Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

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Thread: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

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    Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    http://europe.autonews.com/article/2.../ANE/180729882

    A little over a year since GM sold Opel/Vauxhall it's back to making a profit - from losing a billion dollars a year to a profit of half billion a year - now why couldn't GM do that ?

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    So my question is, did the sale of Opel to PSA scare the union enough into letting them make the necessary job cuts that they blocked GM from making? How did this happen without riots from the unions?

    And is this sustainable? Making cuts is easy, did PSA simply cut all new projects/vehicles in development? That will lead to profits today at the expense of tomorrow....

    I just find it hard to believe it was this simple to turn around Opel. Is GM really that incapable?

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruperts Trooper View Post
    http://europe.autonews.com/article/2.../ANE/180729882

    A little over a year since GM sold Opel/Vauxhall it's back to making a profit - from losing a billion dollars a year to a profit of half billion a year - now why couldn't GM do that ?
    Give us your theory

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Give us your theory
    My theory is that GM Detroit understands SFA about markets outside the US and so totally mismanaged it's subsidiaries in Europe - IMO that's why Cadillac repeatedly fails in Europe, Chevrolet failed in Europe, Opel/Vauxhall was failing and had to be given away and now Holden is failing.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    So my question is, did the sale of Opel to PSA scare the union enough into letting them make the necessary job cuts that they blocked GM from making? How did this happen without riots from the unions?

    And is this sustainable? Making cuts is easy, did PSA simply cut all new projects/vehicles in development? That will lead to profits today at the expense of tomorrow....

    I just find it hard to believe it was this simple to turn around Opel. Is GM really that incapable?
    PSA Groupe has too much R&D capability - which is good for new projects but bad for the bottom line - with Opel Russelsheim given responsibility for the Groupe's 4-cylinder engines and all new Opel/Vauxhall modelss going onto PSA platforms, they need to thin out PSA engine R&D and Opel chassis R&D.

    There's certainly more pain to come in the form of job losses.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    GM didnt want GM Europe to turn a profit. It was it's tax benefit division. I cant remember the exact number but the taxes on a profit in Europe for GM would have been north of 40%.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Its probably easier for PSA for they were starting out with a clean balance sheet, unlike GM .. bottom line, there are no losses on both companies books. GM at least does not have to carry Opel, ultimately, GM made the right decision for Opel, for its shareholders and for Opel employees...

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
    GM didnt want GM Europe to turn a profit. It was it's tax benefit division. I cant remember the exact number but the taxes on a profit in Europe for GM would have been north of 40%.
    I don't buy that, nor do I buy into the other theory that Europe's profits were "given" to North America in order to make North America look better. If that were true then why would GM sell it's European operations?

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I don't buy that, nor do I buy into the other theory that Europe's profits were "given" to North America in order to make North America look better. If that were true then why would GM sell it's European operations?
    Because the tax offset wasnt large enough to cover the losses.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    I don't buy that, nor do I buy into the other theory that Europe's profits were "given" to North America in order to make North America look better. If that were true then why would GM sell it's European operations?
    I suspect a lot of "accounting" was taking place but I agree that's not a reason to sell.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruperts Trooper View Post
    I suspect a lot of "accounting" was taking place but I agree that's not a reason to sell.
    Opel was unprofitable and GM couldn't figure out how to fix it, plain and simple. No cloak and dagger accounting reasons, etc..

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    Opel was unprofitable and GM couldn't figure out how to fix it, plain and simple. No cloak and dagger accounting reasons, etc..
    What changed? There was a time when Opel/Vauxhall profits were keeping GM afloat because of losses elsewhere.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    So my question is, did the sale of Opel to PSA scare the union enough into letting them make the necessary job cuts that they blocked GM from making? How did this happen without riots from the unions?

    And is this sustainable? Making cuts is easy, did PSA simply cut all new projects/vehicles in development? That will lead to profits today at the expense of tomorrow....

    I just find it hard to believe it was this simple to turn around Opel. Is GM really that incapable?
    You must see it from Opel's perspective. What was the benefit for Opel being part of GM? Sharing engines? Which engine below 2 litre displacement from Chevrolet, Holden, Daewoo or Buick was competitive 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago on the European market? Even there was one, it was mostly an old Opel sourced engine. What about diesel engines this size? Correct. None. Same goes for some platforms. The result was that Opel either bought a license from a foreign company to build one or did developed their own but didn't have the volume to make it a success.

    That changed dramatically with PSA. Opel now have access to modern gas and diesel engines and platforms. For example the 1.2 inline 3 base engine with up to 120hp from PSA won the engine of the year award four times in a row. There is only one GM engine that is competitive, the 1.0 inline 3 turbo, and yes you guess it, it is a Opel only engine. The other gasoline PSA engine is the 1.6 turbo with up to 270 hp. Add some hybrid versions, what is Opel currently developing for PSA, and you have all you need for a mainstream brand in Europe.

    Btw, PSA only has 2 platforms but they are modular. Can you imagine how easy it is to build different cars from different brands at the same plant and how Opel benefit from it, even they don't look the same unlike, for example, the Mokka, Encore and Trax? Selling them in the same market is not longer a problem. No need to leave the market in benefit for another brand.

    Some PSA examples sharing the same platform (DS 7 Crossback, Citroen C5 Aircross, Opel Grandland X, Peugeot 5008):









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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    I revive this thread by mentionning this news I saw posted on Allpar. And now PSA inherit of a hot potato....
    https://www.allpar.com/forums/thread...s-over.214257/

    https://global.handelsblatt.com/comp...ed-opel-972860

    Dieselgate has finally caught up with Opel, the laggard in the German car industry, as authorities raided the headquarters and another factory, looking for evidence of diesel emission fraud. The subsidiary of France’s PSA, which makes Peugeot and Citroen cars, is now officially part of the emissions-cheating scandal that has engulfed other German automakers.

    The probe concerns Opel’s Insignia, Zafira and Cascada diesel models. It could lead to a mandatory recall of some 100,000 vehicles across Europe.

    Opel, owned by General Motors until last year, for its part denies use of the illegal defeat devices that reduce nitrogen dioxide emissions during testing but turn off during road use, leading to emissions levels well above those advertised.

    It’s yet another stumbling block in Opel’s attempted comeback. Although it registered an operating profit for the first half of this year, Opel has been losing market share and is looking to cut some 20 percent of the workforce. Its losses under GM ownership have totaled about $19 billion since 1999.

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    Re: Opel/Vauxhall profitable again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruperts Trooper View Post
    What changed? There was a time when Opel/Vauxhall profits were keeping GM afloat because of losses elsewhere.

    General Motors got to keep all Opel Groups $8.5 billions Pension Scheme debt, GM only got $2.3 from PSA = sold at a loss of $6.2 billions that GM took a hit with last year because they were so desperate to get rid of Opel. Wonder what the Opel Group profits would have looked like with $6.2 billions of Opel money pits Pension Scheme debt debt added to it, GM 2018 result look crap with it written of in it.


    To PSA credit they have done what GM should have done ages ago nothing related to Opel being a success with products, PSA shut down most of the very expensive German side of the business got rid of 3,800 German staff whose labor costs are the highest in the world, German plants that cost twice as much to assemble a car than a French PSA staff, the German design staff got hacked back by 2,000 most got redeployed in a PSA French car design company on lower wages lets hope they don't infect PSA products with thier $20 billion loser designs. PSA also introduced more practical French cars for the first time to the unpractical typically poor designed cramped cars Opel line-up like the 7 seater Combi Life that have more residual profits designed into them.

    If PSA can continue to drop swop most of the $20 billion loser Opel model bad news line-ups of the past, bring new PSA French designed models with new names obliterate all traces of bad Opel designs of the past and sit them on the French designed platforms Opel will be on the mend, not saying all Opel's are bad Rupert just the $20 billion loser cars of the past 2 decades , nothing wrong with cars like the Opel GT your Vauxhall Victor they were great highly profitable in thier day'


    Hope Opel do manage to become a success in the future Rupert, give it a few more years of the pension scheme free debts living they don't have on thier books Carlos Tavares gets all the credit not Opel for turnaround he has taken on strong German trade unions and won cut the massive wage bill to free up some of the massive revenue Opel produce that GM were frightened to do, Carlos Tavares also dumped $6.2 billion of Opel Pension Scheme debt back onto GM he negotiated it not Opel, l am pretty sure Carlos Tavares won't take any crap from Opel like GM that will make all difference.






    Opel Combi Life

    A small Opel that's practical well designed, doesn't catch fire, highly profitable, a roomy Opel not thats an unpractical 2 seater cramped in the rear seats typically unpactical Opel Corsa to Insinia crap cramped design of the past, not your typicall boring bland $20 billion Opel dull as ditchwater loser.

    French designed Opel Combi Life sits on a French designed platform the first Opel in an Opel that's decent spacious practical versatile words not usually associated with cramped uncomfortable Opel's of GM's past is high profit yield something new that been driving profit higher in the Opel shed.
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