Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYTHING

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Thread: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYTHING

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    Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYTHING

    Lets's take the ELR..

    Things that held the ELR back:

    1) Price possibly, but

    2) No Sunroof. Seriously? In a car that looks like this.. sold to greenies with money (obviously) in California.. No Sunroof?

    3) Its a sports car config. The backseat, like that in a 911 is a joke.

    4) No advertising after "Poolside." None. Nada. If costs vs return is the issue.. be like most luxo manufacturers and have a all-inclusive marketing campaign that shows all the models at once. Heck. Take page from Chevy. Their ad has everything from Cruze to Z06 in it.



    5) Preach leasing! $1999 at lease with $599-699 per month. Why are people looking at the PRICE anyway unless its a collector car? The tech will continuously evolve.. buying an EV in today's market will in teh next few years be kno different than buying an iPhone or Galaxy. Every 6 months!!! Upgrade.


    Bottom line is that the ELR at $75K was fine IF Cadillac only wanted to sell them to niche buyers. They didn't. They FAILED to sell the intended 3000 units annually because they did nothing to market this car after "Poolside" went viral and let's be honest, its a 2-seater (eff the back seat in any of these sports coupes/Verts from Cadillac to Benz), it has no sunroof, which is insane considering the market for this car would seemingly be the well-to-do, Silicon Valley, greenie types who love to show up in something sexy that lets's their hair blow around in the wind.

    This car.. THIS CAR.. should have been a sub-ATS sports car, with a convertible roof or sunroof having coupe, with a TT 2.0L 270HP and 350HP VSeries version, and ta hell with EV. The Voltec should have gone in the XT4, XT5, XTS...... those, with Voltec would have made sense. The XTS with Voltec would have added numbers in the realm of what Tesla sell because it would be in a car that could actually seat 5, maybe 6, with a trunk that could house a bunch of Golf Clubs.

    As I said before.. the ELR should have been called MLR (mini luxury roadster) .. Coupe version with sunroof.. or even convertible. The EV was not a necessity, but if anything, and I can't figure out why GM finds it impossible to do variants, a MLR with an optional voltec powertrain avail. U telling me this would not.. hell still couldn't be a hit in any state that gets the Sun?




    Come to think about it.. why is that the mainstream brand gets two sports cars, both available in convertible, but the luxury brand has none of either. U can definitely see where ATS sales would have been higher had they had a convertible



    or the CTS had of had an available coupe and THIS..




    Please remember that the Gen2 CTS's success was partially to do with the fact that it had a coupe. A coupe which added about 30% of its overall says while it was available. What stooge up in the silos said "hey.. we will make an ATS coupe that will satisfy the buyers who might otherwise get a 4Series or C-Class coupe, but not make a CTS Coupe even though the CTS's competition from BMW and Benz both have coupes and convertible.." F******K U!!! STOOGE!!! Somebody throw him out the 40th floor window.

    America123 brought up the Sixteen in another thread.. but I say lets bring up all the missed opportunity Concepts. Face it, whether U hate GM/Cadillac or not.. GM, hands down has given us some of the greatest, most beautiful concepts in automotive history hands down. Each one of those concepts cars from the last 20 years could still easily fit in today's line-up and just like that we would no longer be having a "What will it take to get Caddy back to Tier 1" conversation again.

    The Sixteen... 4000 buyers per year @ $320K from a company that sells 10 million a year of everything from A-Z. It works. Its the VW model right now. Damn. GM would instantly have a hybrid.. Stay with me.. Hybridized super-luxury/mainstream brand. Explained.. A line-up from CT3 to CT16, and the XTs and Escalades between would vault Cadillac back above Daimler, to Rolls-Royce level again.

    Fantasy? No.. They literally and actually have all the tools needed to do it, but won't. Stay in your lane to a whole new level.. No GM.. Get out of your LANE. The Sixteen, now 17 years old.. would still, with a few facial modifications wow the world if it was seen pulling up at the Oscars



    This car, seeing it in the movie Entourage was a treat.. the Ciel.. or CT7 would be basically a CT6 two door convertible sitting on Omega, powered by the LGW, Black-Wing 1 and 2, and selling for $100-190K. Doable? Hell yeah. All the parts are there. What's the fantasy? Where is the real investment outside of stamping?



    How lost are U gonna be.. when the new C8 shows its face in a few months.. and its really a reworked Cien? I still have faith that those key fobs we saw a few months back, one with the Vette insignia and the other with the Caddy insignia, mean that mid-engine is gonna be in both divisions at the same time. Makes zero sense from an investment point of view to not. The Fob showed the retractable roof button like the Vette.. the hatch button and what might be a power hood or additional storage button. This could be EXACTLY what GM should be doing with a car like this to spread and amortize costs faster.. like VW Group does with the R8, Gallardo/Huracan and Italdesign Zerouno. Only having the C8 as the sole vehicle, especially considering the FE C7 is supposed to live on will be a profit disaster. Not to mention Cadillac needs this more than Chevy does. Its a no brainer, if for no other reasons than Halo effect and plant utilization.





    Would this not make a gorgeous sister to the upcoming CT5? Yeah.. product placement is hard, but A Coupe variant..


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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    There is much wrong with what GM is doing or has done recently.

    GM has managed to leaned out,they have the 4 proper divisions running great.

    GM's marketing branch is kicking ass,it has the everyday Joes (Chevy)covered with the "real" commercials,the mid lux buyers (Buick) are covered the exclusive hard to find commercials (Cadillac) for the exclusive luxury buyers and Professional Grade (GMC).

    The CT-5 has translated well from concept to production model. The XT-'s now have a full line and there is an EV coming on to the scene in just a little over a year.

    No reason to become frustrated with thing as they are,which by the way are pretty awesome right now . Be patient and see how AMAZERING things are going to be in the next 2-3 years!.

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Those are all great and probably what someone at Cadillac actually wants to do...The problem is that Cadillac requires more $$$ than what GM is willing to invest.
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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Buttons View Post
    There is much wrong with what GM is doing or has done recently.

    GM has managed to leaned out,they have the 4 proper divisions running great.

    GM's marketing branch is kicking ass,it has the everyday Joes (Chevy)covered with the "real" commercials,the mid lux buyers (Buick) are covered the exclusive hard to find commercials (Cadillac) for the exclusive luxury buyers and Professional Grade (GMC).

    The CT-5 has translated well from concept to production model. The XT-'s now have a full line and there is an EV coming on to the scene in just a little over a year.

    No reason to become frustrated with thing as they are,which by the way are pretty awesome right now . Be patient and see how AMAZERING things are going to be in the next 2-3 years!.
    I agree with a a lot of this but the truth is that Cadillac, of all the brands, simply should get more attention. In truth Cadillac should damn near cover the same spectrum as Chevy, minus the trucks... with the "in-between" brand actually being Buick-GMC. Yes.. I consider BUICK and GMC to be the same damn brand. And that too should cover the same spectrum as Chevy, but INCLUDING trucks. If U think about it almost does.. and completely did when the Verano was around. Almost for every Chevy there was an equivalent BUICK/GMC, with the exception of the, Spark, Sonic, Volt, Camaro and Vette.. which could have been partially fixed with the Avista or Riviera Concepts. Cadillac should do something similar. Its not an unheard of chore when one reeeeeeally considers that the Mercedes Benz brand actually competes for the most part with Chevy and Cadillac car for car

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    The problem with Cadillac is not the product selection. It is reliability. The reliability is pathetic. Bottom of the heap. That is what is ruining Cadillac's reputation. They would be better off doing fewer things and doing them well.
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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    It's there, ready to go. The only thing missing is the elusive "yes" from management.

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    All of these things could have been done to help rectify Cadillac's dilemma. Problem was Cadillac management and GM's top brass for not green lighting these and stifling them with no funds.

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Bham-Bam; your tune has changed, you are starting to sound like the rest of us!?..........................



    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Buttons View Post
    Be patient and see how AMAZING things are going to be in the next 2-3 years!.
    If we've learned ANYTHING; it this.......................... "perpetually"



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    So who thinks Cadillac will break 200K in the US and 500K Globally this year? Next year?
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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed753 View Post
    Bham-Bam; your tune has changed, you are starting to sound like the rest of us!?..........................





    If we've learned ANYTHING; it this.......................... "perpetually"



    ---------------------------

    So who thinks Cadillac will break 200K in the US and 500K Globally this year? Next year?
    LOL. "Just you wait!" That should be GM's new slogan. Do they HAVE a slogan? zerozerozero? This is sitcom material.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    Those are all great and probably what someone at Cadillac actually wants to do...The problem is that Cadillac requires more $$$ than what GM is willing to invest.
    what did they do with 12 Billion?

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by Dovetonsils View Post
    The problem with Cadillac is not the product selection. It is reliability. The reliability is pathetic. Bottom of the heap. That is what is ruining Cadillac's reputation. They would be better off doing fewer things and doing them well.
    Reliability is partially the concern, but the rest of it is that not only do people assume Cadillacs are cheap—they do nothing to try to prove anyone wrong. They're of poor quality, and the products always strike you as phoned in.

    I look at a lot of cars from a lot of brands, and few strike me as thoroughly underdeveloped and ill-thought as Cadillac. I don't like COMAND in my MB, but I don't get in the car and wonder who signed off on any aspect of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackGTP View Post
    It's there, ready to go. The only thing missing is the elusive "yes" from management.
    But there's no mystery to the elusiveness of the "yes" at Cadillac.

    Because of repeated failures, consistently mediocre product, and consistently inconsistent managerial decisions, people are generally unlikely to seriously consider Cadillac—and so management has become permanently lukewarm in their commitment to a brand that never seems to be able to deliver a win.

    You can only give "Cadillac" a pass so many times—the brand itself has done nothing wrong, but it's beyond tainted by bad decisions at this point, and it has no positive future. Look forward to more of that consistently mediocre product.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1958carnut View Post
    All of these things could have been done to help rectify Cadillac's dilemma. Problem was Cadillac management and GM's top brass for not green lighting these and stifling them with no funds.
    None of them had to be done and all of them would just be more deadweight product on a brand that can't move product.

    They'd be useful if Cadillac were healthy, but it's not—they come after health and success, they don't create it.

    Cadillac's dilemma is unfixable because it's still connected to GM. GM cannot deliver the product a luxury brand demands, so Cadillac will never be a real luxury brand—but so long as it makes some kind of money, I doubt it will be closed until the "faithful" retire one way or another. After that happens, I have little faith in Cadillac surviving.

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    what did they do with 12 Billion?
    IDK, you tell me...Cadillac still, after what's going to be its 3rd renaissance, isnt going to have a full lineup. The CT6s big brother, the supposed flagship, is stillborn, they've dropped variants...used to have a wagon & 3 Coupes now they have none of either...instead of building on the XLR/ELR they're gone, they don't have a single convertible so....yeah where's the $12B? I dont see it.

    Ok so let's focus on what we know is already here or upcoming:

    Ct5 update to the CTS
    CT4 ATS update
    XT4 not sure what to make of it
    XT5 SRX update
    XT6 Reworked C1XX that could've been done for 2017 not sure what the 3 year wait was about

    That doesn't add up to $12B
    Last edited by sdotjeezy; 03-30-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdotjeezy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    what did they do with 12 Billion?
    IDK, you tell me...Cadillac still, after what's going to be its 3rd renaissance, isnt going to have a full lineup. The CT6s big brother, the supposed flagship, is stillborn, they've dropped variants...used to have a wagon & 3 Coupes now they have none of either...instead of building on the XLR/ELR they're gone, they don't have a single convertible so....yeah where's the $12B? I dont see it.

    Ok so let's focus on what we know is already here or upcoming:

    Ct5 update to the CTS
    CT4 ATS update
    XT4 not sure what to make of it
    XT5 SRX update
    XT6 Reworked C1XX that could've been done for 2017 not sure what the 3 year wait was about

    That doesn't add up to $12B
    The SUV focus is going to give Cadillac the half million global sales, fershur.. I do not see the need for a Sedan above the CT6 V, though a more powerful V would be appreciated, perhaps an AWD CT5 V with the ZR1 nuke and a dual clutch option as well as the 10 speed..

    Its a business.. Hopefully, the spend whats left of the 12 billion wisely.

    , Based on driving dynamics of the Blazer, a wider track and a suposedly new suspension technology for the XT6, according to its lead engineer, it drives like a Cadillac.
    The blazer is getting rave reviews from a chassis dynamics standpoint, if Cadillac did one up on the Blazer, it should drive very well..

    The XT4 will outsell all Cadillacs.. Fershur.

    Now if only they did a V sport, get that 4 banger somewhere about 350 HP and 350 lbs.. 3rd gen magnetic ride.. It would do wonders for the brand..
    Last edited by mbukukanyau; 03-30-2019 at 01:02 PM.

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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    Cadillac's dilemma is unfixable because it's still connected to GM. GM cannot deliver the product a luxury brand demands, so Cadillac will never be a real luxury brand—but so long as it makes some kind of money, I doubt it will be closed until the "faithful" retire one way or another. After that happens, I have little faith in Cadillac surviving.
    As I mentioned in other threads, perhaps the only hope in Cadillac attaining "real luxury brand" status is for General Motors and Cadillac to divorce.
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    Re: Someone has to say it: CADILLAC ***ED UP by not Saturating the Market with EVERYT

    Quote Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
    As I mentioned in other threads, perhaps the only hope in Cadillac attaining "real luxury brand" status is for General Motors and Cadillac to divorce.
    This was sort of JDN's endgame. His vision of Caddy was a sort of standalone branch w/ hardly any ties to the GM mothership. Problem is that upper management didn't agree with that plan which ultimately led to his departure.
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