FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

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Thread: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

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    FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    FCA set to unveil Renault tie-up as early as Monday, reports say
    May 26, 2019
    TOMMASO EBHARDT and DANIELE LEPIDO
    autonews.com

    MILAN -- Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is poised to announce a tie-up with Renault SA as soon as Monday, opening a path for the Italian-American automaker to eventually become part of the Renault-Nissan Motor Co. alliance, according to people familiar with the matter.

    The deal may include an exchange of equity, the people said, asking not to be identified because the discussions aren’t public. Nissan isn’t involved, though the transaction would allow the carmakers to join forces later, the people said.

    French newspaper Le Figaro reported that Renault will meet on Monday morning at 0800 local time (2 a.m. EDT) to discuss a possible tie-up with FCA.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Looks like Peugeot-Citroen will have to find another partner to dance. Jaguar-Land Rover might be a good consolation prize for them.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    Looks like Peugeot-Citroen will have to find another partner to dance. Jaguar-Land Rover might be a good consolation prize for them.
    Yes. I read someplace that Tata was looking to either unload a portion of their investment, or possibly the entire company. PSA Groupe would make sense. But so does a possible Chinese partner. It would be sheer irony to see someone like Geely step forward and want a stake; thus reuniting JLR and Volvo under some kind of corporate parent.

    FCA would have been a good fit as well, but think I remember FCA was rebuked. I think it was a few years back that Sergio Marchionne had approached JLR to work on platforms and engines between Alfa, Maserati, and JLR, but they were rebuffed.

    Quote Originally Posted by autonews.com
    Talks between Fiat and Renault have accelerated in recent days, as negotiators found a way to structure a deal, the people said. Representatives from the two companies declined to comment.
    I'd be interested to see what kind of structure they come up with. Doing a deal now -- before Sergio's plan to boost Jeep/Ram's margins to optimal levels is fully implemented -- would seem to be premature. Knowing that, if there was some kind of capital tie up, one wonder's if FCA would be somewhat undervalued in any exchange.

    What's more, knowing that the Nissan-Renault paradigm has played out so poorly from a political perspective, you also have to wonder if FCA is learning any lessons from the fall out. Promises were made and pressure brought to bear; could the enter an alliance but still maintain some semblance of independence?
    Last edited by nadepalma; 05-26-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    For a little trivia of history, Renault, Nissan and Alfa-Romeo now under Fiat's umbrella had some deals in the past.

    Back when both Renault and Alfa-Romeo was government owned in the late 1950s. Alfa had once sold in Italy the Renault Dauphine as a Alfa-Romeo model. Some French sites mentionned the little differences between the Renault and Alfa versions.
    http://dauphinomaniac.org/Speciales/ALFA/Alfa.htm
    https://lautomobileancienne.com/alfa...phine-renault/

    Later in the 1980s, Nissan and Alfa got a deal who didn't turned as they hoped.
    http://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncat...f-both-worlds/
    https://www.carjager.com/article/alf...ux-yeux-brides

    Edit: Now another point to consider, the commercial vans joint-venture then Renault had with Opel/Vauxhall and Peugeot with Fiat. What will be the fate of these deals?
    Last edited by Stéphane Dumas; 05-26-2019 at 03:34 PM.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    Looks like Peugeot-Citroen will have to find another partner to dance. Jaguar-Land Rover might be a good consolation prize for them.
    I'm not convinced that Jaguar and Land-Rover would be a good fit for PSA, because I don't see the synergy effect for PSA in it. All current brands of PSA benefit from each other in the way that the share platform, engines and technology. That's why a niche premium brand like DS could be exist even with a low market share. Land-Rover and especially Jaguar demands more speciality compared to FCA. However, the car business is rapidly changing lately and who knows what happened next.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    ...
    Edit: Now another point to consider, the commercial vans joint-venture then Renault had with Opel/Vauxhall and Peugeot with Fiat. What will be the fate of these deals?
    The smaller LCVs already switched to PSA platforms. The Opel Movano, while currently updated, is still on the old Opel/Renault platform. Nissan also offer a LCV on this platform.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    For a little trivia of history, Renault, Nissan and Alfa-Romeo now under Fiat's umbrella had some deals in the past.

    Back when both Renault and Alfa-Romeo was government owned in the late 1950s. Alfa had once sold in Italy the Renault Dauphine as a Alfa-Romeo model. Some French sites mentionned the little differences between the Renault and Alfa versions.
    http://dauphinomaniac.org/Speciales/ALFA/Alfa.htm
    https://lautomobileancienne.com/alfa...phine-renault/

    Later in the 1980s, Nissan and Alfa got a deal who didn't turned as they hoped.
    http://www.curbsideclassic.com/uncat...f-both-worlds/
    https://www.carjager.com/article/alf...ux-yeux-brides

    Edit: Now another point to consider, the commercial vans joint-venture then Renault had with Opel/Vauxhall and Peugeot with Fiat. What will be the fate of these deals?
    IIRC Opel is moving the Movano and Vivano to other platforms soon, cannot remember which one, but it is moving to a PSA platform in the next year our two.

    Going to be interesting to see how FCA and Renault consolidate the Promaster Vans with Renault's.

    Outside of Commercial vans there is no overlap and not sure if Renault is planning to re-enter the U.S. market (not a good idea) or just use FCA products to cover the U.S.

    Not sure what if any effect Nissan or Mitsubishi will have on this deal as they are partners in the Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi Alliance.

    Nissan could drop the Titan and share the RAM while Nissan shares the next Frontier with RAM as the next Dakota - not the way I'd like to see it play out, but certainly a possibility.

    Nissan would love to be able to share the Caravan or Pacifica but not sure about that either, OTOH Nissan does have several viable cars to offer and already shares SUV's with Renault and Mitsubishi does offer some Electric Vehicles to the mix.

    Think the best bet is to keep the brands separate except for a few shared vehicles unless the need to be shared to meet regulations.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    I saw that post from Allpar user 77 Monaco Brougham, who discuss also the FCA-RN case and I quoted it to share. https://www.allpar.com/forums/goto/p...ost-1085103329

    I'm not from Missouri, but I'm firmly of the "Show Me!" mindset. My cynical nature will wait...and watch.

    IF...and I do mean IF this actually does come to pass, then in the interests of fairness, I would have to tip my hat to longtime Allpar contributor Prabhjot*, who steadfastly maintained that IF and WHEN a deal took place, it would be a deal which would leave FCA / Elkann in the driver's seat, and not the other way round.
    *Prabhjot is also a contributor on GMInsidenews.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Now I gotta wonder...
    Is Nissan gonna get cut loose because of the stuff they pulled on Ghosn?
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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    Now I gotta wonder...
    Is Nissan gonna get cut loose because of the stuff they pulled on Ghosn?
    Yes, they will be cut loose

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
    Now I gotta wonder...
    Is Nissan gonna get cut loose because of the stuff they pulled on Ghosn?
    Anyone who partners with them should get a full psych workup. The one exception being any masochists who enjoy prison life in Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Yes, they will be cut loose
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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    I see this as Renault's way of getting back into the U.S. market. Can also be a quick way for Ram to get it's midsize truck. Renault will be a better partner for Chrysler and Dodge to get proper small and midsize cars since Fiat doesn't have **** in those categories.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    If this goes through, I'm going to be unhappy on a personal level, but I understand the reasons why they would want a partnership. When this news got out the other day, it was painted as this being a full-on merger (like DaimlerChrysler or FCA). The merger is what I would not be happy with.
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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStopN View Post
    If this goes through, I'm going to be unhappy on a personal level, but I understand the reasons why they would want a partnership. When this news got out the other day, it was painted as this being a full-on merger (like DaimlerChrysler or FCA). The merger is what I would not be happy with.
    Agree, don't think that Renault is the best match for FCA, then again they tend to do "Alliances" and let each company to continue on their own with limited "sharing". Of course who knows how this is going to work or even how it is structured, think Renault is better off out of the U.S. market and have FCA provide the cash flow from here.

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    Re: FCA, Renault set to unveil possible tie-up Monday

    Quote Originally Posted by SierraGS View Post
    Agree, don't think that Renault is the best match for FCA, then again they tend to do "Alliances" and let each company to continue on their own with limited "sharing". Of course who knows how this is going to work or even how it is structured, think Renault is better off out of the U.S. market and have FCA provide the cash flow from here.
    Well, that same Chrysler cash flow has been used for both DC & FCA to prop up their failing European brands. It has been full-fledged robbery, not partnerships. I would love to see somebody lead Chrysler away from partnerships & return them to an independent operating manufacturer.
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