You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

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Thread: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

  1. #1
    Walking markhamdons's Avatar
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    You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    The on-again, off-again saga of whether Pontiac is GM's performance division continues. With headlines like this, you have to question its staying power and relevency ....


    Pontiacís future lineup to focus small, front-wheel drive models

    Your thoughts please?

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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Get rid of Pontiac.

    This isn't 1967. Nobody buys "muscle cars" and haven't bought them since about 1971 when the insurance industry, not Washington, killed them.

    Then consider the fact that even during the heydey of the muscle car, ordinary family versions outsold the SS's, GTX's and whatnot about 10 to 1. Wanna know what the two best-selling '69 Chevelles were? The strippo sedan and the Greenbrier wagon. Muscle cars, at their peak, rarely took more than 10% of the overall model family's sales, that is, the ones based on ordinary models, not bespoke designs like Camaro and Charger.

    So in the 81 years of Pontiac's history, maybe 8 of them were the "performance" image years, starting with the '64 GTO and ending when everything went limp in '72. Pontiac stopped being relevent once the imports arrived. So, pray tell, what was just so "sporty" or "performance" about a '74 Grand LeMans? Or a '77 Grand Prix? or an '80 Bonneville Brougham. Or an '84 2000 Sunbird? or an '87 6000? I'm sorry it takes more than a few GTO's and the laughable halfbaked Fiero to constitute a "performance brand."

    There's a whole litany of great marques that have come and gone. Wolseley. Packard (the most tragic). Nash. Triumph. De Soto. La Salle. Studebaker. Panhard. Sunbeam. Pegaso....

    Market conditions killed those marques and market conditions should have killed Pontiac off ages ago, yet GM sees fit to keep this relic on life support, seemingly to appease fans stuck in some time machine, or drooling over their cousin Wooderson's Chevelle 454 SS...

    Loving those old cars is fine. Trying to keep a brand operating under today's conditions simply to keep that memory alive is folly. Pontiac had the opportunity over a decade ago to reshape Pontiac into a brand befitting a "sports" image (emphasize "sports", not "performance"), but decided that vomit-inducing bodyside ribbing, sawblade-shaped alloy wheels, and my favorite, reverse lights designed to look like fog lights, was the way to go.
    Last edited by t-rex; 08-25-2008 at 09:29 PM.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 RamJet502's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    This isn't 1967. Nobody buys "muscle cars" and haven't bought them since about 1971 when the insurance industry, not Washington, killed them.
    I beg to differ, here is my brother's 07 Mustang GT.



    The muscle car is alive and well with the new Camaro and Challenger.

    I'd like to see Pontiac all RWD and all performance.
    Last edited by RamJet502; 08-25-2008 at 10:04 PM.

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 big swede's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Pontiac might at well as be dead since it is now full of retreads to appease the dealers.

    Pontiac should have been:
    Solstice
    G2 Cruze
    G4 Astra with and without a turbo option
    G6 Genesis coupe as your blueprint
    G8 As is.
    Firebird/TransAm/GTO Name it what you want but make it based on the Camaro.

    Two small 4 seaters will make the dealers happy. The G6 if done correctly could be a big seller and the serious performance fans would be taken care of.
    Last edited by big swede; 08-25-2008 at 10:32 PM.

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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    kill it nobody cares

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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 big swede's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by ARCANGEL View Post
    kill it nobody cares
    I'm sure they would if they had the money to pay everyone off. They found out with Oldmobile how expensive it was to kill off a brand. Instead it looks like they will feed it the scraps. Yes Pontiac deserves better.

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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Pontiac who?
    '87 Merc Tracer '88 Toyota Tercel '89 VW Golf '94 Saturn SL '97 Pontiac Grand Am '00 Olds Silhouette '02 Dodge Intrepid '04 Chev Malibu '06 Saturn Vue '08 Toyota Sienna

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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) Premium Member BigAls87Z28's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Pontiac will not be killed, but having fwd does not mean its dead.
    If in the next 2-3 years, its all rebadges...then its gunna be a sad sight.
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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Premium Member Neanderthal's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by big swede View Post
    Pontiac might at well as be dead since it is now full of retreads to appease the dealers.

    Pontiac should have been:
    Solstice
    G2 Cruze
    G4 Astra with and without a turbo option
    G6 Genesis coupe as your blueprint
    G8 As is.
    Firebird/TransAm/GTO Name it what you want but make it based on the Camaro.

    Two small 4 seaters will make the dealers happy. The G6 if done correctly could be a big seller and the serious performance fans would be taken care of.
    I ran across an old CD, with an intro-to-G6 (Tempest, anyone?) article.
    They called it the 6000 STE reborn, had much good to say about it.

    GM just has too many chiefs, too many MBAs, too much bureaucracy.
    They need an Alan Mulally to clean the riffraff out.
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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid mgescuro's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    I've already stated quite succinctly what GM needs to do with Pontiac.

    https://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...s-close-65878/

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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Bravada's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    They need an Alan Mulally to clean the riffraff out.
    He would rename the G6 "Taurus" and wait for the sales to mysteriously pick up. He would also make sure all subcompact cars for the US would be delayed until 2010 and sell Cadillac, Saab and Hummer, because those three brands have at least a remote chance of competing in the premium market on a global scale.

    In a market where people would increasingly be buying small cars, and everybody wants "sporty" above all (who does NOT want to drive a sporty car?), Pontiac is one of GM's best marketing opportunities. The problem with Pontiac is Saturn - a brand GM currently also put in the on-again off-again shelf. An Astra made in the US under the Pontiac brand could've been a big hit in 2005. Same as a SWB Mazda6 Epsilon competitor given the development budget of BOTH Aura and G6.

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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJet502 View Post
    I beg to differ, here is my brother's 07 Mustang GT.

    The muscle car is alive and well with the new Camaro and Challenger.

    I'd like to see Pontiac all RWD and all performance.
    Sorry, I meant to say they haven't sold in large numbers since that time.

    Don't get me wrong, I've got a soft spot for Pontiac, well at least for 1960s Pontiacs! And I too would love to see a real Pontiac lineup, consisting of a few sports sedans, coupes, roadsters, and hell even a sporty coupť-like crossover, or maybe something like the BMW X6. Pontiac could very well have something Cayenneish successfully fit into its lineup.

    But "performance" only sells to a handful of buyers, and the stang, Camaro, and Challenger pretty much have that market wrapped up. With V6 grocery-getters doing 0-60 times that shame most 60s cars, it's hard to market "performance" in this day and age. It's like bragging about power windows! Big whoop when every other car has them! So it's difficult to justify having an entire division of cars like this. There simply isn't a case for it.

    And with Alpha four years away, I just don't see Pontiac surviving on what it's got until anything good gets here (and from we keep hearing, Pontiac still isn't getting an Alpha yet). What's insane about this is that Alpha should have not only been developed years ago, but should have been developed for Pontiac!

    I'd rather see Pontiac die with some dignity rather than have its last days on the market be nothing but G3s, G5s, and Torrents.

    I'm inclined to agree with both Bravada and mrs.t-rex, who insists Pontiac should become the N/A arm of Opel, selling everything OPC Corsa hatches up to a big Statesman-based Bonneville. It's not just a few GMI fans who felt the '05 Astra should have come here as a Pontiac...
    Last edited by t-rex; 08-26-2008 at 01:42 AM.

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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid Premium Member paul8488's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    Quote Originally Posted by Bravada View Post
    An Astra made in the US under the Pontiac brand could've been a big hit in 2005. Same as a SWB Mazda6 Epsilon competitor given the development budget of BOTH Aura and G6.
    Yup yup. I totally agree. I try to imagine how hot the G6 would be today if it was as good as the Aura. Same deal if the G5 was the Astra.
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    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) Premium Member BigAls87Z28's Avatar
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    I remember pleeding for GM tobring the Astra here to the US as a Pontiac, make it along side Cobalt, andhave a true sport compact to fight off the Mazda 3.
    They got half the message.
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    Re: You have to question what GM is doing with Pontiac

    I blame lame-o Saturn for taking all the good cars and then letting them rot on the lot.

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