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Thread: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

  1. #31
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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Mother Barrah's daughter will soon marry, she will go to be grandma and sanity will return to the gasoline halls of GM
    Ahh, if insanity were only so easily cured.

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by BORG View Post
    That's ALL GM had to say about electrification? I don't get their strategy, it's ONLY about fully electric vehicles? No hybrids or Plug-in Hybrids?

    Ford is coming upon them like a ton of bricks in comparison.

    GM is a boring company, I hope they realize this. Doesn't mean they can't succeed while being boring however. I'm impressed by the speed of their crossover diversification...despite being crushingly ordinary.
    Aren't hybrids a stopgap & expensive needing both an ICE and batteries?

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by fastrehotrods View Post
    Yawn.

    While GM is planning a future of making appliances, gradually polarizing me away, FCA is over here like:


    Heck, let's throw Ford in with their recent video of Vaughn Gittin Jr. drifting a 4 leaf clover a few weeks back.


    I guess in the future, you'll be able to finance your new electric, autonomous GM rides along with your refrigerator, and stove?
    While very cool, this is a niche, most people want an appliance. Battery powered cars should have less mechanical issues due to less moving parts, be quiet, need minimal maintenance and no messy dealing with gas. Batteries fit the needs of what most people want better than ICE.

    Plus, with their low center of gravity and instant torque they fit the performance niche better than does ICE.

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Not all of us subscribe to the "dead dinosaur" hypothesis. Didn't we hit "peak oil" some years back?

    IMO the dino hypothesis is scientifically-akin to "the world will end in 12 years" crock, but without the get-rich-quick and destroy-civilization aspects to it.

    A simple search reveals many sources, many of them surprising.

    In other words, as Science magazine has reported, the "data imply that hydrocarbons are produced chemically" from carbon found in Earth's mantle. Nature magazine calls the product of this process an "unexpected bounty " of "natural gas and the building blocks of oil products."
    https://www.investors.com/politics/c...roduces-crude/

    THREE CHEERS FOR CARBON!!!
    Everyone will still be happy, hydrocarbons can still be used to generate the electricity for your electric car!

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    THREE CHEERS FOR CARBON!!!
    +1

    Carbon is the basis for life as we know it!

    I'll give five additional cheers to this amazing element (the allotropes of carbon pictured here are (a) diamond, (b) graphite, (c) lonsdaleite, (d) - (f) fullerenes, (g) amorphous, (h) nanotube

    God and guns keep us strong. That's what this country was founded on. - Lynyrd Skynyrd

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Missing why it is a negative to embrace EV.. The pic of the Challenger/Chargers is weird considering its not like GM doesn't have the Camaro, Corvette, CTS-V, CT6-V and big SUVs and Trucks. Marketing aside, GM has more actual performance cars than FCA.

    anyway.. All of the aforementioned stuff aside.. how can anyone, even as a conservative justify saying that we really shouldn't already be embracing and mass producing alternative transportation modes, moving from a 100+ year fossil fuel addiction that will eventually run out? Gas/diesel is dirty.. its inefficient.. its hot. EV is clean.. cool... and very efficient.. The efficiency is even clearly evident in the fact that its power and torque is ready from 1 RPM.. vs having to turn the engine to the 1000s to really see true power.

    GM made this announcement almost 2 years ago and no one paid attention.. Definitely not me. Remember the announcement that GM wold have 20 new EV vehicles by 2023

    “General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.” Cadillac Press Release
    Got me thinking.. Could this be it? Is this the date of change.. sorta like a GOING ON-LINE DATE?

    Thinking.. Why would U need a Cruze sized vehicle if the goal of the Cruze was to cut emissions? An EV would instantly do that. I will be the first to wonder why the Volt would be killed.. as it would be the perfect name to simply go all electric is we are at the point that we can do so with better range than even the 250 miles range of the 60 kWh Bolt. Surely GM can beat the Rivian's range estimates of 300 miles for the 135-kwh, 400 miles for the 180-kwh, and 230 miles for the 105-kwh.

    ACCEPTANCE is what it is.. if GM is doing what I said above, because lets face it.. if they don't move ahead with electrification.. they are DONE in 15 years. I mean it. IF THIS IS THE PLAN.. then applaud Mary Barra, an engineer by training. A lotta people are thinking about the Human factor concerning the lost of thousands of jobs.. Baltimore is slated to lose 300 jobs. That hits close to home. EV and Hydrogen powered vehicles will sit along with the Gas/diesel ones for another decade I'm sure.

    I think the thinking is that if the Volt is dead... those sales will probably go right to the Bolt. I could see that too. The Volt is at Detroit-Hamtramck which is getting the axe.. furthermore the Volt was up for a redo in 2020.. Who says that the Volt is really dead? It may just being renamed and reconfigured (FINALLY) to be a CUV EV in line with the Bolt. AGAIN..

    It is seriously estimated that there is about 52 years left.. that's 2070.. oil reserves left on the Planet Earth. Yes.. we have a little time base don current world population.. but what happens if population explodes again.. or there is a massive war? Why are we considering or even talking about neglecting a move into alternative propulsion systems? Furthermore.. where's the harm unless U are a lobbyist or employee of Exxon-Mobil and the like? If still If GM is the only company that breaks away from oil based cars.. which I still don't see happening for more than 20% of their line-up.. for at least another 10-15 years based on their current rate of movement.. then so be it.. U still have many other companies that will gladly continue building liquid fuel consuming ICEs.

    I am no tree hugger by any means.. and wouldn't consider a [email protected]#kin Prius if my life depended on it.. I'm a known car guy.. and high horsepower gas drinkers are my goto.. with 2 S/C V8 cars, and 2 NA V8s in my stable..


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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    +1

    Carbon is the basis for life as we know it!

    I'll give five additional cheers to this amazing element (the allotropes of carbon pictured here are (a) diamond, (b) graphite, (c) lonsdaleite, (d) - (f) fullerenes, (g) amorphous, (h) nanotube

    Really interesting the science behind carbon. I keep my eye on the nonotubes, be really cool if there is a breakthrough in producing nonotube string to make a space elevator.

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    While very cool, this is a niche, most people want an appliance. Battery powered cars should have less mechanical issues due to less moving parts, be quiet, need minimal maintenance and no messy dealing with gas. Batteries fit the needs of what most people want better than ICE.

    Plus, with their low center of gravity and instant torque they fit the performance niche better than does ICE.
    I don't think we watch NASCAR as an appliance show. Racing and driving freedom is in our blood. You might want to go call an UBER.

    Go check on YOUTUBE for Tesla costs: dozen of videos on EV's that are now worthless because a battery replacement is over $20K and $15K motor replacements Tesla's are worthless after the 8 year warranty.

    I need one 3 minute gas fill up on a 350 mile trip. Never seen a charge station or the 1 hour for a "quick" charge on the turnpike yet.

    Acura NSX and BMW i8 are great HYBRID sport cars. Still need that ICE engine for any real range.
    A Tesla S can give you 15 minutes of "insane" mode before an hour recharge. I'll stick with the hybrids thanks.

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by joey View Post
    I don't think we watch NASCAR as an appliance show. Racing and driving freedom is in our blood. You might want to go call an UBER.

    Go check on YOUTUBE for Tesla costs: dozen of videos on EV's that are now worthless because a battery replacement is over $20K and $15K motor replacements Tesla's are worthless after the 8 year warranty.

    I need one 3 minute gas fill up on a 350 mile trip. Never seen a charge station or the 1 hour for a "quick" charge on the turnpike yet.

    Acura NSX and BMW i8 are great HYBRID sport cars. Still need that ICE engine for any real range.
    A Tesla S can give you 15 minutes of "insane" mode before an hour recharge. I'll stick with the hybrids thanks.
    Didn't you read about the shortened recharge time? And how far will a Corvette go if you drive it in "insane" mode as well?

    How many people left GM because their ICE blew and would cost a fortune to replace? Should I YouTube that? I know there are several Porsche and Ferrari video's out there with them burning to the ground. And mind you, you are using Tesla as an example, I'm thinking GM's quality will be better. But even with that, what percentage of Tesla's end up with a blown battery pack that isn't covered?

    I don't watch racing, but wont the explosions be more spectacular if the battery packs catch on fire?

    I'm confused, how do electric cars take away our freedom to travel, especially with a shortened recharge time?

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    I don't think you can empty a Vette tank in 15 minutes.

    First Tesla sold in 2012, so out of warranty starts next year.

    So just the GM ICE motors blow up but the Bolts don't? Oh right, the batteries and motors are made by LG.

    I don't think sitting around for an hour is short. I'm sure there are points I want to travel to but can't or have to take a specific route cause there's still no charging station.

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    News Contributor BlackGTP's Avatar
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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by joey View Post
    I don't think you can empty a Vette tank in 15 minutes.

    First Tesla sold in 2012, so out of warranty starts next year.

    So just the GM ICE motors blow up but the Bolts don't? Oh right, the batteries and motors are made by LG.

    I don't think sitting around for an hour is short. I'm sure there are points I want to travel to but can't or have to take a specific route cause there's still no charging station.
    Did you read the article? Your comment regarding charge times tells me you didn't.

    So GM (or any brand) ICE engines don't blow up after warranty?

    And yes, the Vette driven balls out will last longer than 15 minutes, but you aren't going 400 miles with the pedal buried. And where did that 15 minutes come from?

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderthal View Post
    Not all of us subscribe to the "dead dinosaur" hypothesis. Didn't we hit "peak oil" some years back?

    IMO the dino hypothesis is scientifically-akin to "the world will end in 12 years" crock, but without the get-rich-quick and destroy-civilization aspects to it.

    A simple search regarding the sources of oil reveals countless references, many of them surprising.


    In other words, as Science magazine has reported, the "data imply that hydrocarbons are produced chemically" from carbon found in Earth's mantle. Nature magazine calls the product of this process an "unexpected bounty " of "natural gas and the building blocks of oil products."
    https://www.investors.com/politics/c...roduces-crude/

    THREE CHEERS FOR CARBON!!!
    https://www.wnd.com/2008/02/45838/

    https://enviroliteracy.org/energy/fo...biotic-theory/

    Quote Originally Posted by DaBangBang View Post
    Missing why it is a negative to embrace EV.. The pic of the Challenger/Chargers is weird considering its not like GM doesn't have the Camaro, Corvette, CTS-V, CT6-V and big SUVs and Trucks. Marketing aside, GM has more actual performance cars than FCA.

    anyway.. All of the aforementioned stuff aside.. how can anyone, even as a conservative justify saying that we really shouldn't already be embracing and mass producing alternative transportation modes, moving from a 100+ year fossil fuel addiction that will eventually run out? Gas/diesel is dirty.. its inefficient.. its hot. EV is clean.. cool... and very efficient.. The efficiency is even clearly evident in the fact that its power and torque is ready from 1 RPM.. vs having to turn the engine to the 1000s to really see true power.

    GM made this announcement almost 2 years ago and no one paid attention.. Definitely not me. Remember the announcement that GM wold have 20 new EV vehicles by 2023



    Got me thinking.. Could this be it? Is this the date of change.. sorta like a GOING ON-LINE DATE?

    Thinking.. Why would U need a Cruze sized vehicle if the goal of the Cruze was to cut emissions? An EV would instantly do that. I will be the first to wonder why the Volt would be killed.. as it would be the perfect name to simply go all electric is we are at the point that we can do so with better range than even the 250 miles range of the 60 kWh Bolt. Surely GM can beat the Rivian's range estimates of 300 miles for the 135-kwh, 400 miles for the 180-kwh, and 230 miles for the 105-kwh.

    ACCEPTANCE is what it is.. if GM is doing what I said above, because lets face it.. if they don't move ahead with electrification.. they are DONE in 15 years. I mean it. IF THIS IS THE PLAN.. then applaud Mary Barra, an engineer by training. A lotta people are thinking about the Human factor concerning the lost of thousands of jobs.. Baltimore is slated to lose 300 jobs. That hits close to home. EV and Hydrogen powered vehicles will sit along with the Gas/diesel ones for another decade I'm sure.

    I think the thinking is that if the Volt is dead... those sales will probably go right to the Bolt. I could see that too. The Volt is at Detroit-Hamtramck which is getting the axe.. furthermore the Volt was up for a redo in 2020.. Who says that the Volt is really dead? It may just being renamed and reconfigured (FINALLY) to be a CUV EV in line with the Bolt. AGAIN..

    It is seriously estimated that there is about 52 years left.. that's 2070.. oil reserves left on the Planet Earth. Yes.. we have a little time base don current world population.. but what happens if population explodes again.. or there is a massive war? Why are we considering or even talking about neglecting a move into alternative propulsion systems? Furthermore.. where's the harm unless U are a lobbyist or employee of Exxon-Mobil and the like? If still If GM is the only company that breaks away from oil based cars.. which I still don't see happening for more than 20% of their line-up.. for at least another 10-15 years based on their current rate of movement.. then so be it.. U still have many other companies that will gladly continue building liquid fuel consuming ICEs.

    I am no tree hugger by any means.. and wouldn't consider a [email protected]#kin Prius if my life depended on it.. I'm a known car guy.. and high horsepower gas drinkers are my goto.. with 2 S/C V8 cars, and 2 NA V8s in my stable..

    But "marketing aside" is not the real world, the world of peoples' perceptions. Dodge has the PR Machine. GM has Corvettes and Camaros and hot Caddys up the wazoo, but how many consumers know about them vs. The Dodge Boys burning tires up?

    "Oil addiction" comes from the political stratosphere where the oxygen is thin. Building a modern Western Civilization is hardly an "addiction." Just where would we be today without petroleum-sourced energy? The nineteenth century, that's where.

    I have no gripe with those who want to explore alternate power sources for individual transportation modules, aka cars. Where I do have a beef is their being forced on us by all-knowing bureaucrats, the worst example being a low-grade moron who wants to do away with all cars, all aircraft, and essentially all signs of Western Civilization including central heat and air and rapid movement and preservation of essential food supplies. But morons are morons, that is all they are.

    Predicting what business will "be successful in 15 years" is a risky business at best, and many have lost their fortunes thinking they had the key. Betting the farm on a vapor Chinese market when China has 100+ electric vehicle makers already on the ground, have already milked GM for advanced technology they couldn't develop, and somehow thinking that the commies, who hate and want to replace and destroy us, will somehow for some obscure reason buy a bunch of GM vehicles...It would not be the first time trusting dupes from the West bought hook, line, and sinker some Red's sales pitch. Iron curtain, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by joey View Post
    I don't think we watch NASCAR as an appliance show. Racing and driving freedom is in our blood. You might want to go call an UBER.

    Go check on YOUTUBE for Tesla costs: dozen of videos on EV's that are now worthless because a battery replacement is over $20K and $15K motor replacements Tesla's are worthless after the 8 year warranty.

    I need one 3 minute gas fill up on a 350 mile trip. Never seen a charge station or the 1 hour for a "quick" charge on the turnpike yet.

    Acura NSX and BMW i8 are great HYBRID sport cars. Still need that ICE engine for any real range.
    A Tesla S can give you 15 minutes of "insane" mode before an hour recharge. I'll stick with the hybrids thanks.
    I think hybrids are the smart middle ground. Like them or not, Prius plowed new earth and Toyota is hardly finished in that area. If I were buying stock, it would be Toyota, not GM. Not China.

    I drove by one of those independent used car dealers. Lease them too. Among the 20 or so ICE vehicles including a '74 Grand Prix, were six Teslas. Six. The joint was closed so I didn't ask.
    It's Reliance Rental and Leasing Co, Maumee Ohio, 419-787-8291.
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 04-09-2019 at 07:22 PM.
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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Then I believe GM will be BK very soon.

    This "All Electric" future is the most short sighted idea I have ever heard of, since you are still going to need far more fossil fuel that everyone thinks to generate enough electricity to power all of these vehicles, homes, businesses, factories, etc....

    Then there is the very "inconvenient truth" that many countries entire economy is 100% dependent upon fossil fuel production (like Norway and all the Middle Eastern Countries) - what could possibly go wrong by making all of the Middle East a bunch of pauper countries overnight..........!!!!!!!!

    None of this is really going to 'clean up' anything more than if we just allow the "normal progression" of technology find it's "level of balance" where the actual emissions will be identical from a 50% Gas/Diesel - 50% Hybrid/EV market or somewhere around those levels where even the Gas/Diesel vehicles emissions are drastically reduced as is fuel use and that does not even include CNG/LPG conversions which in many cases is just a "Environmentally Friendly" as an EV and many cases can actually have significantly lower Carbon footprint.

    Someone named Mary needs a serious "reality check" with what the real end results will be, same with ride sharing and AV's which will never deliver on their promises.

    Yes, EV's will become more common and there will be ride sharing (mainly urban areas), and don't think AV's will be anywhere near as common as predicted as many very serious "unforseen" drawbacks will "show up" as they enter the market.

    The global markets will ultimately set the "level of balance" of all of these "solutions" and to go "All In" now on a single strategy is foolish at best and if that strategy does not change, there must be an immediate change in who is making the decisions.

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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Aren't hybrids a stopgap & expensive needing both an ICE and batteries?
    Hybrid is where the market is going, except apparently GM, because it makes the most sense. Smaller ICE buffered by a battery. The transmissions are actually much simpler than a traditional automatic, and the ICE can be more efficient because it's always running itself at 100% load and uses the twin electric motors to either bleed off excess torque or add additional torque. They are great, with none of the downfalls of an EV. And with battery technology where it's at now (where a hybrid has no compromises like they used to have), we are at the point where vehicles like the Rav4 Hybrid and upcoming Escape Hybrid will be best selling, high demand variants.

    Disclaimer: I got 46 MPG on a 25 mile commute this morning without even trying, including a few instances with the petal to the floor. And didn't even have to mess around trying to find a plug anywhere. Just take 3 minutes to add 10 gallons to the tank and I'm good for 400 miles.

    And whoever was trying to make a point about about engines having to spin at 1,000 RPM versus electric or whatever? At 60 MPH the electric motor in a Fusion Hybrid spins at about 10,000 RPM, so not sure what your point is. A GM 1.4T makes the same torque at every speed except the extremes.
    Last edited by 'Vette Dude; 04-09-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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    Re: We believe in an all-electric future, here’s what we’re doing today to get there

    Her Utopian Vision, would require the United States, to increase our electrical power production by 40 to 50 gigawatts just for GM'S projected Fantasy sales.

    Now lets combine that with Fords, Toyotas, VAG's, Tesla's, Volvo's and all does other wannabes, we're looking at a need for 160 to 200 surge gigawatts a day.

    So should we not be talking about building power plants and laying down the infrastructure to fulfill the Utopian wet dreams that the Auto Manufacturers have, or is it a case of putting the Cart ahead of the Horse.
    Last edited by FactChecker90803; 04-13-2019 at 09:44 PM.

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