lower costs places.

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkillz View Post
    This is actually not accurate, a plant can still be profitable and still be closed down in order to reduce cost or cut over capacity. Which is where many people have an issue here as this isn't being done to save the company but merely to increase profits, you see when you state it that way destroying a town purely to increase profits it doesn't sound as noble as you want it to sound. Which is why you only included the example of if a product or a plant isn't profitable then it should be closed, also in a democracy (a representative republic is a form of democracy) it should be up to the people of the town if that town should die and not a private company.

    As it was stated in an article GM closed the plants that they closed to cut over capacity, also it was pressured into doing so by a hedge fund and not because those plants or products were not profitable.
    Bingo. There was no way the Cruze wasn't profitable when it was selling 30k vehicles a month. It wasn't making enough profit. That's not the plants fault, that's the blue collars in ivory towers making those decisions.

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Saudi Aramco's residential compound in Dhahran is probably the best known "company town" in current operation.

    I went to 9th grade in Dhahran on the American Consulate with a bunch of the Aramco kids. Dad worked for Saudi Arabian Airlines on loan from TWA. We lived on a similar yet much smaller "company town". Twas an interesting life experience at that age.
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    "Company towns" in the U.S. (and many other parts of the world) are largely a late 19th - early 20th century phenomenon. Ironically, Henry Ford's efforts to popularize the mass produced automobile contributed to those towns' demise: increased mobility provided by automobiles meant that workers didn't need to live close to work and could more easily relocate for employment opportunities.

    Saudi Aramco's residential compound in Dhahran is probably the best known "company town" in current operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripowergto Jan2003 View Post
    I went to 9th grade in Dhahran on the American Consulate with a bunch of the Aramco kids. Dad worked for Saudi Arabian Airlines on loan from TWA. We lived on a similar yet much smaller "company town". Twas an interesting life experience at that age.
    My dad worked for Chevron. We moved to Ras Tanura in 1988 before I started 5th grade. My parents were there for ~11 years. It was a very interesting experience. I'll never forget the beautiful views of the gulf.
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    IBM is not dead
    Far from it... they made almost $13 billion profit last year.
    They got rid of profitless consumer products and kept the stuff that makes money.
    Sound familiar??
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Ford is going to shut down plants, itís just behind the curve, GM is Ahead, they can remain profitable at 12 million SAAR, itís at 17 million now..

    But.. letís hope it doesnít happen
    You actually think as bloated as GM was a year ago they were still profitable at 12 million SAAR? No-WAY.


    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    Ford invented that. Heck, Henry Ford even founded an entire city in Brazil in 1928, only to have it abandoned a few years later!
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Interesting, I never heard about this before. Imagine a CEO trying to do this today?
    Kinda like moving Equinox/Terrain production to Mexico, out of Oshawa then closing the plant, or more like adding Cruze production in Mexico and then closing Lordstown?
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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    Why does the workforce have to mobile? It seems like it's always the low rung people who get cut. Ford looks to be cutting a lot of higher up jobs as well where GM just seems to keep shifting production to lower and lower costs places.



    Bingo. There was no way the Cruze wasn't profitable when it was selling 30k vehicles a month. It wasn't making enough profit. That's not the plants fault, that's the blue collars in ivory towers making those decisions.
    They have to be mobile because that is the way it is. We can complain about the elite all we want, but it isn't going to change. The goal of manufacturing is to make the highest quality product for the lowest cost, keeping shipping costs in mind as well. China has been the go-to to get those low costs for awhile, but now their wages are rising and companies are beginning to look elsewhere. Same thing will happen in China, plants will close down and move manufacturing to cheaper places, China will have ghost towns as well.

    And with the Cruze or any product you need to consider it as an investment, you need a certain return on investment to make it worth it. Say the Cruze plant was making an ROI or 1%. You could do better putting your money in a CD at a bank, so keeping that plant open is not a good use of capital.

    It's business, the elite pull the strings until the company goes out of business, there is nothing the worker bees can do about it except to protect their own interests as best they can - save money, be prepared to move, have another marketable skill, etc..

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    They have to be mobile because that is the way it is. We can complain about the elite all we want, but it isn't going to change. The goal of manufacturing is to make the highest quality product for the lowest cost, keeping shipping costs in mind as well. China has been the go-to to get those low costs for awhile, but now their wages are rising and companies are beginning to look elsewhere. Same thing will happen in China, plants will close down and move manufacturing to cheaper places, China will have ghost towns as well.

    And with the Cruze or any product you need to consider it as an investment, you need a certain return on investment to make it worth it. Say the Cruze plant was making an ROI or 1%. You could do better putting your money in a CD at a bank, so keeping that plant open is not a good use of capital.

    It's business, the elite pull the strings until the company goes out of business, there is nothing the worker bees can do about it except to protect their own interests as best they can - save money, be prepared to move, have another marketable skill, etc..
    also "LONG TERM" capital costs to refurb the plant ++ continuing product segment volume decline

    the MX plant is NEWER and SMALLER if I am not mistaken

    I don't like the move to Mexico BUT won't get "angry" because GM is doing the "prudent" thing business wise and I would prefer an "IBM" than a "KODAK" for GM

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    Re: Ford to eliminate 7,000 jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    They have to be mobile because that is the way it is. We can complain about the elite all we want, but it isn't going to change. The goal of manufacturing is to make the highest quality product for the lowest cost, keeping shipping costs in mind as well. China has been the go-to to get those low costs for awhile, but now their wages are rising and companies are beginning to look elsewhere. Same thing will happen in China, plants will close down and move manufacturing to cheaper places, China will have ghost towns as well.

    And with the Cruze or any product you need to consider it as an investment, you need a certain return on investment to make it worth it. Say the Cruze plant was making an ROI or 1%. You could do better putting your money in a CD at a bank, so keeping that plant open is not a good use of capital.

    It's business, the elite pull the strings until the company goes out of business, there is nothing the worker bees can do about it except to protect their own interests as best they can - save money, be prepared to move, have another marketable skill, etc..
    Here's the deal though, GM has told them they were good for YEARS. GM lied straight to Lordstown this whole time. Where do you think GM will move once the new NAFTA goes into place? Why do you think there has been such blow back from it.

    I know that there is a lot of hometown loyalty to an automotive plant. The amount of Toyota's here is insane and Toyota is still investing in the plant even though it's moved on from the original production vehicle. They allocated something different but kept the plant alive. That's the problem with GM. They feel like they can't have that loyalty to one region or plant. They've even tossed in closing down Bowling Green a few times.

    What would you do if you saw the Lordstown had a 15-20% ROI?


    I dont give a rat's ass about China's people and their slave labor at the expense of my own country.

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