The size and scale the XTS should be... - Page 3

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Thread: The size and scale the XTS should be...

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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    I agree...on the Converj the angled side crease is the literal and visual "anchor" for the rudimentary "fins"....here the crease looks tacked on.
    What,on the one he photoshopped,or the actual car ?
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  3. #32
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by princecharmless View Post
    i agree. the side swoops dont tie into the front end at all or cadillac's styling direction. it really looks like an afterthought
    Quote Originally Posted by SRX 2.8T View Post
    Thank you, I knid of think monaro gets carried away sometimes, but thats an afterthought.
    You assume that Cadillac's styling direction is the right direction - I don't.

    I have looked back to past Cadillac style, but you probably think those '47 fenders looked tacked on, an after thought...




    The front fender 'blister' line wraps through the headlights (I've darkened the crease so you can see it on the headlight which was otherwise too bright for it to show properly), across the grille and around to the other front fender. So it does tie into the front.



    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    I agree...on the Converj the angled side crease is the literal and visual "anchor" for the rudimentary "fins"....here the crease looks tacked on.
    The Converj barely has any fins, whereas my chop actually has real fins that stand up proud of the trunk by 2-3 inches like proper Cadillac fins are meant to do. The Converj is lucky to be proud by 1/16th of an inch and the only thing fin-like is it's rearmost crease is about an inch back from the trunk, which mine is also in addition to the top crease line's 2-3 inches rise 'up' from the trunk.








    Last edited by MonaroSS; 01-26-2010 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    I can understand your concern w/ GM's design direction of the XTS from these photos, because I felt the same way. But this past weekend I saw it at NAIAS and in person, the car is much more beautiful than the photos convey. The comments I overheard at the show regarding the car were almost all positive at well. Even the people I was with (some of which are not really GM or Caddy fans) thought the car was really nice. The headlights and interior were really nicely designed. Personally, I think it's a nice rival to the Audi A8. Simple yet elegant lines. The drivetrain is a seperate issue however.

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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaroSS View Post
    You assume that Cadillac's styling direction is the right direction - I don't.

    I have looked back to past Cadillac style, but you probably think those '47 fenders looked tacked on, an after thought...




    The front fender 'blister' line wraps through the headlights (I've darkened the crease so you can see it on the headlight which was otherwise too bright for it to show properly), across the grille and around to the other front fender. So it does tie into the front.





    The Converj barely has any fins, whereas my chop actually has real fins that stand up proud of the trunk by 2-3 inches like proper Cadillac fins are meant to do. The Converj is lucky to be proud by 1/16th of an inch and the only thing fin-like is it's rearmost crease is about an inch back from the trunk, which mine is also in addition to the top crease line's 2-3 inches rise 'up' from the trunk.








    Well,to answer your first question I do think they are going in a hell of alot better direction than some of your ideas ! And just to tell you this is 2O1O not 19fuking47,so yeah,that was just an uhhh,AFTERTHOUGHT I wanted to share with you .
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by SRX 2.8T View Post
    What,on the one he photoshopped,or the actual car ?
    The actual car, sorry, I was not clear about that. For me, that taut Converj crease-fin design element could evolve into SO many cool manifestations over a decade at least. It could even lead to giant fins but this time as extensions of the tail lamp lense vs. the rear quarter panel. The XTS could have been so much more visually. I won't be getting excited again anytime soon about Cadillac design after such a let down.
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by SRX 2.8T View Post
    Well,to answer your first question I do think they are going in a hell of alot better direction than some of your ideas ! And just to tell you this is 2O1O not 19fuking47,so yeah,that was just an uhhh,AFTERTHOUGHT I wanted to share with you .
    Well it's not 1968, so yeah by your afterthought reasoning the current Camaro should have continued the styling themes of the previous Camaro and not been a modern interpretation of the 1968 Camaro. Good luck convincing people of the merits of that thinking...




    Something you non-designers should try to wrap you heads around is that no design will please everyone. If I, or anyone designing a car or even small modifications to a design, get 50% approval then that's a miracle. Human nature being what it is there would be fewer than a dozen designs on the road today that, if the world could be polled, would have more than 50% like the design. That’s why we have so much ‘choice’ in the market place, to cater to a wide range of personal tastes.

    What percentage here likes the Camry? Yet the world's richest car company sees fit to continue to make it. Why, when it's so easy to redesign it so that everyone likes the look of it? Oh yes, that's right, because most people don't like ANY car design you care to mention. We all of course think that everyone should like what we like, but sadly they don't. Not in cars, in politics, in fashion, in food, or even who is really good looking.

    When it comes to me "getting carried away sometimes" what you mean is I diverge from your particular taste in design, and that's all. I don't care if I do. I can't please everyone, I can't even please 50% of the people - even with a great design. And who’s to say it isn’t a great design just because you happen to be one of those people who don’t like that particular great design. The best car design by popular choice is often said to be the E-Type Jaguar, but lots of people don’t agree, but it’s still a great design even with those dissenters. Even if you were one who doesn’t like the E-Type, it’s still a great design because few designs ever get more than 50% approval.

    And another thing to remember is that car companies spend 6 months contemplating a new design and have a team of dozens of highly skilled designers to help refine and execute that design, and that is also true of all the cars out there that you don't like. Me, I take 6 minutes to contemplate a chop and then up to 20 minutes executing it on my own.

    So while I'm glad you expect me to meet your expectations for a car company team of designers, with whom you will likely statistically disagree with anyway, I may not be able to avoid coming up short in your eyes from time to time. But then it's just a hobby I enjoy, I’m not on someone’s payroll, and so I mostly do it to my own tastes. You can learn to chop yourself and then design to your own tastes - but don't expect many people to like your work just because you do, certainly nowhere near 50% will.

    But don’t let that put you off. Be true to yourself and your own aesthetic preferences….





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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    MonaroSS, thanks for the many, very thoughtful and substantive ways you consistently contribute to GMI. John
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    MonaroSS, thanks for the many, very thoughtful and substantive ways you consistently contribute to GMI. John
    Thanks mate,

    I have little problem with people disagreeing with all or part of what I may create, that's just healthy human diversity of taste. But him saying I "get carried away sometimes" can only be taken as a slight against me personally; and it ticked me off.

    It's effectively saying that my designs would be better if I had more personal discipline and self-control so as to stop myself getting carried away...

    He may be right.

    But it's still an insult to say it.

    No, actually I think my designs could be better if I let go and followed flights of fancy more often. You create more radical designs that people perhaps won't like that way, but when you do create something good it's more likely to be great.

    That's the crux of the problem you are having with Welburn. I think Cadillac are being too safe, not wanting to displease anyone. But the trade off in not taking risk is that you are less likely to create something really special, perhaps even a modern classic.

    And I know you want Cadillac to design modern classics like they once did....




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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by MonaroSS View Post
    Thanks mate,

    I have little problem with people disagreeing with all or part of what I may create, that's just healthy human diversity of taste. But him saying I "get carried away sometimes" can only be taken as a slight against me personally; and it ticked me off.

    It's effectively saying that my designs would be better if I had more personal discipline and self-control so as to stop myself getting carried away...

    He may be right.

    But it's still an insult to say it.

    No, actually I think my designs could be better if I let go and followed flights of fancy more often. You create more radical designs that people perhaps won't like that way, but when you do create something good it's more likely to be great.

    That's the crux of the problem you are having with Welburn. I think Cadillac are being too safe, not wanting to displease anyone. But the trade off in not taking risk is that you are less likely to create something really special, perhaps even a modern classic.

    And I know you want Cadillac to design modern classics like they once did....



    I'd love to see what you'd surprise us with after a few fine drinks of your choice and some sublime cannabis, your very favorite music playing.
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    MonaroSS, you have partly addressed one of my pet peeves - those who criticize everything without offering a positive alternative instead themselves. If he didn't like your chop, let's see HIS, and offer our opinions. Instead it's more criticism.
    Don't take it personally, he can't do it better than you do, or as well either. So keep up the good work.
    Most of us like it, and some of your designs look better than those of the car companies' designs.
    Your chops add to the enjoyment of the related discussion, so ignore him, knowing that there are MANY who like it, compared to the few vocal critics.

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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me View Post
    MonaroSS, you have partly addressed one of my pet peeves - those who criticize everything without offering a positive alternative instead themselves. If he didn't like your chop, let's see HIS, and offer our opinions. Instead it's more criticism.
    Don't take it personally, he can't do it better than you do, or as well either. So keep up the good work.
    Most of us like it, and some of your designs look better than those of the car companies' designs.
    Your chops add to the enjoyment of the related discussion, so ignore him, knowing that there are MANY who like it, compared to the few vocal critics.
    Thanks mate,

    I do welcome criticism when it gives some insight into what they actually dislike and why. I may not dislike it and would not change it, but then sometimes I may agree with them when they explain the problem and so I change it.

    But simply saying you don't like something a person does as many do here, and not just to me but to all those who post their works of art in Readers Talent, is just frustrating.




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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by SRX 2.8T View Post
    Woa,now those are fins !
    No, THESE are FINS!


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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by bmwboy2007 View Post
    No, THESE are FINS!

    Oh man, imagine those on the back of the XTS...

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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by bmwboy2007 View Post
    No, THESE are FINS!

    Yes indeed......THOSE are fins! My new wallpaper...thanks!
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    Re: The size and scale the XTS should be...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnstarnes View Post
    Yes indeed......THOSE are fins! My new wallpaper...thanks!
    Johnstarnes has an infatuation with fins.
    Take a look at my avatar, isn't he attractive ? ;D

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