Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

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Thread: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

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    Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    sorry if this has already been asked ... does anyone know what the grand total number of Pontiacs produced 1926-2009?
    Last edited by aukc; 10-17-2009 at 11:47 PM.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    This would be good info to have.
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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Wiki says 3.8 million Catalinas... I know this is true 'cause I was the one who added them all up.

    As if proof of my OCD is neccessary, here's a head start:

    26-27 : 204,553 ~ 204,553
    1928 : 224,784 ~ 429,337
    1929 : 200,503 ~ 629,840
    1930 : 62,888 ~ 692,728
    1931 : 84,708 ~ 777,436
    1932 : 45,340 ~ 822,776
    1933 : 90,198 ~ 912,974
    1934 : 78,859 ~ 991,833
    1935 : 129,468 ~ 1,121,301
    1936 : 176,270 ~ 1,297,571
    1937 : 236,189 ~ 1,533,760
    1938 : 97,139 ~ 1,630,899
    1939 : 144,340 ~ 1,775,239
    1940 : 217,001 ~ 1,992,240
    1941 : 330,061 ~ 2,322,301
    1942 : 83,555 ~ 2,405,856

    1946 : 137,640 ~ 2,543,496
    1947 : 230,600 ~ 2,774,096
    1948 : 245,419 ~ 3,019,515
    1949 : 304,819 ~ 3,324,334
    1950 : 446,429 ~ 3,770,763
    1951 : 370,159 ~ 4,140,922
    1952 : 271,373 ~ 4,412,295
    1953 : 418,619 ~ 4,830,914
    1954 : 287,744 ~ 5,118,658
    1955 : 554,090 ~ 5,672,748
    1956 : 405,730 ~ 6,078,478
    1957 : 334,041 ~ 6,412,519
    1958 : 217,303 ~ 6,629,822
    1959 : 383,320 ~ 7,013,142
    1960 : 396,716 ~ 7,409,858
    1961 : 340,635 ~ 7,750,493
    1962 : 521,933 ~ 8,272,426
    1963 : 590,071 ~ 8,862,497
    1964 : 715,261 ~ 9,577,758
    1965 : 802,000 ~ 10,379,758
    1966 : 831,331 ~ 11,211,089
    1967 : 817,826 ~ 12,028,915
    1968 : 910,977 ~ 12,939,892
    1969 : 870,528 ~ 13,810,420
    1970 : 691,303 ~ 14,501,723
    1971 : 586,853 ~ 15,088,576
    1972 : 706,978 ~ 15,795,554
    1973 : 919,872 ~ 16,715,426
    1974 : 580,748 ~ 17,296,174
    1975 : 532,043 ~ 17,828,217
    1976 : 748,842 ~ 18,577,059
    1977 : 911,050 ~ 19,488,109
    1978 : 900,380 ~
    1979 : 907,412 ~
    1980 : 770,821 ~
    1981 : 600,543 ~
    1982 : 547,271 ~
    1983 : 462,279 ~
    1984 : 827,576 ~
    1985 : 735,161 ~
    1986 : 952,943 ~
    1987 : 784,349 ~
    1988 : 795,194 ~
    1989 : 864,346 ~
    1990 : 716,817 ~
    1991 : 525,210 ~

    All the numbers I have on hand. Anyone else got the rest ?? I'll add them to this post if folk want to keep them all together....
    Last edited by balthazar; 10-18-2009 at 08:25 PM.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Oh, how the mighty have fallen...

    I know around the 1989-1990 mark Pontiac was the third best selling car brand in the U.S., behind Ford and Chevrolet. It's pathetic to think that the once great brand was selling around 300-350k in its final years... Half of those being fleet sales. Pontiac was the epitome of GM's incompetence. If only Mr. Lutz worked for GM a decade earlier, before the brand lingered in mediocrity, overused body cladding, decal applied sportiness and became too damaged to salvage, Pontiac would still be relevant in the years going forward. His vision of Pontiac truly being a cheaper alternative to BMW performance could've come to fruition in the mid 1990's... But a decade later it turned out to be far too little, far too late.
    R.I.P. Pontiac

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Pontiac would be a great Subaru fighter.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    >>"I know around the 1989-1990 mark Pontiac was the third best selling car brand in the U.S., behind Ford and Chevrolet."<<

    Pontiac was #3 from 1962-1970 inclusive.

    >>"Pontiac would be a great Subaru fighter."<<

    Except Pontiac got rid of the excessive plastic cladding some years ago.
    Luckily for subaru.
    Seriously, I don't see it as either possible or desirable.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by balthazar View Post
    >>"I know around the 1989-1990 mark Pontiac was the third best selling car brand in the U.S., behind Ford and Chevrolet."<<

    Pontiac was #3 from 1962-1970 inclusive.

    >>"Pontiac would be a great Subaru fighter."<<

    Except Pontiac got rid of the excessive plastic cladding some years ago.
    Luckily for subaru.
    Seriously, I don't see it as either possible or desirable.
    Well what else could we do with Pontiac? I know it's hard for "enthusiasts" to understand, but every brand can't have 3 RWD sportscars. Everyone wants Chevrolet to have Corvette, Camaro, and a RWD flagship. Everyone wants every Cadillac to be RWD. I've even heard people who want Buick to have both an Alpha RWD and a RWD G8-badge job flagship.

    What does that leave for Pontiac? Nothing. There's no reason for every brand to have RWD at every brand. Some of those products ARE necessitated. Cadillac must be RWD. Buick must not. Chevy can use a RWD flagship. Maybe if Pontiac enthusiasts had realized the 60s were over and accepted a different kind of speed, their brand would be alive.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by balthazar View Post
    >>"I know around the 1989-1990 mark Pontiac was the third best selling car brand in the U.S., behind Ford and Chevrolet."<<

    Pontiac was #3 from 1962-1970 inclusive.
    I was trying to be as up to date as possible. I wasn't really sure on their actual rank after 1990. But we know that the Asian brands came on strong in the 1990's to upset the balance and really change the dynamics.

    Amazing that they sold so many cars in the 60's after GM pondered killing them in the 50's... Ol' Bunky Knudsen knew what he was doing back in the day... Along with Estes and DeLorean, he made Pontiac the "Excitement" brand that many of us remember, and the youthful brand that every young and young at heart person wanted to drive.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    >>"...every brand can't have 3 RWD sportscars. Everyone wants Chevrolet to have Corvette, Camaro, and a RWD flagship. Everyone wants every Cadillac to be RWD. I've even heard people who want Buick to have both an Alpha RWD and a RWD G8-badge job flagship."<<
    Aren't these the people who generally advocated the discontinuance of Pontiac anyway??
    I certainly don't fit the "everyone" mold you put forth; I see no need for Chevy to have a RWD FS, and in fact I'd rather see a Firebird than a Camaro.
    No reason Cadillac could not be all RWD with zero effect on Pontiac.
    Not nearly as many shop with FWD / RWD as the #1 priority as you may think.

    >>"Maybe if Pontiac enthusiasts had realized the 60s were over and accepted a different kind of speed, their brand would be alive."<<
    Maybe, but subaru is far from the only choice here (generic / malformed people movers + 1 fast model).

    >>"Amazing that they sold so many cars in the 60's after GM pondered killing them in the 50's..."<<
    That wasn't actually on the table as a real scenario. It was dangled as incentive to rejuvinate the marque- sales were not radically in trouble in the early 50s, just not where Corp neccessarily wanted them. From '50-53 inclusive, Pontiac was #5 - killing the Division was not a real probability.
    Last edited by balthazar; 10-18-2009 at 12:06 AM.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by balthazar View Post
    >>"Amazing that they sold so many cars in the 60's after GM pondered killing them in the 50's..."<<
    That wasn't actually on the table as a real scenario. It was dangled as incentive to rejuvinate the marque- sales were not radically in trouble in the early 50s, just not where Corp neccessarily wanted them. From '50-53 inclusive, Pontiac was #5 - killing the Division was not a real probability.
    I've heard both scenarios over the years. I know when Knudsen and Estes took over the Division in '56, Pontiac was sixth in sales and sinking fast, along with the brand's profits. In house, GM was an incredibly competitive environment, so I could very well see upper management dangling a possible dissolving of the brand as a kick in the butt, so to speak.

    But I wouldn't put it past the cocky and arrogant GM management, even in those days, to actually consider killing the brand. Another way to generate more competition and innovations in the remaining brands would be to actually kill a Division. Oldsmobile was the resurgent Division in the 50's and covered a very similar demographic as Pontiac at the time. Even though this was a golden age of American automobiles and their sales, Pontiac was bringing nothing new or exciting to the table. They were thought of as more stodgy than Buick at the time, without bringing Buick-like profits. GM had killed numerous Divisions and Subsidiaries prior to that time, though none as large as Pontiac. GM ruled the auto market in the 50's. I could easily see them believing they would make up for lost Pontiac sales through their other highly successful brands, which would theoretically be even more competitive with the loss of Pontiac Motor Division.

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    >>"I know when Knudsen and Estes took over the Division in '56, Pontiac was sixth in sales and sinking fast, along with the brand's profits. "<<

    I question this. Yes, Pontiac slipped to 6th in '56, but note the sales levels :
    '54 : 287K
    '55 : 554K
    '56 : 405K
    '57 : 333K

    Buick took a similar tumble :
    '55 : 737K
    '56 : 635K
    '57 : 404K
    '58 : 240K

    As a student of Buick, I have not read that Buick's profits were 'sinking fast' and that Buick was considered being dropped. Should be roughly the same on the Corp balance sheet... except Buick was doing more R&D than Pontiac.

    You have to look @ Pontiac for '55 as an anomoly- it was nearly double the previous year! '56 was still well ahead of '54. And I've not ever seen any relaible, hard facts about the Division's profitablilty during this time period (GM does not report Divisional loss/profit).... The only thing Pontiac was R&D-ing was their V-8 (begun circa '50 IIRC, intro'd for '55)- it's not like there was huge capital drain from -say- '53-56.

    >>"But I wouldn't put it past the cocky and arrogant GM management, even in those days, to actually consider killing the brand."<<
    GM management was certainly NOT "cocky & arrogant" in the '50s, sir. Management is not a function of office or title, but of man. Different men, different thinking, different attitude. "GM" here is irrelevant.

    >>"I could easily see them believing they would make up for lost Pontiac sales through their other highly successful brands, which would theoretically be even more competitive with the loss of Pontiac Motor Division."<<
    IMO you assume FAR too much WRT management thinking 60 years ago (unless you were there?).
    Pontiac didn't 'bring anything less' to the table than Olds did, except Olds & Cadillac got their V-8s in '49, Buick in '53 and Chevy / Pontiac in '55. OK; Olds brought out the Fiesta convert for '53, dead after 1 year. Pontiac was solid, dependable transportation.... it wasn't so much the product itself as it was the 'gee-whiz' mid-late '50s pop culture that started looking for more. Pontiac paid off beginning in '57 with design, the Bonneville & FI, plus more & more racing efforts/ victories. It would have been very short-sighted to cancel Pontiac in -say- '55 when '57 was the ramp-up to a decade of #3 sales and a legacy seldom matched before or since. One could easily point to that as proof GM mangement WASN'T "cocky & arrogant", no?

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suziebob View Post
    Pontiac would be a great Subaru fighter.
    why the hardon for Subaru?
    SANITIZED: for your viewing pleasure

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    Thumbs up Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    The conversation is great, keep it up, but what I'm really after is the stats. What about the missing information, production from 1992 onwards? Originally I was just interested in the Grand Total, but I can see there's lots of interest in the year-by-year breakdown and it might be the best way to arrive at a total and to be able to confirm its accuracy.

    And to clarify these numbers are production (not sales) by model year (not calendar year) and include vehicles manufactured in other countries when those vehicles were intended for distribution in the US.

    Also, here is a revised set of numbers (changes marked with asterisks) that I obtained from another source, so do the number we have so far need some further confirmation?

    1926-7 204,553
    1928 224,784 429,337
    1929 200,503 629,840
    1930 62,888 692,728
    1931 84,708 777,436
    1932 45,340 822,776
    1933 90,198 912,974
    1934 78,859 991,833
    1935 129,468 1,121,301
    1936 176,270 1,297,571
    1937 236,189 1,533,760
    1938 97,139 1,630,899
    1939 144,340 1,775,239
    1940 217,001 1,992,240
    1941 330,061 2,322,301
    1942 83,555 2,405,856

    1946 137,640 2,543,496
    1947 230,600 2,774,096
    1948 245,419 3,019,515
    1949 304,819 3,324,334
    1950 446,429 3,770,763 *
    1951 370,159 4,140,922 *
    1952 271,373 4,412,295
    1953 418,619 4,830,914
    1954 287,744 5,118,658
    1955 554,090 5,672,748
    1956 405,730 6,078,478
    1957 334,041 6,412,519
    1958 217,303 6,629,822
    1959 383,320 7,013,142
    1960 396,716 7,409,858 *
    1961 340,635 7,750,493
    1962 521,933 8,272,426
    1963 590,071 8,862,497
    1964 715,261 9,577,758
    1965 802,000 10,379,758
    1966 831,331 11,211,089
    1967 817,826 12,028,915
    1968 910,977 12,939,892
    1969 870,528 13,810,420
    1970 691,303 14,501,723
    1971 586,853 15,088,576
    1972 706,978 15,795,554
    1973 919,872 16,715,426
    1974 580,748 17,296,174
    1975 532,053 17,828,227 *
    1976 748,842 18,577,069
    1977 911,320 19,488,389 *
    1978 900,380 20,388,769
    1979 810,279 21,199,048 *
    1980 770,881 21,969,929 *
    1981 600,543 22,570,472
    1982 527,236 23,097,708 *
    1983 442,944 23,540,652 *
    1984 827,576 24,368,228
    1985 735,161 25,103,389
    1986 952,943 26,056,332
    1987 784,340 26,840,672 *
    1988 795,194 27,635,866
    1989 864,346 28,500,212
    1990 716,817 29,217,029
    1991 525,210 29,742,239

    29,742,239
    1995 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    My '26-42 numbers were from Pontiac, They Built Excitement- pretty thorough & well-done book. '46-63 numbers were from the Standard Catalog of American Cars, which is known to have some published errors. '63-87 numbers were from a production totals piece mailed directly from PMD to me. At a quick glance: the first book agrees with your numbers over PMDs here.
    As to overseas production cars..... the Pontiac... book does list production #s for the '88-91 LeMans... so as long as they were intended for the U.S. market, it seems these numbers are inclusive.

    1950 :: 446,429 is correct (typo on my part).
    1951 :: 370,159 is correct.
    1960 :: 396,716 is correct (I had the calendar total here).

    Sorry for the errors.

    1975 :: model year total directly from PMD: 532,043. (vs. 532,053 - off 10)
    1977 :: model year total directly from PMD: 911,050. (vs. 911,320 - off 270)
    1979 :: model year total directly from PMD: 907,412. (vs. 810,279 - off 97,133)
    1980 :: model year total directly from PMD: 770,821. (vs. 770,881 - off 60)
    1982 :: model year total directly from PMD: 547,271. (vs. 527,236 - off 20,035)
    1983 :: model year total directly from PMD: 462,279. (vs. 442,944 - off 19,335)
    1987 :: model year total directly from PMD: 784,349. (vs. 784,340 - off 9)

    Which is right here, esp RE '79, '82, '83, I do not know.

    I will look into the model breakdown totals...

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    Re: Grand Total Pontiac Production 1926-2009?

    Differences between PMD records & Pontiac, They Built Excitement for 1979...
    ...comparing...

    The difference is sourced from but 2 models (otherwise the 2 agree) ::
    PMD ~ P,TBE
    LeMans wagon : 27,517 ~ 27,518 (off 1)
    Grand Prix : 210,050 ~ 112,916 (off 97,134)

    PMD lists a breakdown for the GP for '79 : 124,815 base GPs, 24,060 GP SJs and 61,175 GP LJs. PTBE only lists a grand total of 112,916.

    Here's how they compare for the GP :
    PMD ~ P,TBE
    '76 GP : 228,091 ~ 228,091
    '77 GP : 288,430 ~ 288,430
    '78 GP : 228,444 ~ 228,444
    '79 GP : 210,050 ~ 112,916
    '80 GP : 114,714 ~ 114,714
    '81 GP : 147,711 ~ 147,711

    IDK, but 210 fits better between 228 & 114 than 112 does. The GP was all new for '78- I cannot see that huge of a drop from '78 to '79. Which is correct ??
    Last edited by balthazar; 10-18-2009 at 07:08 PM.

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