How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette? - Page 2

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Poll: How bummed at no stick?

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Thread: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

  1. #16
    News Contributor BlackGTP's Avatar
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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    https://www.corvettemuseum.org/2018-...stats-release/

    22% of 2018's had manuals.

    Though I thoroughly enjoy driving a stick, even if still widely available I probably wouldn't buy one again. It's a novelty of the past, there are better technologies. Nor do I think the change will impact sales. I think the mid-engine will attract a lot of new customers that will offset any loss of existing customers due to not having a stick. Plus, my guess is that a lot of the Corvette stick fans will grumble, but ultimately the allure of the C8 will convince many stick lovers to buy it. And, if you want a stick in a true Corvette competitor, where do you go without spending $150,000+ on a European exotic?

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    People are claiming that a lack of manuals is a response to lack of real consumer interest, but that just isn’t reflected by reality. Porsche has found major success via a return to manuals in some models, and used prices for late model, manual transmission Ferrari models are easily outstripping what DCT equipped cars can manage. Also worth noting, Ford has chimed in now and said that if enough people ask the GT500 will be made available with a manual. Which means people are already asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    And, if you want a stick in a true Corvette competitor, where do you go without spending $150,000+ on a European exotic?
    718 offers a stick
    Last edited by SVT74; 07-20-2019 at 09:59 PM.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 big swede's Avatar
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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    People are claiming that a lack of manuals is a response to lack of real consumer interest, but that just isn’t reflected by reality.
    Of course it is. Porsche is about the only manufacturer to get anywhere close to 10% of its sales as manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini quit producing them all together because it was such a rare order. In fact if they got an order they would call the dealership to make sure it wasn’t a mistake on the order form before producing it.

    Personally I can’t imagine driving either of those without a manual but the market has spoken for sure.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by big swede View Post
    Of course it is. Porsche is about the only manufacturer to get anywhere close to 10% of its sales as manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini quit producing them all together because it was such a rare order. In fact if they got an order they would call the dealership to make sure it wasn’t a mistake on the order form before producing it.

    Personally I can’t imagine driving either of those without a manual but the market has spoken
    You can’t count all of Porsche in this, it’s not realistic. The 911 and 718 hover in the 20-25 percent range for manual transmission take rate. I wouldn’t call one out of every four or five cars made rare. For the record Mustang runs about the same take rate for manual transmissions, and that regardless of engine. If we keep going there is more than enough meat on that bone to justify manuals, but automakers would rather try to wag the dog based upon convenience and cost strategy rather than stoke enthusiasm, even those that should know better.

    It isn’t lost on me that we’re seeing articles about supercar makers struggling to make money and an increase in price deflation on used models from those same companies in recent years. The cars are being made increasingly less special in a push to make ‘special cars’ that please everyone, which by default makes them anything but special. Put simply, that you can find customers doesn’t mean you are finding the customers that you need. The collapse of the compact truck market around a decade ago and the events that led to that should have taught companies something. Apparently, it didn’t.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    I think the difficulty is that when cars are first made and purchased as new, the amount of performance that they have is more important than years down the road when they have been surpassed by newer models, which are, naturally, better. A DCT is flat out better for performance than a manual. In the Camaro and Corvette, the 8 and 10 speed autos were already better performers than their manual counterparts. The combination of performance and convenience is a difficult proposition to pass on particularly if one intends to drive the car every day.

    10 years down the road, none of these cars will be the fastest thing on 4 wheels anymore. Buyers are more likely to be looking for enjoyment than convenience or one or two tenths at the drag strip or around Laguna Seca. That, I think, is the dichotomy that exists here. When talking about performance type vehicles, this is why the manual is typically worth more at resale than the auto, even though the opposite was true when new. I think this is also why manuals work better in a car like a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger than in top flight sports cars. While the performance is certainly there, they tend more towards being GTs than no holds barred sports cars.

    I think it's also important to point out when discussing values of the last manual Ferraris or Lamborghinis that the automated transmissions of that era were generally not that great. Single clutch transmissions like the Ferrari F1 or BMW SMG tend to be jerky and just generally bad at normal driveability. Combine that with the visceral experience of the same car with clutch pedal, and in the case of the Italian cars, a gated manual, there's no comparison for fun factor. The exclusivity of owning a car that is among the last Ferraris with a clutch pedal also has to be important here, too. I believe the BMW SMG is also somewhat unreliable and very expensive to repair, driving down the values of many M3s and a whole generation of M5s (the reliability of the V10 doesn't help either).

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    But this is GMi, let’s focus only on possible negatives

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    There are just over 800 manual trans versions of C7 Corvette left,
    if you want one, you better hurry up because this is your last chance.

    There around 5,000 front engined C7 Corvettes left so again,
    if you want one, you better hurry up because this is your last chance.

    If you want a C8 Corvette, relax as there's plenty of time until all models
    are available. In the meantime, you can go on line and start enjoying
    building your favorite combinations as GM should have pricing finalized
    in the next week or so.
    Last edited by jpd80; 07-21-2019 at 03:25 AM.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    After extended seat time in both variants of the E90 M3 it cemented in stone that driver involvement while nice was easily shaded by the noticeable performance benefits of the DCT. Even with my current daily driver the 8 speed dual clutch transmission is notable for how much it truly brings to the table.

    There is a specific, and quantifiable reason that Ferrari and Lamborghini have moved on from their love affair with the manual transmission.
    I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 White C5 Coupe View Post
    I always wonder how many of those that complain about the lack of a manual-shift transmission would actually buy one if it was made?
    I watched the used car market for the last six months before finally finding a low-mileage, '16 ATS Premium with man trans. Three weeks ago, I flew from Detroit to Chicago then to Memphis, rented a car, and drove to see then bought the car. I drove it 750 miles back home. That's how much I wanted a man trans.
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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by germeezy1 View Post
    After extended seat time in both variants of the E90 M3 it cemented in stone that driver involvement while nice was easily shaded by the noticeable performance benefits of the DCT. Even with my current daily driver the 8 speed dual clutch transmission is notable for how much it truly brings to the table.

    There is a specific, and quantifiable reason that Ferrari and Lamborghini have moved on from their love affair with the manual transmission.
    Yeah my nephews 911 GT2 RS is a dual clutch auto. I think they don't have a manual available in that model.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by SVT74 View Post
    People are claiming that a lack of manuals is a response to lack of real consumer interest, but that just isn’t reflected by reality. Porsche has found major success via a return to manuals in some models, and used prices for late model, manual transmission Ferrari models are easily outstripping what DCT equipped cars can manage. Also worth noting, Ford has chimed in now and said that if enough people ask the GT500 will be made available with a manual. Which means people are already asking.
    Amen brother. Porsche is sticking with manuals (and NA engines like C8 thank goodness):

    https://www.motor1.com/news/359146/p...lly-aspirated/

    Quote Originally Posted by big swede View Post
    Of course it is. Porsche is about the only manufacturer to get anywhere close to 10% of its sales as manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini quit producing them all together because it was such a rare order. In fact if they got an order they would call the dealership to make sure it wasn’t a mistake on the order form before producing it.

    Personally I can’t imagine driving either of those without a manual but the market has spoken for sure.
    A used stick-shift 430 is worth 30-50% more than automatic! And there’s a guy in Texas doing conversions for big $$ creating what R&T calls “the world’s greatest Ferrari”:

    https://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...errari-292919/


    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    I watched the used car market for the last six months before finally finding a low-mileage, '16 ATS Premium with man trans. Three weeks ago, I flew from Detroit to Chicago then to Memphis, rented a car, and drove to see then bought the car. I drove it 750 miles back home. That's how much I wanted a man trans.
    Very cool, I’ve been thinking of doing the same thing (instead of new CT4 which I assume will not offer manual sorry Caddy)! How’s it feel? How many miles on the car? Thanks for any info.
    Current ride: 2015 Chevy Sonic 1.8L 5sp manual sedan
    Previous ride: 1998 Subaru Legacy Wagon AWD 2.2L 5sp manual
    Next ride: Maybe a 2020 2.0T CT4, weekend car, keep the Sonic as DD

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    That's just sad. If this trend continues, soon there'll be only basic crappy euro-asian econoboxes available with manual. In my opinion they are most of all those vehicles that should come with an automatic transmission as they are basic transportation devices and are used in the cities. My Corvette had a stick and if I bought C8 as a weekend toy, I would want one with a manual without a doubt. The argument about 'fast shifting' is hilarious. Manual tranny is not about fast shifting anymore but about joy to drive. I would sacrifice power output just to have a manual in the C8 and I would pay extra for it. Too bad previous gen. Ford GTs are so damn expensive
    Last edited by Scrambler; 07-21-2019 at 07:48 AM.
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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    It's only a "performance boost" at full song. Anything less and rowing your own is so much more enjoyable. Except in stop and go traffic. Then it's a downer.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Since Ferrari quit making true manual transmission the value of those cars has exploded. And it’s not just old men. Rich people in their 30s and 40s are driving auction prices through the roof on even more mundane 90s era Ferrari’s.

    You have to understand, for people who enjoy driving stick, the 0-60 and lightning speed of changing gears is NOT the goal.

    It’s the enjoyment of driving.

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    Re: How much of a bummer is no manual trans in 2020 Corvette?

    Quote Originally Posted by fastbal1 View Post
    Since Ferrari quit making true manual transmission the value of those cars has exploded. And it’s not just old men. Rich people in their 30s and 40s are driving auction prices through the roof on even more mundane 90s era Ferrari’s.

    You have to understand, for people who enjoy driving stick, the 0-60 and lightning speed of changing gears is NOT the goal.

    It’s the enjoyment of driving.
    Exactly right!
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