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(new 4-door)This new Mustang V This new Camaro

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#1 · (Edited)
This new Mustang
V
This new Camaro





Op-Ed by MonaroSS
GMI Contributor – 19 April 2012



This week we heard strong suggestion that Ford will be moving away from retro with it’s next new Mustang because it’s sales have been declining, even though retro sold well for them when it first went down that path. However, while I have been in the retro camp myself with Camaro, and evolving from that retro look for the next Camaro, I think I’m now moving into the other camp of making Camaro a new design. A little birdie inside GM Design makes me think that this week also saw some big exciting things happening regarding the new Camaro; so crunch time is imminent for the choice about which direction Camaro will go.

As I said; now seeing what a Mustang below (based off the Ford Evos Concept) can look like, as it leaves retro behind and just incorporates general styling themes from Mustangs history, I think perhaps Camaro should do the same. Retro tends to box you in and limit your design choices when you have to slavishly follow a whole set of themes. But starting with a clean sheet and taking overall new directions, with a little traditional flavour thrown in, may be the way to appeal not only to the current owners but to younger buyers as well.



Click to Enlarge




Below I’ve taken a previous chop I did off the current Camaro that was a 5-place GT and have cut it down and laid it back into a sleeker 2+2 suitable for a new lighter Camaro. I’ve also rendered a frontal view to go with it. I think that some in the retro camp may resist the idea of a new design direction because it’s unknown and it takes time to get used to new designs, especially for classic brand names. So this is my suggestion of one of the many directions a new design for Camaro could take.

Remember that new isn’t the equivalent of bad, it just takes time to come to terms with as you move away from what is comfortable and familiar. And remember that back in the day, when the Gen 2 came out, people after a few months just thought, “that is what a Camaro looks like”. And equally if a clean sheet Gen 6 came out then, after the dust settles, people will also just come to think, “that is what a Camaro looks like”.



Click to Enlarge








EDIT: So let's kick the blasphemy up a notch at the suggestion of SierraGS with the proposition of a 4-door Camaro... Available with a turbo I4 engine...

My inspiration for the front was the general elemental arrangement of the Gen 2 Camaro. The Gen 2 was inspired by Ferrari and Maserati designs of the time and so too I used the same basic split bumper either side of a predominant grille (this time my interpretation of the new Chevy grille) and raised sculpted front fender lines leading to a single headlight each side. In this case I put mine under steeply raked-back glass headlight covers, like many recent Ferrari 2+2 GT's have used, bringing the original inspiration back full circle.

I wanted something that looked like it could be a new Ferrari, but has that more muscular stance of American muscle car to it. Camaro has always been more streamlined and stylish than the more bluff Mustangs, and I wanted that too. To me the current Gen 5 is the most ‘muscle car’ Camaro ever. In some ways that styling should have been a new Chevelle. But for the more traditional sleeker Camaro look I tried to imagine something between a muscle car and the Corvette.



Click to Enlarge





As to engines, if the 130R does not get built, then this could easily take a 300hp Turbo I4 as its base. But with a 130R also in showrooms I would keep it V6 and V8. However I would build it light, say 3,300lb, with the less powerful motors. But for the HiPo motors I would have bolt-on bracing and alloy cradle castings that tie back into the body designed from the get-go to work with the basic lighter frame to add the strength and rigidity needed for the big power and torque motors. That will make the performance models more expensive, but it would allow the lesser models to be much lighter and more nimble, which I think is very important.

This will allow a 3.0 V6, 3.6 V6, and Twin Turbo 3.0 V6, as well as a lower tuned 5.3 V8, to really perform well for less money. The costly HiPo 6.0+ V8’s and Twin Turbo 3.6 engines, with their supercar performance, will be available but a few thousand more expensive than they might be had the car been engineered to take them without additional bracing. But I think that is a better trade-off than all the other Camaro’s having to carry more weight than they need to just to cater for the much lower numbers of the big power supercar models.

In any case I think people, especially younger people, will find a non-retro design perhaps more appealing. It also gives a fresh direction to inspire GM’s designers to think outside the box and dream up future classics….

Lots will disagree, but that’s what forums are for. :D


EDIT: P.S. Some alternate side profiles..










;)
 
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#2 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Way too many engine choices. The 3.6 V6 should remain the base motor with a 400+ HP V8 as the SS and a very limited 500+ HP V8 option. I can only see going to a turbo 4 if the weight drops significantly.
 
#4 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Way too many engine choices. The 3.6 V6 should remain the base motor with a 400+ HP V8 as the SS and a very limited 500+ HP V8 option. I can only see going to a turbo 4 if the weight drops significantly.


I don't know what the engine choices will or should be, but I do agree keep it simple. While speculating, it all sounds good for us to say we would like 4-5 or more engines....but bottom line, the car sells well with 2, maybe 3 engines: a base model engine, a performance engine, and a high ened (such as in the ZL1), limited edition.
 
#3 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Profile mmmm sexy yes.
Front view ....ugh.
 
#6 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

IMO, the second gen looks better. Just make a smaller, lighter, modernized version of the gen 2. Length 182", height 49", width 74". Curb weight: 3200 pounds. Base motor: 300hp turbo 4 "eco" or "no extra charge" 340hp 3.6L V6. Z-28 would get the 450hp 6.2L V8. If everyone else is moving away from retro, perhaps that would be reason to do a modernized gen 2 retro car?
 
#8 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

I like your design brief and LOVE the front end. There's something happening at the cowl that makes the front look like it was tacked on to the rest of the car -- it feels like a Corvette front endbut that doesn't quite jell with the rest of the car. Dash-to-axle ratio?

The roofline and profile are great; I'm not sure about the side window graphic. I know you are partial to it as you've used something similar in other chops, but something about it seems to lack 'tension' to me -- it reminds me of a mid-80s 300ZX 2+2. Something more like the mid-engined Ferraris might be interesting here.

But, overall, I like it. If a Camaro goes with something along those lines, I think a lot of non-car people would be pretty excited to own
 
#42 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

I like your design brief and LOVE the front end...

The roofline and profile are great; I'm not sure about the side window graphic. I know you are partial to it as you've used something similar in other chops, but something about it seems to lack 'tension' to me -- it reminds me of a mid-80s 300ZX 2+2.

But, overall, I like it. If a Camaro goes with something along those lines, I think a lot of non-car people would be pretty excited to own
Great job on the front end! I've always wondered what a modern interpretation of the 70-72 would look like. You've simulated the bumpers and everything. It looks fantastic, IMO, especially with the stripes!

I would like to see it with a thicker C-Post and a little less lengthy window... perhaps shaped a little like your Mustang's side window (that might not be "Camaro enough" for some people, but it would play well with the shape of your grille, I think).
Actually the reason I use that side window profile quite a bit is because it is the 'default' side window profile for a coupe. If you want maximum window space for an airy cabin and good driving sight lines this is the way to get them. Everything else imposes more claustrophobia on the interior and blocks diver's vision, so there needs to be a very good reason to change from that. This design I wanted to keep minimalist and sleek and because so many people have complained about the small window size and poor drivers vision from Camaro this is my antidote to that.... You can’t be all things to all people…


;)
 
#9 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Sorry, don't like that concept as a Camaro at all. The Mustang sillouette has it more correct in my opinion. I know I don't know the correct design terms, but the Camaro should be a "butch-er" looking vehicle than that concept, with a more slab-like front end, and a trunk section - not a pointy hatchback-looking rear. The Camaro should stick with its current hot-rod two door sedan/coupe look. The slinky Ferrari-esque look should be left for the Corvette. Especially as vehicles are needing to get smaller, lighter and yet do more, a more upright vehicle will lend itself to efficient packaging. I do agree that the retro thing should be faded away, but I think in this case the Mustang/EVO is doing it better...
 
#12 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

I pray to GOD they dont got wit the early 70's version and update it....it will not sell as good as the current version, I also you know I love you work, but no feeling the Camaro at all, it really looks like a porshe 928, or coupe Panamera,,,imo
 
#16 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

I love your work but in my opinion the 6th gen just doesn't look enough like a Camaro. It looks too much like a sports car instead of a muscle car. It would make a sweet car under a different name though.
 
#119 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

I'm guessing those who think the headlights are over-done don't like these either...

This is the way of the future and young people and quite a few oldies like them....






;)

Actually, the Z cars have always looked like a hideous fish to me. All I can see is a pleco on the side of the fish tank sucking the algae off.
 
#21 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Heh. Yeah. I hate all of those headlights. Sorry.
So why do you think so many of the world's leading car designers are doing them, and why are so many car companies investing so much money in these designs? I mean these are these brands iconic cars, they want the best designs for them and put their best people on the job.

Are they all stupid about what the market likes? Do they do not do market research about what the majority of people out there want, and what will sell?

It can't be a huge conspiracy of all the ugly headlight people... :D



;)
 
#26 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Compared to some of the other headlight designs posted, I think the Camaro headlight design is conservative. What do you guys want, buckets with round sealed-beam halogens? I think the design very mainstream, unlike most artwork you usually see. More importantly, much more 'buildable' than most concept cars.
 
#29 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

Compared to some of the other headlight designs posted, I think the Camaro headlight design is conservative. What do you guys want, buckets with round sealed-beam halogens? I think the design very mainstream, unlike most artwork you usually see. More importantly, much more 'buildable' than most concept cars.
Thanks. Just as you have early-adopters you have what I call early-rejectors. I am sure than most of them 5 years from now will be happily buying cars with headlights like these after they become more commonplace... This is a normal part of the design process. Lutz used to say if they all like it when you release it, you haven’t pushed the design envelope enough… and your design will usually age quickly


That first Mustang and the Camaro were legit concepts of what they will look like in the future?
The Mustang is a pic of the Ford EVOS Concept, which has been touted as the basis of the next Mustang, and which with the assistance of someone who has seen the next Mustang I re-proportioned the EVOS to look more like what we can expect overall from the next Mustang.

The Camaro is just my example of what a new design Camaro could look like. The real design is being decided upon as we converse inside GM Design.



;)
 
#27 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

That first Mustang and the Camaro were legit concepts of what they will look like in the future?
 
#28 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

It's not that headlights can't be strongly designed and expressive. It's just that some look great, others just OK, and some are simply misshapen. The Ferrari shown is inspired and well integrated with the whole front end, typical for Ferrari design. The FT-86's are at least modern looking and an overall plus, for a car that went to a complete design flop IMO in production form. The rest are simply not great design, including the proposed Camaro headlights, which look cartoonish from the front render. Unlike the current Camaro, which uses its simple round headlights to good effect with how their positioned in the design of the front clip.

And BTW, MonaroSS, not to pick nits but the possessive form of "it" is "its", not "it's" (going back to original thread post).
 
#32 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

It's not that headlights can't be strongly designed and expressive. It's just that some look great, others just OK, and some are simply misshapen. The Ferrari shown is inspired and well integrated with the whole front end, typical for Ferrari design. The FT-86's are at least modern looking and an overall plus, for a car that went to a complete design flop IMO in production form. The rest are simply not great design, including the proposed Camaro headlights, which look cartoonish from the front render. Unlike the current Camaro, which uses its simple round headlights to good effect with how their positioned in the design of the front clip.

And BTW, MonaroSS, not to pick nits but the possessive form of "it" is "its", not "it's" (going back to original thread post).
Most cars at first have a cartoonish look when viewed dead ahead... even these cars you have become used to seeing... if you look at them with new eyes...

"It's" (I hope that's OK - I'm no good at English) all about how the brain works in perception. Once you are accustomed to something it takes on a whole different meaning to the brain. It's like we think nothing of a car being called a 'Ford', but would find it strange if a car brand was our own name...











;)
 
#30 ·
Re: This new Mustang V This new Camaro

For the headlight discussion, I'd like to point out that none of the cars mentioned as "leading style" sell anywhere near as well as the Mustang and Camaro. Nor do I think they ever will. I think the new Impala headlight design is far superior as a rendition of the current Camaro's look. The new small Toyota may end up selling well but I don't think it's a direction the Camaro should go in. I would go for more of a Audi S5 as a style leader.
 
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