Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

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Thread: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

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    Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Over the years, Detroit has been the home of popular roadside signs tallying annual auto production minute by minute.

    Now, Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. has its own billboard tally going: The gallons of gasoline saved by Americans driving Toyota's gas-electric hybrid vehicles.

    Toyota's newly erected billboard on Interstate 405 in Southern California will hit 100 million gallons sometime Monday.

    Ernest Bastien, vice president of the company's vehicle operations group, said the idea came from an ad agency working with Toyota.

    The fuel savings is an estimate, based on all Toyota hybrids sold since the Prius debuted in the United States in 2000, spokeswoman Nancy Hubbell said.

    The billboard is updated constantly to account for new sales as well as the average daily miles traveled per vehicle and a calculation of the fuel saved over a conventional vehicle.

    Why is the billboard in California? Toyota sells one out of every three Priuses there, and the state has the most hybrid vehicles on its roads.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs...511270328/1148


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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Looks like Toyota paid someone to write a story.

    Interesting... I read an article the other day that some auot analyst wrote saying that he expects a backlash against Japanese hybrids because they are not getting much better gas mileage than their gasoline counterparts.

    If we're going to focus on saving gas, let me post some facts about GM....

    *Starting in the 2005 model year GM is saving around 28 million gallons of fuel. How? By changing to electric cooling fans, regulating voltage control, aerodynamics, and axle changes in GMT-800 trucks. Funny, I don't remember ever reading an article about that

    *GM has 17 segment-leading vehicles in terms of fuel economy. Toyota has 5.

    *GM's hybrid buses save more fuel a year than all of Toyota's hybrids combined. Along with 90% LOWER emissions.
    Last edited by nsap; 11-27-2005 at 03:12 PM.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap
    Looks like Toyota paid someone to write a story.

    Interesting... I read an article the other day that some auot analyst wrote saying that he expects a backlash against Japanese hybrids because they are not getting much better gas mileage than their gasoline counterparts.

    If we're going to focus on saving gas, let me post some facts about GM....

    *Starting in the 2005 model year GM is saving around 28 million gallons of fuel. How? By changing to electric cooling fans, regulating voltage control, aerodynamics, and axle changes in GMT-800 trucks. Funny, I don't remember ever reading an article about that

    *GM has 17 segment-leading vehicles in terms of fuel economy. Toyota has 5.

    *GM's hybrid buses save more fuel a year than all of Toyota's hybrids combined. Along with 90% LOWER emissions.
    Dont you remember the EPA study where GM was third overall, honda first and toyota second? Also id like to know which 17 vehicles get best in class.

    Hybrid priuses do get much better milage then their gas counterparts, but the accord, highlander, and the lexuses are scams, because they use hybrid technology as a gimick to increase performance. The prius was designed to be aerodynamic and fuel efficient, not have 260 HP.

    GM hybrid buses, sadly, arent in the consumers faces, so they wont notice a thing. You know what consumers would notice though? the new escalade and all the other GMT900s rolling over cliffs in the commercials tht come on right after those of the prius in the middle of the consumers' favorite TV shows.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    All I can say is.... brilliant! That is all that can be said.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by DuSpinnst
    Notice where the Billboard is.

    The Problem with Hybrid people is the same as Hydrogen people. They think it's the solution to the world's problems. What no one realizes is the following things

    1. Hybrids are only one of a 3 prong (4 if Hydrogen gets it's act together) approach to lowering fuel consumption and using alternative sources.

    2. High milage Gas Engines (35 MPG+) are NOTHING to sneeze at and in fact should garner as much press as Hybrid's do.

    3. Some people JUST don't like Hybrids, or any other type of alternate fuel vehicle. WHY, because they tinker with their car. How many performance parts are available for the Hybrids? NONE....

    4. This is a pure marketing ploy by Toyota, they don't care about fuel saved, THEY WANT YOU TO THINK THEY DO. Toyota cares about one thing, making more money for Toyota.

    then why the hell did they develop the prius in the first place? wasnt the prius introduced in an era where 10mpg suburbans roamed free and GM was cashing in on the SUV craze? Where at the stop light the guy in his H2 looks down on the little quirky car beside him and laughs?

    Toyota is smart, no matter how much you hate them, you have to give credit where its due. they planned ahead. With the SUV, GM was the one looking for profits, and while it was, toyota continued to steal more of the car market, and now, GM is rushing to redesign its dated cars, the malibu, impala, cavalier, in hopes of regaining some of that share. why? because the suv is dying, and unfortunately toyota was the one who saw it coming and not Gm. Now if you want to buy a compact, you get the corolla, a midsize, you get the camry, a minivan, you get the sienna, a fullsize SUV, you go look at GM, and as sales are proving, no one is doing that lately.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
    Dont you remember the EPA study where GM was third overall, honda first and toyota second? Also id like to know which 17 vehicles get best in class.
    Saab 9-3
    Saab 9-5
    Pontiac GTO (highway milage)
    Cadillac Escalade
    GMC Sierra
    Chevrolet Silverado
    Saturn Vue
    Buick Rainier
    Chevrolet Tahoe
    Pontiac G6
    GMC Yukon
    Chevrolet Malibu
    Chevrolet Express
    GMC Savanna
    Chevrolet Corvette ZO6
    Chevrolet Malibu Maxx

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
    Hybrid priuses do get much better milage then their gas counterparts, but the accord, highlander, and the lexuses are scams, because they use hybrid technology as a gimick to increase performance. The prius was designed to be aerodynamic and fuel efficient, not have 260 HP.
    Whoo! One out what 5 hybrids get good gas mileage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
    GM hybrid buses, sadly, arent in the consumers faces, so they wont notice a thing. You know what consumers would notice though? the new escalade and all the other GMT900s rolling over cliffs in the commercials tht come on right after those of the prius in the middle of the consumers' favorite TV shows.
    The main focus of the article (and billboard) was to show how much gas is being saved by hybrids. The buses save more.

    You're right, consumers will notice the GMT-900's, along with their best in class fuel economy, and soon to come dual-mode hybrid variants that will achieve somwhere around 25 MPG combined driving.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by DuSpinnst
    They didn't plan ahead. They looked at the home market and saw that the Hybrid would be well received by Japan's High Tech Oriented Society.

    You really need to broaden your horizons to realize that what many companies do is neither smart nor forward thinking. A product is designed because they know it will sell. It just so happened that after they had the design done that they released it here and when gas shot up they started selling like Hot Cakes.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the Prius has been out what 8 years? And now all of a sudden has the demand gotten to the point of insanity. If it was SO SMART they would have sold like this from day one.
    You make a valid point. Toyota has executed hybrids like GM did all products in the 1990's. They hurried them to market just to make a sale. They didn't wait until they could sell them cheaper or until they actually got the gas mileage they are perceived to get.

    People slam GM for not having hybrids, but they are actually taking the time to execute them right (I know, a surprise eh?). The dual-mode system and the BAS system are both making their debut next year, with a much smaller premium added to the sticker than Japanese counterparts.

    The dual-mode system is already proven to get the gas mileage they are intended to, since that is the same system on the buses.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
    then why the hell did they develop the prius in the first place? wasnt the prius introduced in an era where 10mpg suburbans roamed free and GM was cashing in on the SUV craze? Where at the stop light the guy in his H2 looks down on the little quirky car beside him and laughs?
    iirc, it was the Japanese government that forced their domestic makers to develop alternative fueled vehicles like hybrids like California and the zero emissions electric vehicle program. Toyota and Honda took off running with the hybrids in the mid-late 90's. Japan has basically no natural resources, so their government has a bunch of regulations to keep consumption low, ie tax on engine displacement (Europe does this too), hence the popularity of the 660cc Kei class cars. I'm not 100% sure but engines over 2000cc get the luxury car tax in Japan and Europe. That's why European and Japanese makers favor DOHC for the power/displacement ratio even if the cams take up more engine bay space. That's also the reason why they get the "hi-tech" aura, since a lot of R&D was spent to extract the most power out of a set displacement when it would have been cheaper to just make the engine larger.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap
    Saab 9-3
    Saab 9-5
    Pontiac GTO (highway milage)
    Cadillac Escalade
    GMC Sierra
    Chevrolet Silverado
    Saturn Vue
    Buick Rainier
    Chevrolet Tahoe
    Pontiac G6
    GMC Yukon
    Chevrolet Malibu
    Chevrolet Express
    GMC Savanna
    Chevrolet Corvette ZO6
    Chevrolet Malibu Maxx



    Whoo! One out what 5 hybrids get good gas mileage!



    The main focus of the article (and billboard) was to show how much gas is being saved by hybrids. The buses save more.

    You're right, consumers will notice the GMT-900's, along with their best in class fuel economy, and soon to come dual-mode hybrid variants that will achieve somwhere around 25 MPG combined driving.
    Quite a few of the names you listed are variants of one model. Yukon/Tahoe, Malibu/Maxx??? Also, GM has 8 brands vs. 3 for Toyota, so wouldn't that translate into more models that get "good" (by GM's standards) MPG??

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by DuSpinnst
    They didn't plan ahead. They looked at the home market and saw that the Hybrid would be well received by Japan's High Tech Oriented Society.

    You really need to broaden your horizons to realize that what many companies do is neither smart nor forward thinking. A product is designed because they know it will sell. It just so happened that after they had the design done that they released it here and when gas shot up they started selling like Hot Cakes.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the Prius has been out what 8 years? And now all of a sudden has the demand gotten to the point of insanity. If it was SO SMART they would have sold like this from day one.

    I am sure that if you ran a company it would be bankrupt in a week. You have to make MONEY before you can go out on a limb and take a chance. GM does not have the capacity to make money solely based on the amount of **************** it has to pay the UAW retirees.

    You want my honest opinion, if GM was rid of its legacy costs and could put every dime into research and development they would eclipse Toyota in 18 months, the same is true of Ford.

    Don't worry though, in 15 years Toyota will start to feel the pain of legacy costs and the Chinese cars will be nipping at them. I hope they become #1, because that just means they will be the next to fall.
    wow. lets see, GM focused on short term profits (SUVs) neglected other segments, and now they're screwed. They have trouble with the UAW because their cars dont sell, they dont make any money, and they cant afford to serve the UAW's demands. All of GMs problems lead right to the source: vehicles that dont sell. Why dont the vehicles sell? because they were neglected for so long. Why were they neglected? because GM wanted to make money-on SUVs. The focus on SUvs caused GM to lose all its volume segments, the midsize segment, the compact segment and the minivan segment. Coming late into the hybrid game will cost GM that segment too. Guess what, SUV demand is shrinking, so GM is losing in that segment too. so much for making profits.

    how much does toyota make on a prius? 1000 bucks? why would they bring it to US borders at a time when gas is dirt cheap and people are running around in their "cool" SUVs? Because they:
    a) predicted demand for these things will increase translating into a stronger foothold in the new niche for them or
    b) they saw that GM was getting bashed for being a gas guzzling maker, so they released the prius to make themselves look good or
    c)they really do care about the environement (not likely).


    GM focused on short term profits, hence the SUV. they left their other segments to rot, and slowly the imports, which consistantly improved their vehicles in those segments, began to steal market share right from under GM's nose. They took the minivan segment, the familysedan segment, the compact segment-all volume segments- while GM was blindly selling tahoes. The cavalier, malibu, impala and the venture were all left to rot for decades, and now, that gas prices are going sky high and demand for the SUV has cooled, GM is trying to regain market share in those segments- with the cobalt, the new malibu, the new impala, the G6- all released in relatively short times from eachother. doesnt the general sound desperate? Would this all have happend if GM cared about all the other segments too? if GM had done some forward thinking?

    to survive in a competitive business world you need to be smart, and forward thinking (hey toyotas tagline is "moving forward", what a coincidence). You need to predict how the market will react to your products a while from now and figure out what your consumers want. GM has a crappy reputation-both for quality and fuel efficiency- and they didnt get that rep for being the best.

    All of GMs problems are their own fault. you cant blame toyota for the job layoffs or the factory closings, GM did it to itself. This is why i think all GMI members' blind hate towards toyota should instead be aimed towards GM itself, and its greedy tactics of making a few quick bucks, and not caring about its consequences or what the future might bring.

    i can just imagine what the execs were saying when they developed the hummer: "hey pal, are you sure this is a good idea? i mean wouldnt this damadge our reputation? what if gas prices go up? after all china is fast growing and supply is shrinking"...the other guy would say: "dont worry man, we'll make a quick buck, and if there are any problems down the road we'll compensate by laying a couple of workers off. After all, my christmas bill this year is gonna be sky high".

    my ranting is over.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns
    wow. lets see, GM focused on short term profits (SUVs) neglected other segments, and now they're screwed. They have trouble with the UAW because their cars dont sell, they dont make any money, and they cant afford to serve the UAW's demands. All of GMs problems lead right to the source: vehicles that dont sell. Why dont the vehicles sell? because they were neglected for so long. Why were they neglected? because GM wanted to make money-on SUVs. The focus on SUvs caused GM to lose all its volume segments, the midsize segment, the compact segment and the minivan segment. Coming late into the hybrid game will cost GM that segment too. Guess what, SUV demand is shrinking, so GM is losing in that segment too. so much for making profits.

    how much does toyota make on a prius? 1000 bucks? why would they bring it to US borders at a time when gas is dirt cheap and people are running around in their "cool" SUVs? Because they:
    a) predicted demand for these things will increase translating into a stronger foothold in the new niche for them or
    b) they saw that GM was getting bashed for being a gas guzzling maker, so they released the prius to make themselves look good or
    c)they really do care about the environement (not likely).


    GM focused on short term profits, hence the SUV. they left their other segments to rot, and slowly the imports, which consistantly improved their vehicles in those segments, began to steal market share right from under GM's nose. They took the minivan segment, the familysedan segment, the compact segment-all volume segments- while GM was blindly selling tahoes. The cavalier, malibu, impala and the venture were all left to rot for decades, and now, that gas prices are going sky high and demand for the SUV has cooled, GM is trying to regain market share in those segments- with the cobalt, the new malibu, the new impala, the G6- all released in relatively short times from eachother. doesnt the general sound desperate? Would this all have happend if GM cared about all the other segments too? if GM had done some forward thinking?

    to survive in a competitive business world you need to be smart, and forward thinking (hey toyotas tagline is "moving forward", what a coincidence). You need to predict how the market will react to your products a while from now and figure out what your consumers want. GM has a crappy reputation-both for quality and fuel efficiency- and they didnt get that rep for being the best.

    All of GMs problems are their own fault. you cant blame toyota for the job layoffs or the factory closings, GM did it to itself. This is why i think all GMI members' blind hate towards toyota should instead be aimed towards GM itself, and its greedy tactics of making a few quick bucks, and not caring about its consequences or what the future might bring.

    i can just imagine what the execs were saying when they developed the hummer: "hey pal, are you sure this is a good idea? i mean wouldnt this damadge our reputation? what if gas prices go up? after all china is fast growing and supply is shrinking"...the other guy would say: "dont worry man, we'll make a quick buck, and if there are any problems down the road we'll compensate by laying a couple of workers off. After all, my christmas bill this year is gonna be sky high".

    my ranting is over.
    That may be, but I still say GM Hybrids are going to catch on better than Toyota's. Why? Because they are actaully going to be what they are perceived to be without the preium price.

    Something that Toyota is not focusing on that may cause them to loose out in are crossovers. Like you said, SUV sales are going down (as of right now) and many of those SUV drivers are going to crossovers. Maybe crossovers will be GM's next big segment (replace SUV's).

    I still say that there is a chance SUV sales will pick up. Especially if gas prices continue to go down. The GMT-900's will tell the story.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap
    That may be, but I still say GM Hybrids are going to catch on better than Toyota's. Why? Because they are actaully going to be what they are perceived to be without the preium price.

    Something that Toyota is not focusing on that may cause them to loose out in are crossovers. Like you said, SUV sales are going down (as of right now) and many of those SUV drivers are going to crossovers. Maybe crossovers will be GM's next big segment (replace SUV's).

    I still say that there is a chance SUV sales will pick up. Especially if gas prices continue to go down. The GMT-900's will tell the story.
    WHAT?????? Ever heard of the Highlander, Rav4, RX330?? Toyota has a foot in the crossover market.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mags
    And I think it looks like dung.

    See how styling is in the eye of the beholder?

    MF
    the malibu is lackluster styling wise. Not a stand out like you all claim it is, and i also dont get the point of an SS trim either. Why would you buy an SS when you can buy a G6? or better yet, an altima SE-R with the sexier body?

    toyota has the camry SE, but people might take tht over the altima because its percieved to be higher quality, but the malibu SS doesnt even have that virtue.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap
    That may be, but I still say GM Hybrids are going to catch on better than Toyota's. Why? Because they are actaully going to be what they are perceived to be without the preium price.

    Something that Toyota is not focusing on that may cause them to loose out in are crossovers. Like you said, SUV sales are going down (as of right now) and many of those SUV drivers are going to crossovers. Maybe crossovers will be GM's next big segment (replace SUV's).

    I still say that there is a chance SUV sales will pick up. Especially if gas prices continue to go down. The GMT-900's will tell the story.
    I hope you heard about the story that Toyota will release it's 3rd gen hybrid system in 2008. It will be 50% cheaper than the current system, among other things. I don't know how much the GM/DCX system will cost, and it may likely have a cost advantage over the current Toyota system, but that may not be the case with the 3rd gen Toyota system.

    Besides, what's not "percieved" about the Prius? It's fuel economy? Sure, if you believe the media reports.

    If you look at actual Prius owners, many of them are averaging over 50mpg, and some Prius owners have gotten ABOVE EPA estimates.

    Go on Prius chat and check it out for yourself.

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    Re: Sign of the times: Hybrids save gas

    Quote Originally Posted by gmrebirth
    I hope you heard about the story that Toyota will release it's 3rd gen hybrid system in 2008. It will be 50% cheaper than the current system, among other things. I don't know how much the GM/DCX system will cost, and it may likely have a cost advantage over the current Toyota system, but that may not be the case with the 3rd gen Toyota system.

    Besides, what's not "percieved" about the Prius? It's fuel economy? Sure, if you believe the media reports.

    If you look at actual Prius owners, many of them are averaging over 50mpg, and some Prius owners have gotten ABOVE EPA estimates.

    Go on Prius chat and check it out for yourself.
    I'l have to see the cheaper stickers before I'll believe that the third generation will be cheaper. Like DuSpinnst said, the switch to Lithium batteries is not going to be a cheap one.

    The Prius doesn't get good gas mileage in media reports/reviews because they drive the car likst most people drive. They don't take it easy to get good gas mileage.

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