GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting - Page 3

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Thread: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by D C View Post
    The leader in exterior lighting? Might as well strive to be the leader in glove box interior finish. It's equally important to 99.9% of buyers.

    I would bet that the majority of people that have HID lamps in their car have NO clue that they have them.
    That might be the case with most buyers, but a lot of times it goes towards the external aesthetic of the car. It's more modern and pleasing to the eye. It's a design ethic.

    As for glove box interior finish, you should take a look at the cheesy glove boxes that GM cars come with. Compare them to the better ones from Europe, where often times, the glove box is chilled or refrigerated, has nice felt covered shelving, and actually has illumination.

    GM can do a lot of things to improve its cars.


    It's amusing when the stories of the Old GM leak out. There was the story that Opel/GM Europe believed they made better cars than the NA divisions, and believed that their cars should be taken on as GM's global vehicles, not the NA divisions. There was a lot of in-fighting regarding that. Ultimately, GM Europe does have the better detailed and put together car because of the smarter details and the technology that is/seems more current. And the platforms are better equipped (ie Euro Epsilon vs NA Epsilon).


    To simply say "It's ok to have halogen lights and plastic glove boxes" is displaying a case of tunnel vision.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    This comment is NOT about a specific vehicle. I am only relaying my agreement with the author's point.

    However, I cannot believe how obstinate some people are. What is it about higher-tech lighting that offends people? Is it b/c HID debuted on BMWs and other high-end lux cars?

    Having "upscale" headlights is a way of making your product look upscale (ignoring the FACT that HID lights, for example, are superior in performance and longevity vs. halogens).

    Some upper-level cars have more chrome, nicer wheels, strategically-placed signal light repeaters, nicer-looking OnStar/XM antennae, etc.

    It really is not an unreasonable concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckMan View Post
    First off, saying that Buick is a "luxury" brand is a little bit of a stretch - it's more like a "premium" brand. And as many people have already posted, it's a cost thing. There are no real pros to HIDs besides styling. Halogen lights can do all those things you claim the HIDs are better at, and they do it at 1/10th the cost. My halogen high beams are much brighter than low-beam HIDs, so there's no reason halogen low beams can't be equally as bright.

    I definitely agree HIDs ought to be offered, I just don't think they MUST be standard on lower priced vehicles, especially at Buick. Once you cross a certain price point though (maybe $40k), the additional cost of HIDs is irrelavent.
    I have yet to see any halogen headlights have a bright low beam then the low beam for Xenon's. I have yet to see halogens have a bright high beam like Xenon's. I have yet to see halogens illuminate the side of the roads as Xenon's do. I have yet to see halogens to illuminate the road at twilight as well as Xenon's do. Xenon's also last a whole lot longer then halogens. When the left Xenon on my dads old E46 went out at 60,000 miles, when taken to the dealer for replacement, they stated that they have tons of halogens because they burn out all the time. Where for the Xenon's are so reliable, they have to order them when people come in for replacement for them. The right Xenon didn't go out until 70,000 miles. Unlike halogens, Xenon's give you warning signs that they are about to go out. Sorry cost is the only negative to Xenons, but cost will go down when the economy of scale goes up when they are more prevalent in vehicles from Malibu's to XTS's. GM can also include the Xenon's in the bumper to bumper warranty. So you have 4 years and 50,000 miles where you would be covered in replacement Xenon's in Cadillac's and Buick's case.

    How is Buick not a luxury marque? Their vehicles go against Lincoln, Lexus, and Acura and would you say those are luxury brands?

    Quote Originally Posted by poncho1982 View Post
    Exactly.

    HID's are HOT. As in heat.

    LEDs are the way to go, adopt them company wide, then you are leading. Instead of using the 20 year old HID tech.
    LED's get hot too in the back of the unit. That poses a challenge in designing the headlight housing because the heat could melt the plastic.

    LED headlights are not going to become standard for a while. Make them optional on the XTS and next generation CTS to bring costs down. And then expand from there. But, for the mean time make Xenon's standard and expand them as optional equipment to Chevy and GMC.
    Last edited by ChevyRules; 05-13-2010 at 01:55 PM.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by ChevyRules View Post
    I don't understand this mentality.

    " Buyers don't know and/or care about such and such, so why should GM do anything?"

    or the, " the competition offers halogens as standard, so it is ok for GM to offer halogens as standard on Buick's and Cadillac's".

    Why do you not want to see GM take charge and change the market? Become the first company to make Xenon's offered in every brand and standard on Buick's and Cadillac's? Why are you ok with GM just following what the competition does? It is one thing to keep up with them, it is another to take the lead. Things like Xenons standard, LED as optional will help them lead again. I think everyone here loves the Camaro's Halo Xenon's on the RS package. Why not expand that to the Malibu, Impala, Cruze, Aveo, etc by offering them as options? A lot of people like the blue ring and eyebrow on the Regal's Xenon's. Why not expand it? That is the problem with GM. They have been inconsistent with spreading what should become brand signature items to their other models.
    Why do you want to see extra cost in a vehicle where it is unwarranted. If you want to pay for those items, you're looking at a higher priced vehicles. As some have suggested above, it isn't the cost upfront so much as it is the replacement cost. I have a friend that works on all makes of cars. He tells me stories of the cost of the HIDs versus halogens. The HIDs cost on average $300-$400 per bulb. You can't make that cost up in longevity of the bulb life over a halogen during the normal ownership of a vehicle. Why would I want to pay $300-$400 to replace a bulb when I can replace it with a $20 halogen? If you can afford to burn that amount of cash, great. You live a good life. Therefore, buy a Cadillac. Those buying Chevy's, GMCs, and probably Buicks don't have that much cash lying around for a routine maintenance item. Pretty soon, you guys will have every car costing $50k+ just so you can say, "Look at me. I'm so trendy!!".

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by chade View Post
    Why do you want to see extra cost in a vehicle where it is unwarranted. If you want to pay for those items, you're looking at a higher priced vehicles. As some have suggested above, it isn't the cost upfront so much as it is the replacement cost. I have a friend that works on all makes of cars. He tells me stories of the cost of the HIDs versus halogens. The HIDs cost on average $300-$400 per bulb. You can't make that cost up in longevity of the bulb life over a halogen during the normal ownership of a vehicle. Why would I want to pay $300-$400 to replace a bulb when I can replace it with a $20 halogen? If you can afford to burn that amount of cash, great. You live a good life. Therefore, buy a Cadillac. Those buying Chevy's, GMCs, and probably Buicks don't have that much cash lying around for a routine maintenance item. Pretty soon, you guys will have every car costing $50k+ just so you can say, "Look at me. I'm so trendy!!".
    Didn't say make them standard on Chevy and GMC's, just to make them optional. They should be standard on Buick's and Cadillac's because they are luxury vehicles. If people can't afford the maintenance of a luxury car, they shouldn't buy one. Buick is changing and going more upscale and more luxurious. The LaCrosse is proof enough Buick can hang with Lexus. Considering the average transaction price is in the mid to high $30,000's.

    I have very little sympathy for people who go in and buy vehicles like new Buick's and Cadillac's, BMW's, etc and then complain how much it costs just to maintain them. You bought a luxury vehicle, you should have known what you were getting into to. For those who can afford the replacement bulbs, they can order Xenon's on the Chevy and GMC's. The cost of the bulbs will go down once they get further expanded into each model. Halogens need to die. I don't expect them to die anytime soon, but they should start to be phased out and need to be gone from luxury vehicles.
    Last edited by ChevyRules; 05-13-2010 at 02:27 PM.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by chade View Post
    Why do you want to see extra cost in a vehicle where it is unwarranted. If you want to pay for those items, you're looking at a higher priced vehicles. As some have suggested above, it isn't the cost upfront so much as it is the replacement cost. I have a friend that works on all makes of cars. He tells me stories of the cost of the HIDs versus halogens. The HIDs cost on average $300-$400 per bulb. You can't make that cost up in longevity of the bulb life over a halogen during the normal ownership of a vehicle. Why would I want to pay $300-$400 to replace a bulb when I can replace it with a $20 halogen? If you can afford to burn that amount of cash, great. You live a good life. Therefore, buy a Cadillac. Those buying Chevy's, GMCs, and probably Buicks don't have that much cash lying around for a routine maintenance item. Pretty soon, you guys will have every car costing $50k+ just so you can say, "Look at me. I'm so trendy!!".
    HIDs are not even close to the prices you quote. You can find H11 HID bulbs for under $20 at most online auto parts retailers. I've upgraded all of my cars to HIDs for under $50 a set, and thats WITH a lifetime warranty on bulbs and ballasts. PM me if you want more info, because I probably can't post the site without violating some GMI rule.

    I think that, with a little research, you'll find your argument is without merit.
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    I agree with this, and lighting is my main sticking point with GM. Now, the Spark and Aveo... NO, they don't need HID lighting. BUT, they DO need projectors.

    I switched from Silverstar Ultra halogen bulbs in my 94 Bonneville to basic halogens shining through projectors in my Astra. THAT difference was dramatic!!! Then, I bought Silverstars for the Astra, and WOW!!! I was next to a new M3 yesterday night, both of us behind white cars at a stoplight. The Ultras aren't quite as bright, but they are nothing to laugh at.

    Not only do projectors look much more up-to-date, but they provide more focused light, and they can be brought up to near-HID luminosity for less than $60.

    Projectors HAVE to be standard, with better bulbs in more expensive vehicles. HID lights, I agree should be standard in cars that price out around $40k and above. LED lighting does need to be leveraged in the designs of higher end vehicles, and FOG LAMPS SHOULD BE OPTIONAL ON ALL VEHICLES AND STANDARD ON ANYTHING WITH A BASE PRICE OF $20k or higher.

    I mean... just look at the Taurus, the Sonata and the just-debuted Elantra
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Excellent thought and my guess is easy to implement - especially in the cars where xenon is already an option.

    The high end headlights really do give a car a techy high end look - they make an impact that GM needs.
    EXCELLENCE FOR EVERYONE isn't that GM's new slogan?

    There is no excuse for all manufacturers not making headlights that score "excellent" at CR or CD or whoever tests their products.

    Style continues to trump substance.

    My Kia Spectra has incredible headlights. It's the first car I haven't put Silverstar Ultras in since Silverstars hit the market. If we lived deep in the country I might consider the change, but so far not needed.

    Too bad the majority of 30+ grand cars' headlamps can't equal a "junk car" like so many think Kias are.
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    GM needs to take the lead in
    - Quality
    - Long term reliability
    - Fuel economy / alternative fuels
    - Powertrains
    - Technology

    For me, headlights come it at about number 73 on my wish list.
    Last edited by goatgary; 05-13-2010 at 03:43 PM.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by goatgary View Post
    GM needs to take the lead in
    - Quality
    - Long term reliability
    - Fuel economy
    - Powertrains
    - Technology

    For me, headlights come it at about number 73 on my wish list.
    Headlights are technology.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    ^^ Headlights go under technology and quality IMO.

    There is absolutely no excuse for building a vehicle with poor headlights, given the products commonly available today.
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Gotta say, above all else I'm just tired of hearing everyone whining about lighting.

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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    For Chevy/GMC and Buick, I don't think HIDs need to be standard, but projectors do, at least for high beams. A halogen projector can be nearly as bright as an HID projector at a significantly reduced cost. I had read that a halogen projector doesn't cost much more than a reflective one.
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post

    Vertical light pipes help enhance the front of the car. Supposedly there is room in the SRX lamp cluster for them but have been left out.
    Tail light light pipes are standard on every level of the SRX and CTS.

    Performance and Premium edition CTS and SRX also get light pipes in the headlights.

    On Luxury and Standard collection, you get two LED side markers and LED front markers in the headlight unit.
    Last edited by coaster.n3rd; 05-13-2010 at 04:04 PM.
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    Re: GM Should Lead In Exterior Lighting

    GM needs to change the attitude of its dealer sales men. My parents sat down with a salesman to option out an Equinox. They expressed their disappointment with the lack of a HID option. The salesman proceeded to tell them that HIDs were pointless and how much he didn't like them.

    Cadillac really needs to have HIDs standard. I work at a Nissan/Infiniti dealer and I've yet to see a Infiniti without keyless entry and HIDs. As much as I love Cadillac, Infiniti has a many more standard tech. features.

    Edit: Also, my dad's EIGTH YEAR OLD Passat had projectors standard. There is NO reason why eight years later, someone should have to drop $40k CAD on an Equinox (LTZ) just to get projectors. For that price it really needs HIDs. GM is just lucky my parents are looking at the LTZ, because after eight years of owning a car with projector lights, they sure as hell are not going back to reflector lights.
    Last edited by Variant; 05-13-2010 at 05:06 PM.

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