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(new pics) Should Volt have been like this?

15K views 83 replies 58 participants last post by  PHAT-JAY 
#1 · (Edited)
Should Volt
have been like this?





Op-Ed by MonaroSS
GMI Contributor – 8 April 2012



Below is my Chevy Voltage chop, which I made from toning down the bulges of the Transformer’s Corvette Concept and plonking the 4-door cabin from the Fisker Karma into it’s middle. I could have used say an Old’s Aurora cabin as easily, but the Karma makes my point better.



Click to Enlarge



God bless Bob Lutz, but he made an error right at the beginning of the Volt program because GM was too focussed on the Toyota Prius. And because of that, they chose to base Volt on the Delta platform; that was the error.

History tells us that expensive new technology moves into the automotive market by first appearing in expensive desirable vehicles and then trickling down to the mass market. This way the bitter pill of the cost associated with it is mitigated by the spoon full of sugar; which is the sexiness and desirability of those expensive vehicles.

To my eyes the Fisker Karma is a very attractive vehicle, and I would go further and say that my Chevy Voltage chop is even hotter, because it uses to good effect the styling that GM Design has available to it. Had Bob decided not to go against history and went the Fisker Karma route, then the Volt on sale today could easily look like the Chevrolet Voltage. And at $70,000 I bet they would be selling way more than the current Volt is; and dealers would be clamouring to get one on their forecourt. Sex sells. Even if you like the look of the Volt, it is not sexy.

It is also a lot harder to make a value proposition case for a $20K car having $10K of Voltec technology and a $10K battery pack added, thus selling for $40K, than to add that same $20K to a $50K car and selling it for $70K.

GM should have taken the aluminium frame of the Corvette Z06, stretched it to a 4-door, plonked in the Turbo Ecotec mated to the 2-Mode transmission, clothed it in a body like my Chevy Voltage made of carbon fibre, and stuffed it full of batteries. That would have gotten them 90% there to having a Fisker Karma competitor that people would genuinely desire and clamour for.

To deal with Toyota’s Prius they should have simply offered the Chevy Cruze with a range of eAssist hybrids and a plug-in version.

So what do others feel? Is the Chevy Volt package the best way to sell America on electrification of the automobile, or has Fisker with it's sexy and stylish Karma and new Atlantic found the better way to sell the idea to America? And then let the technology get cheaper with time until it's eventually within everyone's price range?



Click to Enlarge





I'm thinking that something in between your rather exotic looking render, MonaroSS, and the current staid and stodgy looking Volt might have hit the sweet spot. Your render is a bit swoopy for what the car is.

And yes, the Cadillac can afford to be more exotic looking, and should have been first with this.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that GM should have had both a Cadillac and Chevrolet version but not on Delta but on the SWB Epsilon II. The advantage of more real estate would have made for a much better looking car in back -- I think the front end is fine, in fact I find it quite handsome.


Perhaps SWB EP would have given more options, more room so batteries didn't eat the fifth seat, and justified the price.....

And even allowed a Sportwagon....






Also, at least I would have done a few things differently with the current car. First, the black paint and black plastic were a halfhearted effort to placate the loss of the original concept lower side window step. Offer it as an option but offer all one-color like below as well. And offer optional larger wheels as below for those who want to dress their Volt up in a little more sporting fashion. Those are no-brainer small cost and could be done right now.

On the technology front I would have co-developed and co-released a half-range half-size battery pack model that restored the third rear seat. That model would be $5,000 cheaper.

I would also have co-developed and co-released a turbo-diesel version not just for Europe but the US as well; and offer it in both the full and half range models. I would market it as the ‘bio-diesel-electric’ model. It would appeal even more to the 'green' buyers. Even if GM had to install and sell bio-diesel from their own fuel pumps in the major markets, they could say that a few bio-diesel pumps is all that’s needed - as you fill up a Volt so rarely…





The Opel Ampera already had the lower panels white, but here I've deleted the black paint as well...










;)
 
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#2 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Fact of the matter is, Volt should have been the second car launched. Cadillac ELR should have launched first.

I know why GM thought Chevy should have launched first, but GM is struggling with cost and ROI and is trying to force down the price. You wouldn't have that problem with ELR. If it launched at $55-60,000, it would have undercut Fisker and Tesla by thousands. It would have gotten instant recognition from influential people. And I'm willing to bet, it would have recovered more on the investment too. Then 2 years later, Volt can launch at a lower price point.

The Voltage is a nice idea. The design is nice. But Karma is a luxury brand. THis should be a Cadillac.
 
#23 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I love it, it's beautiful. Also, well put in the commentary. The crux of it is spot on.

Fact of the matter is, Volt should have been the second car launched. Cadillac ELR should have launched first.

I know why GM thought Chevy should have launched first, but GM is struggling with cost and ROI and is trying to force down the price. You wouldn't have that problem with ELR. If it launched at $55-60,000, it would have undercut Fisker and Tesla by thousands. It would have gotten instant recognition from influential people. And I'm willing to bet, it would have recovered more on the investment too. Then 2 years later, Volt can launch at a lower price point.

The Voltage is a nice idea. The design is nice. But Karma is a luxury brand. THis should be a Cadillac.
I doubted you in the beginning, but I now fully agree. ELR needed to be first. And Delta II was a mistake.
 
#3 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The Fisker is a better looking car for sure, making the Volt look as good would be great if it could have been done at no extra cost, but I seriously doubt it. The biggest problem with the Volt now is its price, making it more expensive would make it that much harder to sell. As people get a chance to spend some time behind the wheel of a Volt they will realize what it is that makes it the highest rated car in customer satisfication and that isn't the body, but its the surperb Voltec drivetrain.
 
#80 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

God bless Bob Lutz, but he made an error right at the beginning of the Volt program because GM was too focused on the Toyota Prius. And because of that, they chose to base Volt on the Delta platform; that was the error.
I disagree, I believe he was more focused on the fact that Toyota had an amazing fuel efficient car that was a hit all over the world, the Volt is not a Prius, by far, it's a much better car with a completely different and more efficient powertrain that actually has the potential to wean us off oil much more than the Prius over could. Perhaps he wanted the Volt to be the ''green image'' car the Prius is to Toyota, without looking dorky. About the Delta platform, what do you suggest they would built the Volt on? The Delta platform was new, most of the engineering was done and only needed slight modification to fit the battery in there, I think it was more of a cost saving move then a let's copy the Prius move.

History tells us that expensive new technology moves into the automotive market by first appearing in expensive desirable vehicles and then trickling down to the mass market.
Bold move from GM to break the mold no? Yes it's on the higher price end of a similar sized car, but look at what's under the hood!

To my eyes the Fisker Karma is a very attractive vehicle, and I would go further and say that my Chevy Voltage chop is even hotter, because it uses to good effect the styling that GM Design has available to it. Had Bob decided not to go against history and went the Fisker Karma route, then the Volt on sale today could easily look like the Chevrolet Voltage. And at $70,000 I bet they would be selling way more than the current Volt is; and dealers would be clamouring to get one on their forecourt. Sex sells. Even if you like the look of the Volt, it is not sexy.
I see it the other way around, other companies can't figure out how to make an extended range electric vehicle without throwing $30,000 of ''luxury'' at it to make a buck. The chop is hot, no doubt.

It is also a lot harder to make a value proposition case for a $20K car having $10K of Voltec technology and a $10K battery pack added, thus selling for $40K, than to add that same $20K to a $50K car and selling it for $70K.
Payments on a well equipped Chevy Cruze Eco + $200 of gas a month = the payments on a Volt and 30bucks of electricity to run it, maybe a bit more, but totally worth it, as the price of gas goes up, the difference becomes the same.

GM should have taken the aluminum frame of the Corvette Z06, stretched it to a 4-door, plonked in the Turbo Ecotec mated to the 2-Mode transmission, clothed it in a body like my Chevy Voltage made of carbon fibre, and stuffed it full of batteries. That would have gotten them 90% there to having a Fisker Karma competitor that people would genuinely desire and clamour for.
yeeeaaaaa, but the Karma concept was introduced a full year after the Volt concept, so the production Volt was well into development. I'm sure down the road GM will have some sort of sexy electric sedan other than the Volt.

To deal with Toyota’s Prius they should have simply offered the Chevy Cruze with a range of eAssist hybrids and a plug-in version.
But isn't that what the Volt is? It's a Delta with slippery skin and a plug.

So what do others feel? Is the Chevy Volt package the best way to sell America on electrification of the automobile, or has Fisker with it's sexy and stylish Karma and new Atlantic found the better way to sell the idea to America? And then let the technology get cheaper with time until it's eventually within everyone's price range?
Bold to say it's the best way, because it is the first ''usable'' EV from GM. Fact is the Fisker is thousands of dollars more, yet the Volt is to expensive? Also it's not all about the initial purchase price, the cost of ownership is something you seriously must consider, for example I'm at 77% oil life after 7800miles. The cost of operating my Volt as an electric car is about 1/4 of what it costs to run it in gas mode, and it gets a respectable 37-45mpg.

The Opel Ampera already had the lower panels white, but here I've deleted the black paint as well...



I'm getting my lower plastic pieces painted to match the color, it will make a huge difference, my Volt is black so the black roof and the lower window trim work well. I agree that on other colored Volts the lower plastic looks kinda odd.

The biggest problem with the Volt now is its price, making it more expensive would make it that much harder to sell. As people get a chance to spend some time behind the wheel of a Volt they will realize what it is that makes it the highest rated car in customer satisfaction and that isn't the body, but its the superb Voltec drivetrain.
Spending time behind the wheel is key, once you drive one, your sold. I think the Volt looks sharp.

Only if GM wanted to price it way more out of range than it already is.
But then I couldn't have been able to afford one!

GM are not going to sell lots of Volts, and they will lose money on every one they sell. So they should have made a more expensive vehicle that they don't need to sell lots of, and lose less on each sale - or maybe break even on...
That would make sense if you would make a profit, it would not if your still loosing, a loss is a loss. The ''more expensive'' vehicle is coming, the ELR, and the economy of scale will help too.

Ed Welburn says that the design team that did not win the Camaro design contest were used to design the Volt ... so the losing team got stuck designing this car and it shows.
You might want to check up on your sources, this is news to me. Besides, I don't think they would have felt ''stuck'' designing the most important vehicle for GM at the time, with that attitude they would have not lasted very long in the program.

You can share more for a better looking car, and that is one of the problems with Volt. It doesn't look like an expensive car, and it's a Chevrolet, and it's cramped and small. This combines to suggest that it isn't an expensive car. But the price says expensive or moderately expensive. Think what other vehicles you can buy for $40,000, and are they more desirable than Volt? Yes. A Cadillac version of Volt would have partially answered the attractiveness issue and could more easily justify the price, but as is, the Volt is an expensive car that doesn't look expensive
Have you ever seen, sat in or driven a Volt? At over 6 feet tall I'm very comfortable in the Volt and my passengers don't feel cramped. If you think other 40K cars are more desirable than a Volt, it's because their advertizing have conditioned you to believe so, if you haven't driven one yet, i suggest you go try it out for fun. (ok I know the car may be small for some folks it depends what you like or use to).

the Prius is the most successful alternate powertrain car and the technology started out at the Toyota, not Lexus, level. Also, it is impossible to measure the showroom traffic the Volt has brought into the showroom and led to the success of the Cruze, Malibu, etc. I would argue that might have had a bigger impact than if it were a Cadillac.
I agree

There is some unrealistic views in this thread as far as what the Volt is, and some realistic views as to what could be done to the Volt.
I suggest that people who want to know more about the Volt go to their locale library or book store and buy ''Charging into the future, Chevrolet Volt'' book, it's a great read.
 
#4 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Nice, easily your best image. Being rwd and with those vette rwd offset wheels definitely looks good.
Missing one detail, how does the front bumper go on? (and the hood for that matter).
I fully agree that the ELR should definitely have come first before the volt.
I do think that gm designed the volt as it should be.
 
#6 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Nice, easily your best image. Being rwd and with those vette rwd offset wheels definitely looks good.
Missing one detail, how does the front bumper go on?
I fully agree that the ELR should definitely have come first before the volt.
I do think that gm designed the volt as it should be.
Good question. Below are the two pics I used and the GM Design team must have made the front in one part, as I can't see a join. I guess a small cut-line similar to the Fisker would be the way to go...






;)
 
#5 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Um terrible Idea, I'm a performance man myself but we must realize that performance doesn't sell like it use to, that's why the egg heads at the old GM made the volt a purely econo car sure many of us have said it should have been anything but a Chevrolet due to cost of the car, but in the end run the volt is the right car for the future, and maybe down the road the time will come when a performance car based off the volt will come. Until then remember GM was on death's door step and the company had to sell not only the car but the company itself.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Um terrible Idea, I'm a performance man myself but we must realize that performance doesn't sell like it use to, that's why the egg heads at the old GM made the volt a purely econo car sure many of us have said it should have been anything but a Chevrolet due to cost of the car, but in the end run the volt is the right car for the future, and maybe down the road the time will come when a performance car based off the volt will come. Until then remember GM was on death's door step and the company had to sell not only the car but the company itself.
I'm not necessarily saying it has to be a performance car, but the more it can look like a million dollars, the more perceived value people will believe they are getting.

The higher the price point of similar vehicles the easier it is to absorb the Voltec technology cost into the price of the car. I simply believe GM over-reached too soon. Many of us falsely believe that those who lead the way with technology proper the most from it, but that is often not the case. History is littered with companies that spent all the money and put in the hard graft to forge a new path only to have others come in afterwards and cut their lunch...

There is nothing wrong with the Volt per se, I just think its half a decade ahead of its sweet spot. GM should have led the way in with a more premium vehicle, be it something like this Chevy Voltage, or a Caddy…


;)
 
#30 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

At the very least they could have done this. Most of it has already been fabricated for the Ampera. You'd think GM would put a bit more effort into their halo car!



lol a bit more effort?

The Volt is one of the highest rated cars on the road right now...
 
#10 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Only if GM wanted to price it way more out of range than it already is.
But it would not be more out of range of the people who would then buy it. GM are not going to sell lots of Volts, and they will lose money on every one they sell. So they should have made a more expensive vehicle that they don't need to sell lots of, and lose less on each sale - or maybe break even on...



;)
 
#11 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I saw a Fisker going do the street about a week ago and was shocked it look good from the rear but once on the side it is ill formed because of the stretched front. As for the question at hand.....NO! the Volt looks good and will look even better as the ELR!
 
#12 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Ed Welburn says that the design team that did not win the Camaro design contest were used to design the Volt ... so the losing team got stuck designing this car and it shows.

And yes it the Volt technology should have been put in a Cadillac first.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Ed Welburn says that the design team that did not win the Camaro design contest were used to design the Volt ... so the losing team got stuck designing this car and it shows.

And yes it the Volt technology should have been put in a Cadillac first.
Agree Volt should-a-been-a-Caddy. Perhaps they could've used Jackie Chan in some commercials, anything would be an improvement over the standard GM/Lame ads.

I'd say start at 50 grand and option it up to 60 plus. As Monaro says, your top tech should always lead at the top of the line. They should've included the all-but-forgotten night vision as standard, also.

GM develops great tech and then lays it aside.

Who's in charge over there, anyway?

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that GM should have had both a Cadillac and Chevrolet version but not on Delta but on the SWB Epsilon II. The advantage of more real estate would have made for a much better looking car in back -- I think the front end is fine, in fact I find it quite handsome.
Larger cars don't cost significantly more to produce than smaller cars. If you're starting at 40 Large (standard Volt) and optioning up to 45+, you might just as well make the psychological leap to 50 grand with a larger, higher-status, and more attractive vehicle.

Cadillac. Standard of the World.

Chevrolet. Apple Pie.

You choose.

I always wondered if branding it a Chev might have been a potential problem, i know Chev has some expensive cars like Corvette and high end Silverado's but when you try position the brand as affordable and you come out with something as amazing as Volt, the badge snobs wouldnt look at it for how amazing it is.

I def think it should have started as a Cadillac and worked its way down, higher price so they didnt lose so much per car, adds to Cadillac's image as the leader and when the price of the batteries came down a Buick and then a Chev version coudl have been released and all potentionally sold at profit straight away.
Ten-fo.

Does anyone remember how many units the original Toyota Prius sold? How much profit it made Toyota... one needs to start somewhere. I didn't/don't expect GM to bust out with a smash hit over night. The current Volt only needs to be successful enough to lay a solid foundation on which to build up to the next generation. I also don't think it should be cheapened--the more premium it is, the better.
I was wondering the same thing about the early Priii.
 
#13 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

You can chare more for a better looking car, and that is one of the problems with Volt. It doesn't look like an expensive car, and it's a Chevrolet, and it's cramped and small. This combines to suggest that it isn't an expensive car. But the price says expensive or moderately expensive.
Think what other vehicles you can buy for $40,000, and are they more desirable than Volt? Yes.
A Cadillac version of Volt would have partially answered the attractiveness issue and could more easily justify the price, but as is, the Volt is an expensive car that doesn't look expensive
 
#14 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I think if you made a 4 door Corvette it would only make the Corvette customers made. They would not want a car like the Volt that looks like their performance car unless the Voltage model was just as high of performance which would cause it to have the same issues the Karma has, unimpressive fuel economy. I think this technology will most appeal to those that want to avoid using gas and like the latest technology, not to performance car enthusiasts, at least not as much.

In the end this technology will never be successful unless it can be sold as a mainstream car. Maybe the ELR should have been first, that can easily be argued, but the Prius is the most successful alternate powertrain car and the technology started out at the Toyota, not Lexus, level.

Also, it is impossible to measure the showroom traffic the Volt has brought into the showroom and led to the success of the Cruze, Malibu, etc. I would argue that might have had a bigger impact than if it were a Cadillac. MonaroSS, I do appreciate your ideas but I just don't fully agree with this one. Beautiful car anyway.
 
#15 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I'm thinking that something in between your rather exotic looking render, MonaroSS, and the current staid and stodgy looking Volt might have hit the sweet spot. Your render is a bit swoopy for what the car is.

And yes, the Cadillac can afford to be more exotic looking, and should have been first with this.
 
#52 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I'm thinking that something in between your rather exotic looking render, MonaroSS, and the current staid and stodgy looking Volt might have hit the sweet spot. Your render is a bit swoopy for what the car is.

And yes, the Cadillac can afford to be more exotic looking, and should have been first with this.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that GM should have had both a Cadillac and Chevrolet version but not on Delta but on the SWB Epsilon II. The advantage of more real estate would have made for a much better looking car in back -- I think the front end is fine, in fact I find it quite handsome.

Perhaps SWB EP would have given more options, more room so batteries didn't eat the fifth seat, and justified the price.....

And even allowed a Sportwagon....





;)
 
#16 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?



All they needed to do was look true to the original concept and it would have made a drastic difference. The concept looks futuristic and muscular. The production version looks, well, like a rental car. It doesn't need to look like an exotic to get sales and justify the price, it just needs to NOT look like a car that's half the price. Someone else mentioned the ELR too - even if that was little more than a re-skin of a volt body, it wouldn't have mattered, because it looks the part

 
#17 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?



All they needed to do was look true to the original concept and it would have made a drastic difference. The concept looks futuristic and muscular. The production version looks, well, like a rental car. It doesn't need to look like an exotic to get sales and justify the price, it just needs to NOT look like a car that's half the price. Someone else mentioned the ELR too - even if that was little more than a re-skin of a volt body, it wouldn't have mattered, because it looks the part

Yeah, well as Bob Lutz famously said, the original concept was like a brick in the wind tunnel. It was more aerodynamic, BACKWARDS.

Volt is what it is, better looking than a Prius.

Nuff said.
 
#18 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

There is some unrealistic views in this thread as far as what the Volt is, and some realistic views as to what could be done to the Volt.

Firstly the Volt is built on the same platform as the Chevy Cruze, designing and engineering it on the Corvette's Y body would have been a lot of work. It could have been done, but it would have been a different platform all together. Secondly the Cadillac version was designed later on, I completely agree that a Cadillac could more easily justify the price tag. Though considering that the Volt sold more then 2,000 units last month I don't see the price holding it back as much as some think.

On the concept Volt design, I would have loved to see that and maybe with the second generation as they improve the efficiency of the drive train. Maybe they can do a design that is more true to the first concept produced, design works wonders.
 
#20 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that GM should have had both a Cadillac and Chevrolet version but not on Delta but on the SWB Epsilon II. The advantage of more real estate would have made for a much better looking car in back -- I think the front end is fine, in fact I find it quite handsome.
 
#21 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

God bless Bob Lutz, but he made an error right at the beginning of the Volt program because GM was too focussed on the Toyota Prius. And because of that, they chose to base Volt on the Delta platform; that was the error.

History tells us that expensive new technology moves into the automotive market by first appearing in expensive desirable vehicles and then trickling down to the mass market.
I agree with that sentiment focus. Setting expectations different right from the start would have resulted in a very different outcome. The constant comparisons to Prius never made any sense, since supposedly the goal of Volt wasn't the same. Yet, there was a never-ending theme of matching purpose.

Making Volt a premiere vehicle would have been a wise move. Treat it like a high-desired niche vehicle rather than something intended for mainstream penetration immediately upon rollout.

Prius did not follow the traditional route for introduction of new technologies, it differed from history. It debuted with a sticker-price of just $19,995. That directly aimed it at middle-market rather than targeting the high-end. Then when it was upgraded in late 2003, there were a variety of new high-end feature offered that weren't even available on Lexus vehicles. Prius carved out it's own packaging niche instead of totally recalibrating for the mainstream... which obviously proved a successful move, based on sales and the reaction from competitors.

So what will happen with Volt now to broaden its reach? It's a whole lot easier to offer more than to scale down. Or should becoming affordable not even be a priority for Volt? What if the technology was expanded in low-cost form to a model of Cruze instead? Keep Volt for enthusiasts and create a new offering for high-volume sales.
 
#40 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I agree with that sentiment focus. Setting expectations different right from the start would have resulted in a very different outcome. The constant comparisons to Prius never made any sense, since supposedly the goal of Volt wasn't the same. Yet, there was a never-ending theme of matching purpose.

Making Volt a premiere vehicle would have been a wise move. Treat it like a high-desired niche vehicle rather than something intended for mainstream penetration immediately upon rollout.

Prius did not follow the traditional route for introduction of new technologies, it differed from history. It debuted with a sticker-price of just $19,995. That directly aimed it at middle-market rather than targeting the high-end. Then when it was upgraded in late 2003, there were a variety of new high-end feature offered that weren't even available on Lexus vehicles. Prius carved out it's own packaging niche instead of totally recalibrating for the mainstream... which obviously proved a successful move, based on sales and the reaction from competitors.

So what will happen with Volt now to broaden its reach? It's a whole lot easier to offer more than to scale down. Or should becoming affordable not even be a priority for Volt? What if the technology was expanded in low-cost form to a model of Cruze instead? Keep Volt for enthusiasts and create a new offering for high-volume sales.
Prius sells on this...

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s10e02-smug-alert

Basically, it was an untapped market of people who want to think they're helping the environment. Toyota was able to sell them for 20K because they built a worst in class vehicle around the premise of best in class MPG. Fortunately for Toyota, there's a lot of naive people out there who just care about being perceived as better than someone else. For this group, the green movement will suffice.

There's many great parallel hybrids out there now, but only the Prii sell, and that's do to the marketing and smug factor. Anything else is delusional thinking. The market for a POS with great MPG is rather small - and Toyota has it on lock with the Prii.

Any great technology initially cost a lot. The fact Toyota was able to sell HSD at the pricepoint is that its not a very good technology. It's really only good for about 10 MPG. The rest is just a whole lot of compromise - from styling to engineering to performance to NVH. That's where the other 20 comes from.

At the time, it worked out really well for Toyota and lemmings like yourself who either want to look green or are too naive to understand you're not doing a lick of good with your purchases. But its a bridge to nowhere.

You keep advocating GM do what would be an awesome mistake. They're going to stick with Voltec, grow it and apply it to many different vehicles. Costs will plummet. In about 5 years you'll see Toyota try to begin catching up. You're going to see E-Assist do 80% of what HSD can do for 20% of the cost on the low end and Voltec continue to expand on the high end.

If you were an engineer you'd understand why HSD with a larger traction motor isn't going to solve anything or allow the system to scale to Voltec. You're going to see HSD have one of the shortest lives of any significant automotive technology. And when it happens you'll remember that anything worth owning started out expensive.

Anyway, enjoy the smugmobile...people who really want to save some gas and support the future are buying Volts.
 
#22 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The Volt is fine the way it is.

Your chop is good but more geared towards the enthusiasts market with its aggressive looks rather than how it is now. As of now its exactly what it needs to be quirky in design and appeals more to the mass consumer and more specifically towards the Prius crowd.

If you think sales are low now put that on the road and with the same system and watch the mass not like its style and the enthusiasts not like its lack of power.
 
#24 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

This is one of my favorites from you. You could be right, but it looks awfully expensive.

I don't know if you've seen one in person yet (they're rare enough around me), but it's really a good looking car, IMO. Perhaps not as sexy as yours, but still quite attractive. I think it fulfills its mission nicely.
 
#25 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I like the picture but the answer is No. It's perfect as is albeit still a little high in price. Nor would it have sold as a Cadillac. In fact it would have been far worse in sales. Especially when your competition is the Leaf, Focus electric and Prius. It's a battery car. People still aren't use to it. It will take many years for sales to ever really boom if these types of cars even do at all. Making it some niche Cadillac doesn't put the car out in the mainstream public eye. It needs to be a Chevrolet for GM to gain mass credibility in this arena. It won't happen overnight either. It will be an ongoing process. Everything is being done as should have been, they just need to keep a steady hand on the wheel.
 
#26 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I always wondered if branding it a Chev might have been a potential problem, i know Chev has some expensive cars like Corvette and high end Silverado's but when you try position the brand as affordable and you come out with something as amazing as Volt, the badge snobs wouldnt look at it for how amazing it is.

I def think it should have started as a Cadillac and worked its way down, higher price so they didnt lose so much per car, adds to Cadillac's image as the leader and when the price of the batteries came down a Buick and then a Chev version coudl have been released and all potentionally sold at profit straight away.
 
#27 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The car had to be a Chevy. Partly because of political push to put the administration's green vehicle into the greater market of the two, Chev and Cadilllac. However, despite its being slightly easier to sell a pricier car at the Cadillac level, selling fewer copies with somewhat better margins would not have paid the costs of development. We'd be having this same conversation.

The noose holding things back is that at other times and like other companies did, Chevy could have reduced the price and sold the Volts at a loss to establish the vehicle. But being under the constant criticism of the pro and con folks, they have to just operate as a profit-making company. Didn't Toyota sell Priuses at a loss for a time? And they also were given the benefit of US taxpayer dollars to sell the vehicles with a tax incentive. There is a tax incentive for GM now, but the constant poltical second-guessing folks make that a negative.

It also would be nice if GM could have marketed the platform in another country to get it past the teething stage and fix the minor problems.

As for the different design, I don't think it works. The Volt is a right size and a nicely done design.
 
#28 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Does anyone remember how many units the original Toyota Prius sold? How much profit it made Toyota... one needs to start somewhere. I didn't/don't expect GM to bust out with a smash hit over night. The current Volt only needs to be successful enough to lay a solid foundation on which to build up to the next generation. I also don't think it should be cheapened--the more premium it is, the better.
 
#39 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Does anyone remember how many units the original Toyota Prius sold?
Prius wasn't available on dealer's lots until May 2002. For the 1.5 years prior to that, it was direct-order quoted-limited long-wait sales only. So, actual demand was pretty much impossible to gauge. Of course, gas was only a third of the price it is now anyway. Only a tax-deduction available until 2006. That worked out to be $300 to $400 for the typical buyer. Sticker-Price was in the low 20's.

Profit came from creating Echo afterward, a non-hybrid sibling. The engine was retuned for horsepower instead of efficiency and the power-split-device replaced with a traditional transmission. That was cheaper to produce, could easily be sold in high-volume, and would help fund advancements with Prius. The plan worked out well too. Sometime in the summer of 2003 several economies-of-scale kicked in to return a profit for Prius itself.

Late in 2003, the Iconic model was rolled out and greeted with strong sales immediately, pushing it into the mainstream (60,000 annual) right away.

By the time the first tax-credit was offered in January 2006, the reputation of Prius was well established. The purpose of that subsidy was to achieve deep market penetration quickly and stimulate the competition to begin offering their own high-efficiency technology.

Toyota's approach was to increase efficiency along the way, keeping it priced for middle-market each step of the way. GM's approach is quite different, shooting for an ideal capacity immediately upon initial rollout, hoping the premium price will drop quickly.

Needless to say, it will be fascinating to watch how the market responds over the next few years. Plugging in is new to everyone. Priorities vary. Wants influence purchase decisions. Choices are limited.
 
#29 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Beautiful design.

However, I think this provides a more compelling answer to the Panamera. And while purists cringe at the thought of the Corvette becoming a more coveted mainstream commodity, the move appears to be doing quite well for Porsche.

I'm also not convinced that an exotic ER-EV would have produced a greater ROI than the current implementation of the Volt. You can alter vehicle designs and change the target demographic but we're expecting people to embrace a new technology that offers a limited immediate value proposition.

EVs are going to take time to be considered as a viable alternative to ICE-based vehicles. The main stumbling block isn't the cars, it's the batteries.
 
#31 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

GM should have brought out a prius priced vehicle for their first step and then worked their way up to a volt type vehicle. this way they would have had a car in the GM family that a lot more buyers could afford. GM swung for the fences but did not hit a home run as far as sales.
 
#32 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The only problem with the Volt is the price landed about 10 grand high of where they thought they were going with it. In time that will change, and pretty sure I heard the next Volt will be quite different looking than today's, not exactly an evolution of the current car.

As to the render, I'm all in favor of doing more cars on the same technology, and in fact the ELR is likely to be my next car. The next car they really need is something like the Buick Encore with a Voltec chassis. For now, the ELR will be enough of an electric car halo, although I'm certainly not against a sexy 4-door.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Aside from the Volt, this photochop makes a good argument for a Corvette branded 4-door. I wonder if GM would ever consider extending the Corvette line much like Porsche has with the Panamera. Great job MonaroSS!

I couldn't agree more with what you said about this photoshop making a good argument for a 4-door Corvette. It is amazing how great that awesome roofline and rear haunches looks with the Corvette front clip.

I too thought of the Porsche Panamera when I first saw it, however I have to say that this rendering looks a ton better than the Porsche. The design of the Porsche in my opinion looks a bit awkward. This car, on the other hand looks stunning.

With the changes to the corporate face on their vehicles and bits and pieces of the new Impala's design, it really seems that Chevrolet is trying to take their design into a much more premium-looking direction. I think that this car would would be a nitrous shot into this transition whether the vehicle was electric or gasoline driven.

Very nice rendering by the way, MonaroSS.
 
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