Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

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Thread: Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    Press Kits are not vehicle option lists. They are two seperate things. You said you're supposed to get the info from the press kit. So use the press kit and not the order guide. The option list is under the vehicle tab, not the press kit.

    If you're going to write about those features and use them as an example of how Cadillac is falling behind, then post that information on the front page as a featured editorial, you need to make sure they are correct. Double or even triple check its correct. You have the moniker "Editor" under your name. You carry it well, but let it all go out the window when you say something like "I'm not sure where you expect me to look for such details"

    The details are part of an editors job.

    Again, all I'm saying if GMi wants to be taken seriously, the facts need to be right 100% of the time and corrected with a citation like the press does either by a correction section or a brief article and not under the radar.

    Its detrimental to the product you wrote about and misleading.

    Its a very big deal anytime the press messes up and people lose jobs and credentials over it. If you want to play ball in the big leagues, you need to think and act like you're in the big leagues. A mistake like the one we're discussing can have a bigger impact than you think.

    Like I said, I'm excited for the "drivers" aspect of this new section and its good to see GMi moving up in the press world. I would just hate for someone to pan a vehicle for something that may be available but wasn't on the sticker.
    Well, we can argue to the end, but if the order guide is listed on the media site..it IS part of the press kit. No offense, but I've been in the press side of this industry long enough to know the ropes.

    I swear we DO double check things like that. As I said, I don't know if I overlooked the heated rear seats or if it was not published. Either way it was a mistake, I take credit for it, and I apologize for it. What I'm saying is that the information GM presents to the press needs to be accurate. It isn't always the case. Regardless of who's mistake it was...I blame myself.

    I appreciate the feedback--really I do--but do not tell me how to do my job. Would you like me to tell you how to sell GM products (despite me not being in that side of this industry)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buick61 View Post
    That gets to the point of when the thread was made about the site posting retractions:

    https://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...actions-65851/
    We've posted retractions and article updates in the past. I'm not sure why this is even in question...

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap View Post
    Well, we can argue to the end, but if the order guide is listed on the media site..it IS part of the press kit. No offense, but I've been in the press side of this industry long enough to know the ropes.

    I swear we DO double check things like that. As I said, I don't know if I overlooked the heated rear seats or if it was not published. Either way it was a mistake, I take credit for it, and I apologize for it. What I'm saying is that the information GM presents to the press needs to be accurate. It isn't always the case. Regardless of who's mistake it was...I blame myself.

    I appreciate the feedback--really I do--but do not tell me how to do my job. Would you like me to tell you how to sell GM products (despite me not being in that side of this industry)?



    We've posted retractions and article updates in the past. I'm not sure why this is even in question...
    I don't sell for GM anymore, but if I did, I would be more than happy for someone to tell me if I was wrong about my sales presentation. In fact I made sure to double check every single thing before I told someone something. If I was in the wrong, I admitted to it. I've made mistakes before. Some small, some big. The big ones usually were fixed and I wouldn't lose the sale. It was the small ones, even if they were fixed, that got me into the most trouble.

    Like I said earlier, the order guide was not included in my 2010 SRX press kit or my 2010 LaCrosse kit or with my 2011 Regal kit, 2011 Lincoln lineup kit. I do a lot of work for a major site on the side. So I'm in my right to make a suggestion to you. I'm not telling you how to do your job. Its up to you if you want to misrepresent the vehicles as a member of the press. I'm just suggesting you make sure they are correct if you want this site to be taken seriously or at least admit your mistakes like every other member of the press will.

    My big gripe is that the problem was never fixed until recently, and I can't blame you for not reading thousands of comments about a subject, however, the heated seats were a big part of the topic. Its shows you have not driven the vehicle and went by the seat of your pants, so tell us why anyone should listen to anyones editorial when they haven't even sat in the vehicle or don't even have a brochure in front of you?

    If I wrote about how terrible a Bugatti Veyron is and I have not sat in one but wrote about based on whats on paper, would you take me seriously as a member of the press? What if I wrote about how amazing the new Cruze is and stated it had rear heated seats, but never sat in one?

    If GMi wants to be more than a forum and more like the press. It needs to not just emulate it, but follow the rules of the press. One of those rules is admitting and retracting the mistakes.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    I don't sell for GM anymore, but if I did, I would be more than happy for someone to tell me if I was wrong about my sales presentation. In fact I made sure to double check every single thing before I told someone something. If I was in the wrong, I admitted to it. I've made mistakes before. Some small, some big. The big ones usually were fixed and I wouldn't lose the sale. It was the small ones, even if they were fixed, that got me into the most trouble.

    Like I said earlier, the order guide was not included in my 2010 SRX press kit or my 2010 LaCrosse kit or with my 2011 Regal kit, 2011 Lincoln lineup kit. I do a lot of work for a major site on the side. So I'm in my right to make a suggestion to you. I'm not telling you how to do your job. Its up to you if you want to misrepresent the vehicles as a member of the press. I'm just suggesting you make sure they are correct if you want this site to be taken seriously or at least admit your mistakes like every other member of the press will.

    My big gripe is that the problem was never fixed until recently, and I can't blame you for not reading thousands of comments about a subject, however, the heated seats were a big part of the topic. Its shows you have not driven the vehicle and went by the seat of your pants, so tell us why anyone should listen to anyones editorial when they haven't even sat in the vehicle or don't even have a brochure in front of you?

    If I wrote about how terrible a Bugatti Veyron is and I have not sat in one but wrote about based on whats on paper, would you take me seriously as a member of the press? What if I wrote about how amazing the new Cruze is and stated it had rear heated seats, but never sat in one?

    If GMi wants to be more than a forum and more like the press. It needs to not just emulate it, but follow the rules of the press. One of those rules is admitting and retracting the mistakes.
    Lets just summarize:

    * I HAVE spent a lot of time in 2010 SRX's. None had heated rear seats...all were GM-owned vehicles too.
    * I HAVE admitted the mistake (several times now).
    * I DID post a retraction at the top of the article, in red font no less.
    * GMI DOES post retractions...we always have.

    It is critically important to me and all of the staff that we play by the rules. No one understands that better than I do...because I know we'll lose our relationships with the OEMs if we don't. We have said relationships BECAUSE we play by the rules mind you.

    There was one slip-up. It feel through the cracks. I hate that, but it is NOT indicative of how we work here. I will say that over and over until I'm blue in the face.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by nsap View Post
    Lets just summarize:

    * I HAVE spent a lot of time in 2010 SRX's. None had heated rear seats...all were GM-owned vehicles too.
    * I HAVE admitted the mistake (several times now).
    * I DID post a retraction at the top of the article, in red font no less.
    * GMI DOES post retractions...we always have.

    It is critically important to me and all of the staff that we play by the rules. No one understands that better than I do...because I know we'll lose our relationships with the OEMs if we don't. We have said relationships BECAUSE we play by the rules mind you.

    There was one slip-up. It feel through the cracks. I hate that, but it is NOT indicative of how we work here. I will say that over and over until I'm blue in the face.
    This is a much more professional response from an editor than "I'm not sure where you expect me to look for such details".

    I'm not saying it is indicative of how GMi works, but this sort of glaring mistake will make me question the validity of editorials and articles about product. If you got horsepower off by a number by "fat fingering" while typing, thats one thing. however, to use it as fact in a piece agaianst the subject looks as if it were hyperbole to support the editorial.

    I will say one more thing here, GMi has not always posted retractions and retractions are not typically done in an article that is months old and people probably won't see. Its usually done in a seperate section. otherwise, Buick61 who is blunt and honest would not have made a retraction thread.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    There are plenty of sites, yes the big sites, that correct their errors with little or no public statement or retraction. I know, because I correct a lot of them via a friendly personal email. I really don't see why this is such a big issue.

    Of course GMI will address any inaccuracies in their articles once they are pointed out (pm's are your friend), but making accusations (like for instance saying that some one has never sat in the vehicle) is not helpful, especially if you consider all of the press access that has afforded to someone, with makes the assumption less than likely.

    Whilst we are more than a blog at the moment, we are also not a major news outlet. We are not regulated by editorial policy, nor are we flush with dep. eds that have nothing better to do than chop words to ruin intent or libel.

    Our information is as good or better than any other media outlet. That level of quality is maintained by not just our editorial team but also the community that we strive to maintain. Don't forget that all the staff contributors on this site, also have real jobs.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    This is a much more professional response from an editor than "I'm not sure where you expect me to look for such details".

    I'm not saying it is indicative of how GMi works, but this sort of glaring mistake will make me question the validity of editorials and articles about product. If you got horsepower off by a number by "fat fingering" while typing, thats one thing. however, to use it as fact in a piece agaianst the subject looks as if it were hyperbole to support the editorial.

    I will say one more thing here, GMi has not always posted retractions and retractions are not typically done in an article that is months old and people probably won't see. Its usually done in a seperate section. otherwise, Buick61 who is blunt and honest would not have made a retraction thread.
    I don't appreciate you taking my comment out of context. I said that after you telling me not to use the order guide as an information source. That despite the fact that GM Communcications makes said order guides available to the press as information sources.

    GMI does post retractions, but whatever you say man. I do not feel there is a need for a specific section just for retractions. I don't see other outlets doing that...social or not. That said, I will be going through and reviewing our retraction policy.

    You have my word...there will not be any misinformation in our articles going forward. Now that we have press fleet access, we have no excuses to NOT get every detail correct on the products.

    So...

    *I am going to review our retraction policy and post about it publicly with examples.
    *You've got my word that misinformation will not happen going forward (though no promises with rumor type pieces).
    *I have already posted in the staff writers forum so that we can discuss the importance of information accuracy and ways to maintain such.
    *I edit every review before it is posted. If there is misinformation, the buck stops with me.

    Is there anything else I can do to make my point that we take this VERY seriously? If it is any consolation, I despise being proven wrong and being caught in a mistake...accuracy is a personal drive as much as a professional one.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    The feedback and support section would be a good place to post retractions. Perhaps a seperate forum is overkill, so how about using the forum the article was posted in?

    I don't believe I took your words out of context. Cadillac.com is a good place to start since it has the information on the website for shoppers to use. The law says it must not misrepresent the product, so thats a good place to start. If anyone can access the site, surely an editor can or would know to look there.

    I'm glad you're going to do these things and review these steps. Its absolutely important to make sure this doesn't happen. I'm not trying to make fun of you or the site, but this was one of hell of a glaring mistake and not a simple number problem. As I told ChevyRules when I pointed this out the first time, people read this site for opinions and information. You may very possibly have shot a few sales down with the one. Its a long shot, but it could have happened.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    The feedback and support section would be a good place to post retractions. Perhaps a seperate forum is overkill, so how about using the forum the article was posted in?

    I don't believe I took your words out of context. Cadillac.com is a good place to start since it has the information on the website for shoppers to use. The law says it must not misrepresent the product, so thats a good place to start. If anyone can access the site, surely an editor can or would know to look there.

    I'm glad you're going to do these things and review these steps. Its absolutely important to make sure this doesn't happen. I'm not trying to make fun of you or the site, but this was one of hell of a glaring mistake and not a simple number problem. As I told ChevyRules when I pointed this out the first time, people read this site for opinions and information. You may very possibly have shot a few sales down with the one. Its a long shot, but it could have happened.
    Coaster, talk about a double standard. I'm not going to take the time to go through and find them all - but you and I both know you have posted incorrect information about GM and competitors vehicles on multiple occasions. You did this as a GM dealership employee, which to me is far worse than NSAP getting bad info off the press site.

    You stated once that a SRX turbo was faster than an Audi Q5. You may very possibly have shot a few sales down with the one. Its a long shot, but it could have happened.
    Last edited by goblue; 08-12-2010 at 08:54 PM.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by goblue View Post
    Coaster, talk about a double standard. I'm not going to take the time to go through and find them all - but you and I both know you have posted incorrect information about GM and competitors vehicles on multiple occasions. You did this as a GM dealership employee, which to me is far worse than NSAP getting bad info off the press site.

    You stated once that a SRX turbo was faster than an Audi Q5. You may very possibly have shot a few sales down with the one. Its a long shot, but it could have happened.


    Oh Hai! Thanks for taking the time to attack me in this thread and state incorrect information. I believe I stated it handled better and didn't mention anything about speed or acceleration. Its in my signature. Also, this is not the thread for your personal vendettas. I'm sorry the SRX hasn't been "panned by reviewers" and "not selling" as you said it would, but really, man up and accept the fact its done the opposite of your expert prediction.

    have a nice night, GoBlue.
    Last edited by coaster.n3rd; 08-12-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    Oh Hai! Thanks for taking the time to attack me in this thread and state incorrect information. I believe I stated it handled better and didn't mention anything about speed or acceleration. Its in my signature.

    have a nice night, GoBlue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coaster, 4/27/2010
    The SRX turbo which you supposedly drove has a much greater power output and quicker 0-60 time than the Q5.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Double standard, huh?

    Post #100 Same thread

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd
    So I will admit after seeing hard data the Q5 can get to 60 faster than an SRX. But, can it use that acceleration in the turns? Yes, but not as well as the SRX.
    Again, this is not a place for your personal vendetta because you're upset about your prediction not ringing true.
    Last edited by coaster.n3rd; 08-12-2010 at 09:42 PM.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    Double standard, huh?

    Post #100 Same thread



    Again, this is not a place for your personal vendetta because you're upset about your prediction not ringing true.
    My point is you're willing and proven to make assumptions without checking facts to prove whatever your point is. That was one example of many more, and there are plenty of people on this site who will gladly point it out - and the pattern it represents.

    Now, you're not the only one who does that. And I've made mistakes as well. It's the blatant disrespect and condescension that's the problem, not some invented vendetta.

    When you're going to call out someone like NSAP over a clerical error then yes, your history becomes fair game. Heck, you accused me in that same thread of never even driving the car and now you're doing something similar in this thread and mikmak rightfully called you on it.

    Some people pour time into this site with no monetary gain. Why don't you try a respectful approach that recognizes that not for their time - you've got nowhere to post at all.
    Last edited by goblue; 08-12-2010 at 10:08 PM.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by goblue View Post
    My point is you're willing and proven to make assumptions without checking facts to prove whatever your point is. That was one example of many more, and there are plenty of people on this site who will gladly point it out - and the pattern it represents.

    Now, you're not the only one who does that. And I've made mistakes as well. It's the blatant disrespect and condescension that's the problem, not some invented vendetta.

    When you're going to call out someone like NSAP over a clerical error then yes, your history becomes fair game. Heck, you accused me in that same thread of never even driving the car and now you're doing something similar in this thread and mikmak rightfully called you on it.

    Some people pour time into this site with no monetary gain. Why don't you try a respectful approach that recognizes that not for their time - you've got nowhere to post at all.
    Your point is to take your personal issues out in a thread for your own gain. Don't point to other people to do your dirty work. If so many people are so willing to do so, why aren't they doing it? I'm assuming its because you're the only the one that has a vendetta against me. Is it because the SRX vastly outsold your predictions? Because they didn't immediately have money on the hood? Because you're upset that a review you posted against the SRX actually represented the handling as better than the Q5?

    What does my history have to do with misrepresenting a product as a front page news? Why aren't you calling everyone out you've argued with (and there are a lot of them) instead of just me? All of these point to your own problems with me and not others. People don't read comments to shop, they read reviews and editorials and you're first post was that I was using some sort of double standard when I wanted a retraction, and I posted a retraction about acceleration times. Now you've had to take a different approach with your one man smear campaign because the first plan of attack didn't work so well. Out of "plenty of people willing to do so" you're standing alone.

    GMi isn't the only game in town and this is evident by the number of people that have the left the site over the years and if any other site did this, I'd take the same approach. To me it is far better to be seen as disrespectful to point out to an editor a problem then to let something so glaringly problematic with an article go. So don't wag your finger in my face about how there would be nowhere to post because thats simply not true. It's still your problem and yours alone.

    Your vendetta and personal feelings should remain separate from business. You've made your bed with your predictions, now live with them. No smear campaign from you is going to change a thing.
    Last edited by coaster.n3rd; 08-13-2010 at 08:05 AM.
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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    GMi isn't the only game in town and this is evident by the number of people that have the left the site over the years and if any other site did this, I'd take the same approach. To me it is far better to be seen as disrespectful to point out to an editor a problem then to let something so glaringly problematic with an article go. So don't wag your finger in my face about how there would be nowhere to post because thats simply not true. It's still your problem and yours alone.
    I think that is a bit of a convenience use of skewed facts. We gain about 20-30 new people a day...I can count what we have lost on two hands. As with anything, the site has a churn rate. We can't please everyone.

    Perhaps another lesson we ALL can take away from this thread is that there are more dimensions to an argument than the one that is most-obvious to each of us individually.

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    Re: Driver's thread (retractions, infromation, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd View Post
    Your point is to take your personal issues out in a thread for your own gain. Don't point to other people to do your dirty work. If so many people are so willing to do so, why aren't they doing it? I'm assuming its because you're the only the one that has a vendetta against me. Is it because the SRX vastly outsold your predictions? Because they didn't immediately have money on the hood? Because you're upset that a review you posted against the SRX actually represented the handling as better than the Q5?

    What does my history have to do with misrepresenting a product as a front page news? Why aren't you calling everyone out you've argued with (and there are a lot of them) instead of just me? All of these point to your own problems with me and not others. People don't read comments to shop, they read reviews and editorials and you're first post was that I was using some sort of double standard when I wanted a retraction, and I posted a retraction about acceleration times. Now you've had to take a different approach with your one man smear campaign because the first plan of attack didn't work so well. Out of "plenty of people willing to do so" you're standing alone.

    GMi isn't the only game in town and this is evident by the number of people that have the left the site over the years and if any other site did this, I'd take the same approach. To me it is far better to be seen as disrespectful to point out to an editor a problem then to let something so glaringly problematic with an article go. So don't wag your finger in my face about how there would be nowhere to post because thats simply not true. It's still your problem and yours alone.

    Your vendetta and personal feelings should remain separate from business. You've made your bed with your predictions, now live with them. No smear campaign from you is going to change a thing.
    Wow. I don't understand all the other stuff you've posted, or some perceived value you've attached to it. I'm not in the business and just like "talking" about cars.

    What I do know is that It's not necessary to be disrespectful to post a minor correction to an article, and when you did it multiple times in this thread, that's why I decided to post.

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