GM Inside News Forum banner

(new pics) Should Volt have been like this?

15K views 83 replies 58 participants last post by  PHAT-JAY 
#1 · (Edited)
Should Volt
have been like this?





Op-Ed by MonaroSS
GMI Contributor – 8 April 2012



Below is my Chevy Voltage chop, which I made from toning down the bulges of the Transformer’s Corvette Concept and plonking the 4-door cabin from the Fisker Karma into it’s middle. I could have used say an Old’s Aurora cabin as easily, but the Karma makes my point better.



Click to Enlarge



God bless Bob Lutz, but he made an error right at the beginning of the Volt program because GM was too focussed on the Toyota Prius. And because of that, they chose to base Volt on the Delta platform; that was the error.

History tells us that expensive new technology moves into the automotive market by first appearing in expensive desirable vehicles and then trickling down to the mass market. This way the bitter pill of the cost associated with it is mitigated by the spoon full of sugar; which is the sexiness and desirability of those expensive vehicles.

To my eyes the Fisker Karma is a very attractive vehicle, and I would go further and say that my Chevy Voltage chop is even hotter, because it uses to good effect the styling that GM Design has available to it. Had Bob decided not to go against history and went the Fisker Karma route, then the Volt on sale today could easily look like the Chevrolet Voltage. And at $70,000 I bet they would be selling way more than the current Volt is; and dealers would be clamouring to get one on their forecourt. Sex sells. Even if you like the look of the Volt, it is not sexy.

It is also a lot harder to make a value proposition case for a $20K car having $10K of Voltec technology and a $10K battery pack added, thus selling for $40K, than to add that same $20K to a $50K car and selling it for $70K.

GM should have taken the aluminium frame of the Corvette Z06, stretched it to a 4-door, plonked in the Turbo Ecotec mated to the 2-Mode transmission, clothed it in a body like my Chevy Voltage made of carbon fibre, and stuffed it full of batteries. That would have gotten them 90% there to having a Fisker Karma competitor that people would genuinely desire and clamour for.

To deal with Toyota’s Prius they should have simply offered the Chevy Cruze with a range of eAssist hybrids and a plug-in version.

So what do others feel? Is the Chevy Volt package the best way to sell America on electrification of the automobile, or has Fisker with it's sexy and stylish Karma and new Atlantic found the better way to sell the idea to America? And then let the technology get cheaper with time until it's eventually within everyone's price range?



Click to Enlarge





I'm thinking that something in between your rather exotic looking render, MonaroSS, and the current staid and stodgy looking Volt might have hit the sweet spot. Your render is a bit swoopy for what the car is.

And yes, the Cadillac can afford to be more exotic looking, and should have been first with this.
My opinion, for what it's worth, is that GM should have had both a Cadillac and Chevrolet version but not on Delta but on the SWB Epsilon II. The advantage of more real estate would have made for a much better looking car in back -- I think the front end is fine, in fact I find it quite handsome.


Perhaps SWB EP would have given more options, more room so batteries didn't eat the fifth seat, and justified the price.....

And even allowed a Sportwagon....






Also, at least I would have done a few things differently with the current car. First, the black paint and black plastic were a halfhearted effort to placate the loss of the original concept lower side window step. Offer it as an option but offer all one-color like below as well. And offer optional larger wheels as below for those who want to dress their Volt up in a little more sporting fashion. Those are no-brainer small cost and could be done right now.

On the technology front I would have co-developed and co-released a half-range half-size battery pack model that restored the third rear seat. That model would be $5,000 cheaper.

I would also have co-developed and co-released a turbo-diesel version not just for Europe but the US as well; and offer it in both the full and half range models. I would market it as the ‘bio-diesel-electric’ model. It would appeal even more to the 'green' buyers. Even if GM had to install and sell bio-diesel from their own fuel pumps in the major markets, they could say that a few bio-diesel pumps is all that’s needed - as you fill up a Volt so rarely…





The Opel Ampera already had the lower panels white, but here I've deleted the black paint as well...










;)
 
See less See more
6
#36 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Strange question with Volt coming off its best month ever...

Though I admit that like Mgescuro I once thought the ELR should have been first, I'm now completely in the camp believing the Volt, particularly branded as a Chevrolet, had to be first.

1. Chevrolet is the driving force behind GM. It's GM's strongest brand, yet it has perhaps the worst reputation. The Volt, being a technological wonder, is/was supposed to aid in changing that image. That is, they want Chevy to look less *******, more high tech.
2. Chevrolet, with all the trucks/suv's it sells, is viewed as not particularly eco-friendly. The Volt is supposed to change that viewpoint.
3. The Volt acts as a halo model for Chevrolet's other high mileage/eco-friendly models: Cruze, Sonic, Malibu Eco, and soon Spark. The Volt helps sell these models. The ELR will do no such thing for GM.
4. GM can easily re-badge, I know that's a dirty word around here, the Chevrolet model as an Opel and a Holden to sell in other markets around the world. Not to mention that GM is trying to establish the Chevrolet brand around the world as well. The Volt can sell as a Chevrolet in these markets. Cadillac is too far behind Chevrolet in this respect, and they would never clone a Cadillac to sell for "Chevy" money as an Opel or Holden.

Frankly, there have been other problems for the Volt other than its looks that have impeded its success... Not the least of which was/is GM's marketing of the vehicle, which has been downright awful at best. Their very recent ads featuring actual Volt owners have been, by far, the best ads for the Volt since GM started marketing the vehicle 18 months ago.

Let's not forget that there has been a very vocal campaign against the Volt from certain political groups... The Volt has been lampooned as the Government Motors Obamamobile. It's also been the victim of slander: Volts are catching on fire everywhere!!! Well, actually one caught on fire 3 weeks after it was crash tested... To folks who don't pay close attention to the auto market, they may certainly take falsehoods that have been said about the Volt as gospel, further hindering its success.

So, in conclusion, though I like your design, MonaroSS, and I too love the ELR and the Karma, the Volt is exactly where/what it should be. :)
 
#38 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The Volt should have LOOKED like an electric car, like the Prius looks like a hybrid. Maybe it should look like, hmmmm, oh - I think maybe the AMPERA! Not like the parts are in the inventory already or anything....
CUT the ties to the first generation "fire hazard {lol**" Volt, and the next 'gen II' Volt take on the Ampera's facias.... done.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Man I would buy one today, right now, this minute...next to my C7, that, and a new chevy tahoe/avalanche......

if that was the volt, the same size as the Karma, with the same drive train using the Ecotec motor power the rear wheel electric motors it would be a winner, and would be almost 35k cheaper than the Fisker.
 
#46 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Monaro how would the rear look this car. Would it look more like the upcoming C7, or would it look more like the Cien 100 Concept T2 Corvette. Thats is one thing that to me would make the car look out of proportion....The Karma looks great from the rear, and the Panamera but the karma looks like a coupe from the rear, and the Panamera looks like a wagon, I just wonder how your chop will look.
 
#48 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I think GM should have had the ELR and Volt out at the same time. That way they could have offset the cost of the Volt with a much higher priced ELR.

I'm hoping that with Voltec II we'll see it not only in a compact Volt but in a larger car as well as crossovers and sports-oriented cars, perhaps over at Cadillac. What I'm truly hoping for is:
  • Volt (Delta II)
  • Volt L (Epsilon II)
  • Volt MPV5
  • Buick Electra CUV (Epsilon Theta)
  • ELR (Delta II)
  • EXR (Alpha LWB)
 
#55 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I think GM should have had the ELR and Volt out at the same time. That way they could have offset the cost of the Volt with a much higher priced ELR.

I'm hoping that with Voltec II we'll see it not only in a compact Volt but in a larger car as well as crossovers and sports-oriented cars, perhaps over at Cadillac. What I'm truly hoping for is:
  • Volt (Delta II)
  • Volt L (Epsilon II)
  • Volt MPV5
  • Buick Electra CUV (Epsilon Theta)
  • ELR (Delta II)
  • EXR (Alpha LWB)
I would have liked to see the Cadillac first, and the Volt a year later. But really, what messed this all up was the economy and timing. As the initial volume of the car was expected to be low, without the BK, GM could have subsidized the initial sales directly. Starting it at 35 instead of 40 would have jumpstarted sales.

I like the styling - the favorite activity of GMI members is to say they'll buy anything that has styling elements from the Cien or the Corvette. I don't buy it.

That said, I don't think any of it really matters. The car is an unmitigated technological success with the highest owner satisfaction of any car. It's also a new technology with only one direction for price to go. Put all that together and even GM marketing won't be able to hold the car back for long.
 
#49 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

The Volt had to come first because it has far more reach as far as exposure and support with the Chevrolet dealer network than it does with Cadillac. We must remember that the Volt if you figure the tax credit or consider the lease special has Chevrolet vehicles far above it in price that also sell in volume. It awaits to be seen if the Karma will have significant sales, but as fast as they are rushing the Nina to market tells me that it does not sell well enough to sustain the brand with it's volume alone. I believe in a brief period of time less than two years and in fact maybe as short as one there will be a reduction in Volt cost which will bring it even further in line with Chevrolet pricing in many ways.
 
#51 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Good chops but I don't want volt to look anyof them.

On the mistakes and prius chase, I think the real mistake GM did was not giving Pontiac aztek a hybrid powertrain. Or another option they had was limiting ev1 range and put erev ev2.

GM didn't. Do both.
In case of volt I won't complain on platform. It was a good choice. The problems in my view was putting a design without any idea how and what are important (experience aerodynamics) .second one was the T battery. They would have gone for a clean design than using a coupe designed battery. Again they should have avoided the fake grill etc because you don't need a big grill.

Again now too gm tries to get eassist rolling seems to be mistake for me. They should make it a standard mode on all cars and find a better battery space than trunk.

Next Gen volt expectations:
Clean sheet design with space for 5 people and as aerodynamic as possible.
30k or less
Better cs mpg
Explain people whys with reasons (e shape: say to customer it takes less money/fuel)
Less complex system
 
#53 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

First gen should have been a Cadi or Buick - since they have the Verano on the same platform. Delta is very stiff and refined, albeit slightly cramped. A $40,000 compact car is tough to swallow, especially as it's a profit loser. Toyota had deep pockets to sustain itself for a decade until the prius became profitable.

The chief engineer told me that the Cd stopped at 0.28 because they ran out of budget. A Cadi could have justified more wind tunnel time to drop it to 0.24-0.26. Even if it's a minor range improvement, it's fitting to the most advanced car of its time. GM wanted it to be the "every man's" electric car - that's why they branded it a Chevy. As such they stopped short of great in many areas to meet a price point. Second gen will chop a few thousand off the price.

Chevy now has the most advanced car, and fastest and most expensive cars in GM - front the "value" brand...
 
#56 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I disagree...
Stretched aluminum frame
Turbo ICE
Sexy/sporty body

All these things just scream "toy". I have enough toys (see sig), I wanted a super efficient commuter car that could also be used on long trips, maintain the efficiency, and still have good utility.

Had the Volt been built as you described, it would have been a very sexy, but useless toy and it would have been prohibitively expensive. The Volt is expensive enough as it is, but the cost is not prohibitive. There are plenty of people with $40K to spend on a gas-guzzling SUV or a Camaro. You don't hear these vehicles being criticized for their price?

I own a Volt right now because GM made a car that suited the needs of most, while staying within a price range that was viable for many (not all) people. Had the Volt been an electric Cadillac or a sexy Corvette-inspired sport car, most ACTUAL volt owners wouldn't want one.

I'm a practical car buyer. Had the Volt been a Caddy there is no way I would have purchased it! I'm not willing to pay an extra $10K-$15K to have a Cadillac crest on the hood and a 10% fancier interior. No f'in way.

The interior of the Volt is "near" Cadillac, the drive is more quiet, and the level of service is probably above the what the average Cadillac owner gets. Throw in 5 years of free OnStar, a free Volt advisor, and a car that comes LOADED from the factory and the Volt is a pretty good deal.
 
#57 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

MonaroSS .......

As usual, your designs are exceptional, but GM needed a "common man's/woman's" car, something your Volt/Karma is not. Production volume, along with constant technological advancement, makes the Volt what GM needed at the time and for the immediate future. I'm not happy with the styling, but I realize that the Volt concept was not as aerodynamic as the production car and did not meet federal safety requirements. The Caddy should have been ready for launch about a year later. Again, the production car design would be changed by the need to satisfy the government.

If the Volt were to be restyled a little bit sexier, I'd go with the styling from the 2003 Chevy SS Concept, rather than a Vette/Fisker graft. Unfortunately, safety rules would require thick "B" & "C" pillars. Think about what you would do with the SS Concept as a Volt. BTW your Volt Sportwagon is georgeous.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

MonaroSS .......

As usual, your designs are exceptional, but GM needed a "common man's/woman's" car, something your Volt/Karma is not. Production volume, along with constant technological advancement, makes the Volt what GM needed at the time and for the immediate future. I'm not happy with the styling, but I realize that the Volt concept was not as aerodynamic as the production car and did not meet federal safety requirements. The Caddy should have been ready for launch about a year later. Again, the production car design would be changed by the need to satisfy the government.

If the Volt were to be restyled a little bit sexier, I'd go with the styling from the 2003 Chevy SS Concept, rather than a Vette/Fisker graft. Unfortunately, safety rules would require thick "B" & "C" pillars. Think about what you would do with the SS Concept as a Volt. BTW your Volt Sportwagon is gorgeous.
Thanks,

At least I would have done a few things differently with the current car. First, the black paint and black plastic were a halfhearted effort to placate the loss of the original concept lower side window step. Offer it as an option but offer all one-color like below as well. And offer optional larger wheels as below for those who want to dress their Volt up in a little more sporting fashion. Those are no-brainer small cost and could be done right now.

On the technology front I would have co-developed and co-released a half-range half-size battery pack model that restored the third rear seat. That model would be $5,000 cheaper.

I would also have co-developed and co-released a turbo-diesel version not just for Europe but the US as well; and offer it in both the full and half range models. I would market it as the ‘bio-diesel-electric’ model. It would appeal even more to the 'green' buyers. Even if GM had to install and sell bio-diesel from their own fuel pumps in the major markets, they could say that a few bio-diesel pumps is all that’s needed - as you fill up a Volt so rarely…






;)
 
#61 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Monaro as usual quality commentary, but I sincerely think it will all make sense soon as battery costs continue to plummet.
 
#64 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I say NO and think the ELR should be a LARGE LUX new fleetwood type of car and the TECH show up in the VOLT that is NOW avail 1-2 years later
BUT GM was constantly showing the volt concept WAY to SOON and WAY to often AND the GFC and announcements that the VOLT is the ONLY GM project to not get "paused" made the VOLT the required first car
 
#71 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

I say NO and think the ELR should be a LARGE LUX new fleetwood type of car and the TECH show up in the VOLT that is NOW avail 1-2 years later
BUT GM was constantly showing the volt concept WAY to SOON and WAY to often AND the GFC and announcements that the VOLT is the ONLY GM project to not get "paused" made the VOLT the required first car

The Voltage should have been a Cadillac and in the market now. It should also have been launched first, then the Volt much later. This Volt should have never been launched in its current form. The current Volt looks dated.

Car Vehicle Wheel Tire Land vehicle
 
#66 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

MonaroSS ....... I'm surprised how getting rid of the black paint on the doors and front end of the Volt change the appearence for the better. As for the Sport Wagon, your example is based (I believe) on the Opel, but it could easily be based on the Cruse wagon that was revealed back in the beginning of March. If I remember, it had a great shape that would lend itself to a Volt derivative.

The reduced battery pack probably wouldn't work, as the Volt bashers in the media would immediately attack it for the reduced "electric only" mileage.

On the other hand, a turbo diesel would mean increased total mileage, a plus for GM and for Volt owners.
 
#70 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Your sport wagon Volt is sweet.
Monaro SS, you created the custom touches that I would personally do were I go get a Volt in the lighter colors.
Thanks, the Volt looks especially nice all white I think. The Opel Ampera already had the lower panels white, but here I've deleted the black paint as well...





;)
 
#69 ·
Re: Should Volt have been like this?

Monaro SS, you created the custom touches that I would personally do were I go get a Volt in the lighter colors.
 
#72 ·
I don't see many Volts on the road but when I do, all I see is a Lumina. The shapes of the grille, side glass, and silhouette all remind me of one of the homeliest sedans America ever built. And a car must look at least good for me to consider it.
 
#74 ·
#76 ·
You're comparing two companies, one wealthy enough to subsidized for years the Prius to build it's sales and reputation, the other a small start-up car company in an industry where 90% of such companies go under regardless of how good their product is.

I am discussing what product would have been the better place to 'start' intr0ducing the public to plug-in electric (not hybrid) vehicles for GM - a whole other question than your false comparison of apples to pears.



;)
 
#77 ·
Personally, I am not a fan of using the look and much of the original concepts from other car companies that are not affiliated with GM on GM vehicles to make my point. It shows laziness and it tells others that there aren't any other ways of doing the same things. there are many different ways of "skinning a cat" so to speak. In fact I would be willing to speculate that not only could you have devised other ways to add to the look of your concept but, I would be willing to say that in the manufacturing process you just might be able to streamline the manufacturing to the point of saving money in the process. I figure you are not involved in the auto manufacturing business and I figure you are not a mechanical or electrical engineer. I would be surprised that since you probably don't fit into either category of job you can look at things from a position of looking at things "out of the box" so therefore you have a fresher approach if you are clever in your perspective on things.
 
#78 ·
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are saying with your comment. Are you perhaps German and English is a second language? Your English is good but you are not structuring it properly to make your point. I don't know if you are calling me lazy or that I have a fresh approach?



;)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top