Toyota's engine overhaul

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Thread: Toyota's engine overhaul

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    2.8 Liter Turbocharged V6 Quest's Avatar
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    Toyota's engine overhaul

    Report: Toyota to Introduce Direct-Injection in 2013, Turbos and Engine Downsizing to Follow
    New Turbo 2.0L I-4 and CVT Coming to Toyota Lineup in 2014
    Written by: Donny Nordlicht October 1 2012
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    According to Automotive News, Toyota will introduce a slew of revised engines and new transmissions over the next two years in order to catch up with its competition. Toyota has quickly become one of the few automakers not to take advantage of the efficiency gains of variable valve timing, direct injection, and turbocharging.
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    Toyota is hoping to begin rolling out two new engines and two new transmissions starting next year. AN reports the first of which will be a new 2.5-liter Atkinson-cycle I-4 with direct injection, slated to find its way into the brand’s hybrids. Coming in 2014 will be a 2.0-liter turbo-four, along with a new continuously variable transmission for small-to-midsize cars and six- or eight-speed transmissions for larger vehicles.
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    According to our source close to the matter, Toyota originally planned on introducing a direct-injection V-6 in the 2013 Avalon, but delayed that to 2015 due to cost. Adding direct injection to current engines can tack on an extra $128 to the car’s bottom line, says AN. It was because of this added cost and an incremental increase in fuel economythat Toyota Motor North America previously passed on direct injection.
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    Motortrend
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    Toyota's engine overhaul
    Hybrid leader trails in turbos, fuel injection
    By Hans Greimel


    "By 2015, through improvement in the engine and powertrain alone, we aim to achieve a fuel-efficiency improvement of 10 percent to 20 percent on the models adopting the improvements," Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota's outgoing product development chief, said.

    Insiders say President Akio Toyoda, who wanted to make his company's cars zippier to drive without sacrificing fuel economy, urged his staff to embrace nonhybrid technologies.
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    Moreover, Toyota plans to combine direct injection with its hybrid system to deliver a new generation of hybrids that are all the more miserly with fuel.
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    Key elements of Toyota's plan:

    • A 2.5-liter direct-injection, Atkinson cycle engine, to be deployed first in hybrids in 2013.
    • A 2.0-liter downsized turbo-charged engine in 2014.
    • A shift to CVTs in small- to mid-sized vehicles.
    • More six- and eight-speed automatic transmissions for larger cars.
    .
    From 2013
    Starting next year, Toyota will answer by piggybacking its D-4S direct-injection technology onto its AR family of four-cylinder gasoline engines. Toyota's AR engines are used in such models as the Toyota Camry, RAV4, Highlander and Venza and the Lexus RX. The injectors are supplied by Denso Corp.
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    A direct-injection, 2.5-liter AR four-banger initially will go into the hybrid version of the Toyota Crown, a Japan-market sedan. Future deployments could go in the Camry or other AR cars.
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    In 2014, Toyota will introduce a downsized 2.0-liter, four-cylinder turbocharged AR engine based on the 2.5-liter powerplant. Toyota declined to identify the model or the turbocharger supplier.
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    Pairing direct injection with Toyota's hybrid technology can boost the system's overall fuel efficiency by 10 percent, said Satoshi Ogiso, chief engineer for the Prius family of hybrids.
    .
    Toyota will use a newly refined version of the Denso-made D-4S injector. It was first used this year in the Lexus GS and the Scion FR-S sporty car manufactured by Subaru-builder Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.
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    It improves mileage about 1 percent over Toyota's earlier D-4S injector, which debuted in 2006. It gets better results by using a slit-shaped, instead of a multihole, injector opening. That creates a richer fuel mixture inside the cylinder.
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    It never sinked in that they were so far behind in tech. However, their fuel economy seems to be competitive as is....

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    I predicted that this was going to happen sooner rather than later. If my memory serves me right Toyota made engine revisions within the 2nd year after the Camry refreshes of the last two generations. The current mills are adequate from both a power and fuel economy standpoint the only thing the 2AZ and the 2GR-FE series of engines were lacking though was DI.
    Last edited by CrunkedRL; 10-02-2012 at 12:00 PM.

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    I assumed Toyota was intentionally keeping direct injection out of its V6s in order to make a bigger separation between Toyota and Lexus. I think most Lexus products with the V6 use direct injection.

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    It never sinked in that they were so far behind in tech. However, their fuel economy seems to be competitive as is....
    That is how they make so much money. Its that they are perceived to be technologically advanced. They really know how to beat the drum on this, making a big deal out of something thats no big deal. Then, they really cut corners in the areas that you cannot see or touch.
    85 cars since 1975....
    Good night and good luck.

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by jry View Post
    That is how they make so much money. Its that they are perceived to be technologically advanced. They really know how to beat the drum on this, making a big deal out of something thats no big deal. Then, they really cut corners in the areas that you cannot see or touch.
    Is it that or that Toyota was able to design and deliver technology to acheave fuel economy and power adequate to satisfy their buyers' desires without those additions ... until now?

    Could this action possibly allow Toyota to move ahead of competition where it matters to their customer base?
    Last edited by 44 mpg by 2010; 10-03-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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    44 mpg by 2010 ... 2013?

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Toyota can, and has been very innovative when it comes to engine design. The US market has prompted them to become complacent, and this complacency lead to mediocrity as well as stagnation. I will admit that I am quite surprised that the D4-S 2GR-FSE transverse placement V6 has not already replaced the excellent but now not notable for power output 2GR-FE.
    I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    The 2gr-fse was hella expensive IIRC, and the new d4-s system is cheaper I think then the d4-s used in the IS and GS.

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Sounds like they ( possibly ) changed something on the injectors...... or maybe not but rather, something or really some things got kinda' lost in translation.

    Or maybe it is somewhat vaguely written.

    Gets down to which injector is being compared to which injector.

    Anyway for clarity...... production D-4S systems have used a dual slit injector since 2006.

    Before that, some D-4 or D-4S ( cannot remember which but think it is the D-4s ) were associated with a single slit type.

    And of course, the original D-4s did not use a slit type injector tip / fan spray pattern.

    Both slit type injectors are often referred to as a 'fan' type or having a fan pattern with the dual fan / dual slit having a vertical spray orientation ie both fans vertically located relative to the piston crown - side by side in a sense.




    So the question is .... are they referring to the standard injection systems being replaced, or some kind of difference relative to the D-4S systems already in use on certain V6s and V8s.


    It is ambiguous - just like the one section concerning vvt - where Toyota has not been a laggard.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 10-04-2012 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Corrected spray orientation error and added visual aid .
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    There are rumors going around on some of the Toyota boards, some of which haven't been denied by plant workers who post there, that the 2014 Corolla will have a CVT and a 2.0liter turbo variant.

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Sounds like they ( possibly ) changed something on the injectors...... or maybe not but rather, something or really some things got kinda' lost in translation.

    Or maybe it is somewhat vaguely written.

    Gets down to which injector is being compared to which injector.

    Anyway for clarity...... production D-4S systems have used a dual slit injector since 2006.

    Before that, some D-4 or D-4S ( cannot remember which but think it is the D-4s ) were associated with a single slit type.

    And of course, the original D-4s did not use a slot type injector tip / fan spray pattern.

    Both slot type injectors are often referred to as 'fan' type or having a fan pattern with the dual fan / dual slit having a vertical spray orientation ie one fan above the other relative to the piston crown.


    So the question is .... are they referring to the standard injection systems being replaced, or some kind of difference relative to the D-4S systems already in use on certain V6s and V8s.


    It is ambiguous - just like the one section concerning vvt - where Toyota has not been a laggard.
    If Toyota is consistent with their direct injection systems than this new D4-S system should be a system not utterly divergent from the port AND direct injection D4-S system utlized on the BRZ and FR-S. Toyota's standard direct injection ONLY system is typically branded as D4 as I know that you already understand. They have had the technology for some time , and it is rumored to be very fuel quality dependent. I wish that our USDM fuel quality allowed the efficiency gains from lean burn as direct injection was originally intended to provide.
    I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Well..... on the nomenclature..... all the serious corporate stuff sourced from Japan as well as the SAE papers use...... "D-4" and "D-4S". ( Occassionally somebody somewhere adds a space ie "D_-4S" or better printed "D -4S".

    Anything with a "D" and "-4" references a system that employs one direct injector per cylinder irregardless of all the rest.

    Remember this is what the 4-D is supposed to refer to -

    Direct gasoline injection

    Dynamic mixture formation

    Decisive combustion control

    Delightful performance

    There is btw, also an older "D-4D" for diesels with a split direct injection schedule of sorts.


    There was or are some 'Toyota' reference ( outside of Japan ) in a single engine descriptive label that uses "D4" in that label.

    I would imagine that is an error of some sort - regardless of how or where sourced - perhaps deliberate to make something fit somewhere.

    I've never seen a major Japan sourced / Toyota sourced reference to "D-4S" as anything but exactly that.

    "D4 -S" or similar is incorrect - technically.


    The internet of course, is a completely different story.


    As usual, once an error is made it propagates .....
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 10-04-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    America123 I was more speaking of Toyota typically identifying it's dual port AND direct injection system as D4-S, and it's solely direct injection system as D-4.
    I want a car so violent that the mere thought of full throttle would cause a heart attack. That actually going wide open throttle in would result in nothing less than instant death!
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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    Yes, I got that, germeezy1.

    I'm sayin' that no, they refer to it formally at any rate, as "D-4S" and not as D4-S.


    On this one to the best of my very imperfect knowledge ( and I did 'recheck' ) they have been very consistent.

    Again, I am referencing SAE papers and also formal Corporate Japanese 'presentations' and separately documents such as but not limited to - formal environmental report cards.


    It's a minor point - but one that might matter - later.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 10-04-2012 at 11:58 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Toyota's engine overhaul

    My understanding that D4-S is being revised, since the original 2gr-fse implementation.

    Toyota will use a newly refined version of the Denso-made D-4S injector. It was 1st used this year in the Lexus GS and the Scion FR-S sporty car manufactured by Subaru-builder Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.

    It improves mileage about 1% over Toyota's earlier D-4S injector, which debuted in 2006. It gets better results by using a slit-shaped, instead of a multihole, injector opening. That creates a richer fuel mixture inside the cylinder.
    D4 is, hopefully dead. Nobody like receiving this in the mail:

    IMG_0340edit.jpg

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