T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum – General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

  1. #1
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    11,071
    Thanks
    771
    Thanked 421 Times in 226 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 Jaguar XF, 2009 Ford Flex

    T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Little bit of background so some of this makes sense. This 2010 lineup is really the culmination of changes that occurred between 2000 and 2009. Rather than a "dream lineup" I concocted an "alternative timeline" of sorts, based on ideas I've had as far back as 1997. So a lot of the products will seem like strange fits if viewing them from a 2008-on perspective. Likewise many names I borrowed from GM concept vehicles, only to have them later appear in reality on other GM products (Traverse for example). In fact most of the products GM's released so far this decade aren't even part of this scenario.

    I've got the whole 2000MY to 2010MY setup elsewhere, but it's just too massive to post. I might throw together a webpage one day. Every product on here was pored over and examined before a final decision was made. Again many will not make sense strictly from today's perspective, but I'll gladly explain to anyone interested (....crickets chirping....) how and why the models evolved the way they did!

    Enjoy!

    Chevrolet Beat: Gamma 3dr hatch
    Chevrolet Aveo: Gamma 4dr sedan & 5dr hatch
    Chevrolet Cobalt: Delta 4dr sedan & 2dr coupe
    Chevrolet Volt: Delta
    Chevrolet Malibu: Epsilon LWB
    Chevrolet Monte Carlo: Epsilon SWB coupe
    Chevrolet Caprice: Lambda
    Chevrolet Captiva: Delta Crossover
    Chevrolet Dune: production version of Daewoo T2X concept
    Chevrolet Traverse: Epsilon LWB crossover
    Chevrolet Tahoe: Lambda crossover
    Chevrolet Suburban: GMT900 SWB (current Tahoe)
    Chevrolet Suburban EXT: GMT900 LWB
    Chevrolet Colorado: Brazilian-developed next-gen model
    Chevrolet Signal: Ridgeline-esque CUT. See the RIA Saturn Switch
    Chevrolet Silverado: uses Avalanche/Suburban styling; 1500 & 1500HD only
    Chevrolet Cheyenne: current Silverado; 2500 & 3500 only
    Chevrolet Movano: global fullsize van

    Chevrolet “Heritage” HHR: as is
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Bel-Air & Nomad: Alpha compacts; see RIA entry
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Impala: big Zeta fastback sedan
    Chevrolet “Heritage” El Camino: Holden Ute
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Camaro
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Corvette
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Blazer: SWB 2dr & LWB 4dr on Alpha “Unitruck”

    Pontiac Groove: funky Gamma microhatchwagonthingy
    Pontiac Vibe: moves to Delta
    Pontiac Tempest: Alpha coupe and sedan; same as Aussie Holden Torana
    Pontiac Grand Prix: the G8 (I hate alphanumeric names)
    Pontiac Solstice
    Pontiac Raptor: hi-po Alpha 2+2 along Mazda RX-8 lines (forgot. This is a "Pontiacized" 2+2 Saab Aero-X!)
    Pontiac GTO: Holden 60 coupe we’ve just seen

    Pontiac (Canada) G1: rebadged Beat
    Pontiac (Canada) G2: renamed Groove
    Pontiac (Canada) G3: rebadged Aveo
    Pontiac (Canada) G4: rebadged Cobalt
    Pontiac (Canada) G5: renamed Vibe
    Pontiac (Canada) G6: rebadged Daewoo Tosca

    Saturn Corsa: Gamma; Opel Corsa
    Saturn Meriva: Gamma; Opel Meriva
    Saturn Recon: Gamma; global subcompact Crossover
    Saturn Sky: Gamma; Opel Tigra
    Saturn Astra: Delta; Opel Astra (full lineup)
    Saturn Zafira: Delta; Opel Zafira
    Saturn Arena: Delta; Vue and Antara would use this global moniker
    Saturn Aura: Epsilon; Opel Insignia (Opel would use Aura name)
    Saturn Nimbus: Epsilon 8-seat MPV aimed at Europe; same size as Ford S-Max

    Buick Allure: Delta compact sedan
    Buick Regal: Epsilon midsizer with Enclave styling
    Buick Lucerne: Lambda fullsizer between Regal & P/A
    Buick Park Avenue: LWB/Wide Zeta sedan with Enclave styling
    Buick Riviera: Zeta; this is the Velite. See RIA section Wildcat
    Buick Terraza: Epsilon SWB 5-seat and LWB 7-seat MPV; similar to Fiat Croma
    Buick Rendezvous: Epsilon SWB "Baby Enclave"
    Buick Enclave

    Hummer HX: production version of concept
    Hummer H4: Grand Vitara-sized Baby Hummer on SWB Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H3: would use LWB/Wide Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H2: GMT900; shrinks to Tahoe/Yukon size

    GMC Terrain: Alpha “Unitruck” about the size of current Equinox/Torrent
    GMC Himalaya: Zeta midsize crossover; sold by Holden in Oz
    GMC Yukon: gets totally different sheetmetal from Chev. 122” wheelbase.
    GMC Relay: Alpha “Unitruck” is essentially a supersized RWD Brazilian Montana
    GMC Crewman: Zeta “Unitruck” platform; cross between Avalanche & Holden Ute
    GMC Sierra: as is
    GMC Acadia: Lambda; becomes GM’s sole minivan entry

    Saab 9-1: funky little Saab Mini-Cooper-fighter
    Saab 9-2: Delta-sized Saab to compete with Audi A3
    Saab 9-3: Epsilon three-door “hatchwagon” or convertible; Saab’s answer to C30
    Saab 9-4x: Delta compact crossover
    Saab 9-5: current 9-3 would have been introduced as new 9-5
    Saab 9-6x: SWB Lambda crossover
    Saab 9-7: Lambda sport sedan to battle Audi A6

    Cadillac ATH: export only; baby Delta Caddy hatchback
    Cadillac BLS: Alpha sport sedan & wagon
    Cadillac BRX: Provoq styling on Alpha platform
    Cadillac BTR: A&S compact roadster
    Cadillac STS: current CTS but a tad bigger and on Zeta
    Cadillac SRX: redesigned Zeta CUV along Provoq lines
    Cadillac ULS: S-class competitor on top-shelf “Omega” platform
    Cadillac XLR: updated
    Cadillac Escalade: GMT800 would be replaced by Zeta “unitruck” model.

    P.S. MANY of these ideas were inspired by the countless suggestions posted here on GMI...
    Last edited by t-rex; 03-04-2008 at 08:13 PM.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    GMI Staff Member FenwickHockey65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    20,826
    Thanks
    388
    Thanked 3,755 Times in 1,405 Posts
    My Ride
    '03 GMC Envoy/'07 Ford F-150

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Questions:
    What happens to the Denalis?
    What happens to the Yukon XL?
    Does the CTS just die or is it the STS?
    And the Monte Carlo on Lambda?
    Hidden Content
    2003 GMC Envoy SLE
    2007 Ford F-150 XL SuperCab (State-issued)
    2014 Dodge Charger Pursuit (State-issued)

  4. #3
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    11,071
    Thanks
    771
    Thanked 421 Times in 226 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 Jaguar XF, 2009 Ford Flex

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
    Questions:
    What happens to the Denalis?
    What happens to the Yukon XL?
    Does the CTS just die or is it the STS?
    And the Monte Carlo on Lambda?
    Denalis are just sub-series of the Yukon.

    The Yukon and Yukon XL are merged into one model with a 122" WB (straddling the previous two). We were really trying to set the Yukon apart from the Chevy GMT900s as much as possible.

    The CTS is the essentially the same car, just I think Cadillac's naming scheme is stupid. B=small models, S=midrange models, X=top-dawg models. The Caddy's would use an upgraded Zeta platform. The STS as we know it would never exist. I had an "XLS" from 2003-2009 that was a widened LWB Zeta, and the ULS replaced this model.

    Monte Carlo is Epsilon. Actually this is a leftover from when I was trying to squeeze Oldsmobile in. Somebody here on GMI sketched a "Saturn Cutlass" coupe that looked really good. So I sent it over to Chevy to replace the ghastly W-body MC.

    And fans of the working man can rejoice! Our scheme kept every N/A plant running and even a few old shuttered plants like Ypsilanti (which was used in lieu of Silao) and Flint's "Buick City".
    Last edited by t-rex; 03-04-2008 at 07:41 PM.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    8,969
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Alot of Chevy dealerships would have to expand their lots!! I like most of it, and love the Buick and Pontiac names. Good dreaming t-rex!

  7. #5
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    11,071
    Thanks
    771
    Thanked 421 Times in 226 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 Jaguar XF, 2009 Ford Flex

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by likearock00 View Post
    Alot of Chevy dealerships would have to expand their lots!! I like most of it, and love the Buick and Pontiac names. Good dreaming t-rex!
    Note: the Chevy "Heritage" models would be sold through a separate set of Chevy dealers. This was the wifeypoo's idea! She noticed most Olds dealers were paired with Chevy, and this was our way of keeping GM from having to pay off Olds franchises. Chevy dealers holding Olds franchises wouldn't have to pay the franchise fee for the "Heritage" line, but other Chevy dealers would. We also reckoned GM could allow the "Heritage" dealers to sell the Silverado/Cheyenne/Suburban lineup (given they too have a good bit of heritage) to give those outlets some volume to justify their existence.

    And it was TOUGH keeping the Chevy lineup from getting out of hand! At one point I had like 32 models! That's why some, like the Groove, went to Pontiac, and splitting the "Heritage" line into separate outlets would keep the model line in regular Chevy stores from getting too ridiculous.

  8. #6
    GMI Staff Member FenwickHockey65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    20,826
    Thanks
    388
    Thanked 3,755 Times in 1,405 Posts
    My Ride
    '03 GMC Envoy/'07 Ford F-150

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Oh no, I messed up. I meant to ask about the Caprice on Lambda?
    Hidden Content
    2003 GMC Envoy SLE
    2007 Ford F-150 XL SuperCab (State-issued)
    2014 Dodge Charger Pursuit (State-issued)

  9. #7
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    11,071
    Thanks
    771
    Thanked 421 Times in 226 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 Jaguar XF, 2009 Ford Flex

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
    Oh no, I messed up. I meant to ask about the Caprice on Lambda?
    This is the "Chi" that GM had been talking about. When we created the platforms, we simplified them into "families" even though they have notable engineering differences within the same family. The Lucerne-Caprice-97 use basically a shortened, and narrower, Lambda platform. The AWD option will help them sell in snowy markets! These were originally "supersized" Epsilons, but we reckoned expanding Lambda would help justify development costs, and the products would be more refined on the bigger Lambda platform. Plus you can't put a V8 in Epsilon!

    For example "Alpha" is highly flexible in design. It comes in two platform widths (narrow for the Tempest, wider for the Solstice), conventional transmission (Nomad, Tempest) or rear transaxle (Raptor, Solstice). And the "Unitruck" versions used by Hummer are basically a heavily modified version of this platform.

    Also, we played with history a little bit! We had GM partner with Fiat (no cash swop involved, just a technical collaboration). "Alpha" would be a joint-product between basically Holden and Alfa Romeo. Alfa would FINALLY get RWD rear-transaxle sport sedans again! Both GM and Fiat would develop the four-cylinder gas engines, while Fiat would just buy GM V6s and V8s outright. All GM and Fiat small Diesels would be the Fiat JTD design.

    My idea for the Fiat-Croma-based Terraza came from this pic. I had it up on the screen one day and my wife asked "Is that a new Buick?" She said the Croma looked very "Buicky", so we had GM and Fiat share the main body, with each getting its own front sheetmetal. GM cancelled the "Buick Signia" sportwagon that was planned for an '04 introduction, but we kept it alive as a Buick! My wife contributed heavily to much of this lineup. Maybe it's just us, but I think this shot is very "Buicky" looking! We have GM building it under contract to Fiat at the Hamtramck plant, where the Europe-bound Saturn/Opel MPV is built. So it also gave GM some export dollar potential!

    Last edited by t-rex; 03-04-2008 at 08:24 PM.

  10. #8
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid mgescuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    43,524
    Thanks
    3,961
    Thanked 2,102 Times in 2,120 Posts
    My Ride
    E350, 9-5 Aero

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Chevrolet Beat: Gamma 3dr hatch
    Chevrolet Aveo: Gamma 4dr sedan & 5dr hatch
    Chevrolet Cobalt: Delta 4dr sedan & 2dr coupe
    Chevrolet Volt: Delta
    Chevrolet Malibu: Epsilon LWB
    Chevrolet Monte Carlo: Epsilon SWB coupe
    Chevrolet Caprice: Lambda
    Chevrolet Captiva: Delta Crossover
    Chevrolet Dune: production version of Daewoo T2X concept
    Chevrolet Traverse: Epsilon LWB crossover
    Chevrolet Tahoe: Lambda crossover
    Chevrolet Suburban: GMT900 SWB (current Tahoe)
    Chevrolet Suburban EXT: GMT900 LWB
    Chevrolet Colorado: Brazilian-developed next-gen model
    Chevrolet Signal: Ridgeline-esque CUT. See the RIA Saturn Switch
    Chevrolet Silverado: uses Avalanche/Suburban styling; 1500 & 1500HD only
    Chevrolet Cheyenne: current Silverado; 2500 & 3500 only
    Chevrolet Movano: global fullsize van

    Chevrolet “Heritage” HHR: as is
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Bel-Air & Nomad: Alpha compacts; see RIA entry
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Impala: big Zeta fastback sedan
    Chevrolet “Heritage” El Camino: Holden Ute
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Camaro
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Corvette
    Chevrolet “Heritage” Blazer: SWB 2dr & LWB 4dr on Alpha “Unitruck”

    Fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Pontiac Groove: funky Gamma microhatchwagonthingy
    Pontiac Vibe: moves to Delta
    Pontiac Tempest: Alpha coupe and sedan; same as Aussie Holden Torana
    Pontiac Grand Prix: the G8 (I hate alphanumeric names)
    Pontiac Solstice
    Pontiac Raptor: hi-po Alpha 2+2 along Mazda RX-8 lines (forgot. This is a "Pontiacized" 2+2 Saab Aero-X!)
    Pontiac GTO: Holden 60 coupe we’ve just seen

    Pontiac (Canada) G1: rebadged Beat
    Pontiac (Canada) G2: renamed Groove
    Pontiac (Canada) G3: rebadged Aveo
    Pontiac (Canada) G4: rebadged Cobalt
    Pontiac (Canada) G5: renamed Vibe
    Pontiac (Canada) G6: rebadged Daewoo Tosca

    Pontiac lineup waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big. Axe the Groove and Raptor. Axe Tempest coupe.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Saturn Corsa: Gamma; Opel Corsa
    Saturn Meriva: Gamma; Opel Meriva
    Saturn Recon: Gamma; global subcompact Crossover
    Saturn Sky: Gamma; Opel Tigra
    Saturn Astra: Delta; Opel Astra (full lineup)
    Saturn Zafira: Delta; Opel Zafira
    Saturn Arena: Delta; Vue and Antara would use this global moniker
    Saturn Aura: Epsilon; Opel Insignia (Opel would use Aura name)
    Saturn Nimbus: Epsilon 8-seat MPV aimed at Europe; same size as Ford S-Max

    Sky on Gamma as Tigra is wrong. Kill Nimbus.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Buick Allure: Delta compact sedan
    Buick Regal: Epsilon midsizer with Enclave styling
    Buick Lucerne: Lambda fullsizer between Regal & P/A
    Buick Park Avenue: LWB/Wide Zeta sedan with Enclave styling
    Buick Riviera: Zeta; this is the Velite. See RIA section Wildcat
    Buick Terraza: Epsilon SWB 5-seat and LWB 7-seat MPV; similar to Fiat Croma
    Buick Rendezvous: Epsilon SWB "Baby Enclave"
    Buick Enclave
    Lineup is 2x too big. Axe Allure. Axe Terraza and Rendezvous and Lucerne.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Hummer HX: production version of concept
    Hummer H4: Grand Vitara-sized Baby Hummer on SWB Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H3: would use LWB/Wide Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H2: GMT900; shrinks to Tahoe/Yukon size

    Fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    GMC Terrain: Alpha “Unitruck” about the size of current Equinox/Torrent
    GMC Himalaya: Zeta midsize crossover; sold by Holden in Oz
    GMC Yukon: gets totally different sheetmetal from Chev. 122” wheelbase.
    GMC Relay: Alpha “Unitruck” is essentially a supersized RWD Brazilian Montana
    GMC Crewman: Zeta “Unitruck” platform; cross between Avalanche & Holden Ute
    GMC Sierra: as is
    GMC Acadia: Lambda; becomes GM’s sole minivan entry

    Too big. Kill Terrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Saab 9-1: funky little Saab Mini-Cooper-fighter
    Saab 9-2: Delta-sized Saab to compete with Audi A3
    Saab 9-3: Epsilon three-door “hatchwagon” or convertible; Saab’s answer to C30
    Saab 9-4x: Delta compact crossover
    Saab 9-5: current 9-3 would have been introduced as new 9-5
    Saab 9-6x: SWB Lambda crossover
    Saab 9-7: Lambda sport sedan to battle Audi A6

    Disagree with 9-1 and 9-3 and 9-4 and 9-5 and 9-6.
    9-3 and 9-5 is fine as is. 9-1 should be a 3/5 door hatch. 9-4 should be performance ThetaEpsilon. That's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Cadillac ATH: export only; baby Delta Caddy hatchback
    Cadillac BLS: Alpha sport sedan & wagon
    Cadillac BRX: Provoq styling on Alpha platform
    Cadillac BTR: A&S compact roadster
    Cadillac STS: current CTS but a tad bigger and on Zeta
    Cadillac SRX: redesigned Zeta CUV along Provoq lines
    Cadillac ULS: S-class competitor on top-shelf “Omega” platform
    Cadillac XLR: updated
    Cadillac Escalade: GMT800 would be replaced by Zeta “unitruck” model.
    No ATH on Delta. Should be SWB Alpha -- and renamed BLS.
    Fine BLS -- but renamed CTS. Should have coupe and hardtop convertible.
    Fine BRX.
    No BTR.
    Yes STS -- Renamed from CTS. Premium Zeta, exclusive to Caddy only. Should have coupe.
    Yes SRX.
    Yes ULS. Should include coupe -- CL competitor. Renamed DTS.
    Yes XLR.
    Yes Escalade. Premium Zeta, exclusive to Caddy only.
    Revive Fleetwood as Flying Spur, Baby Rolls competitor.
    And if any geriatric types bitch and moan about not being able to afford a DTS at $75,000 base... tough toodles.

  11. #9
    Firebird Concept (the turbine one) t-rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    11,071
    Thanks
    771
    Thanked 421 Times in 226 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 Jaguar XF, 2009 Ford Flex

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post
    Pontiac lineup waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big. Axe the Groove and Raptor. Axe Tempest coupe.
    Groove was part of our "give each dealer a green micro-car" idea. I have GM snapping up Proton in 2003, to use as a low-cost production base for Oz-bound Corsas and Astras, as well as entry to ASEAN. Proton would effectively be rebadged Opels. The Groove would be an ASEAN-aimed product to battle the hugely popular Daihatsu Sirion/Perodua Myvi. In an effort to find potential export markets, I reckoned it'd work as a "baby Vibe". My other option was to send it to "Chevy Heritage" as a "Baby HHR"! Plus I'm partial cuz it's my favourite of the Micro Trio! I also figured a Tempest coupe might snag buyers that Pontiac are trying to get with the G5 coupe!

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro
    Sky on Gamma as Tigra is wrong. Kill Nimbus.
    Well I never had a Kappa Sky in the first place. I'm trying to fit the Euro Opel lineup to North America! I just hate the word "Tigra". You don't think GM could use a big Euro MPV? Renault make a killing off the Grand Espace! I reckon the weak dollar, and Europeans' willingness to pay $45k plus for these type of things, would equate to a hugely profitable model!

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro
    Lineup is 2x too big. Axe Allure. Axe Terraza and Rendezvous and Lucerne.
    Allure's just the next-gen Chinese Excelle. I thought it was coming here anyway! You don't think BPG needs a Vue-sized crossover priced below the BRX? I've got BRX in the mid-to-high $30s. If Terrain's gone, it might leave a gap. If Lucerne's gone, there'll be a huge price gap between the low-$30s Regal and mid-$50's Park Ave. Plus I've got Lucerne chasing the Avalon & co. Terraza probably would have been gone by '09 or '10. I have it introduced back in '04, and it was intended to be a fairly short-run niche product. Plus I gotta get rid of it to make room for Traverse assembly at Hamtramck!


    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro
    Disagree with 9-1 and 9-3 and 9-4 and 9-5 and 9-6.
    9-3 and 9-5 is fine as is. 9-1 should be a 3/5 door hatch. 9-4 should be performance ThetaEpsilon. That's it.
    I stand by my lineup!!! Not sure what you mean by "performance ThetaEpsilon". That's pretty much what my 9-4x is! Also we were trying hard to make sure each brand had a spankin' new product every model year from 2003 on.

    I envision something like this...

    9-1, small, Ka-sized


    9-2, bigger, A3-sized


    9-3, not exactly this, but something coupehatchvanlike and weird!


    9-4x


    9-6x (or the one from RIA!)


    9-7 (thanks Fbodyrules!)





    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro
    No ATH on Delta. Should be SWB Alpha -- and renamed BLS.
    Fine BLS -- but renamed CTS. Should have coupe and hardtop convertible.
    Fine BRX.
    No BTR.
    Yes STS -- Renamed from CTS. Premium Zeta, exclusive to Caddy only. Should have coupe.
    Yes SRX.
    Yes ULS. Should include coupe -- CL competitor. Renamed DTS.
    Yes XLR.
    Yes Escalade. Premium Zeta, exclusive to Caddy only.
    Revive Fleetwood as Flying Spur, Baby Rolls competitor.
    And if any geriatric types bitch and moan about not being able to afford a DTS at $75,000 base... tough toodles.
    Damn you, mgescuro! I got that gdamn ATH idea from one of YOUR lineups! The ATH Delta was a compromise, based on production. The Wilmington plant was already squeezed, and there was crapload of capacity at Doraville, our other Delta export plant (mainly Zafiras to Brazil). But I like your ATH/BLS idea. I might have to try to some reshuffling! I also hate the "B" designations. Sounds like a Volvo engine. But I can't see calling the BRX a "CRX". Maybe I'm too hung up on uniformity! I REALLY dig your "Fleetwood". Plus it gives me a model to put in at the Lansing Craft Centre (I hate closing assembly plants). It could use the new "Omega" platform (Caddy only, in deference to you!) as a basis. Nichts on the DTS name though. Anything remotely related to the DeVille has got to go!

    Last edited by t-rex; 03-04-2008 at 09:57 PM.

  12. #10
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,044
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    I do not like it, especially what you did to Pontiac

  13. #11
    4.6 Liter Northstar V8 tama z71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    1,546
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    i dont like it. i dont like these lineups. i dont like checking the rss feed to find 6 of these damned hypothetical lineups at one time. its the great gmi epidemic. stop it. knock it off. all of you

  14. #12
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid mgescuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    43,524
    Thanks
    3,961
    Thanked 2,102 Times in 2,120 Posts
    My Ride
    E350, 9-5 Aero

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Groove was part of our "give each dealer a green micro-car" idea. I have GM snapping up Proton in 2003, to use as a low-cost production base for Oz-bound Corsas and Astras, as well as entry to ASEAN. Proton would effectively be rebadged Opels.
    No. Not every dealer needs a microcar.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Well I never had a Kappa Sky in the first place. I'm trying to fit the Euro Opel lineup to North America!

    You need a Sky. Opel sells the Sky. It fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    You don't think GM could use a big Euro MPV? Renault make a killing off the Grand Espace! I reckon the weak dollar, and Europeans' willingness to pay $45k plus for these type of things, would equate to a hugely profitable model!

    I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Allure's just the next-gen Chinese Excelle. I thought it was coming here anyway!
    I don't beleive Excelle should be sold in the US.
    Anything beyond -- Regal/Park Avenue/Riviera/Enclave -- is overkill for Buick in the US.


    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    You don't think BPG needs a Vue-sized crossover priced below the BRX?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    If Lucerne's gone, there'll be a huge price gap between the low-$30s Regal and mid-$50's Park Ave.
    You don't need a Lucerne if you have the Park Avenue. I don't believe Buick could ever sell a car over $50,000.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    I stand by my lineup!!! Not sure what you mean by "performance ThetaEpsilon". That's pretty much what my 9-4x is! Also we were trying hard to make sure each brand had a spankin' new product every model year from 2003 on.
    Performance Epsilon... stiffer platform, lowered, Re-Axs.... more differentiated than standard ThetaEps

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    Damn you, mgescuro! I got that gdamn ATH idea from one of YOUR lineups! The ATH Delta was a compromise, based on production. The Wilmington plant was already squeezed, and there was crapload of capacity at Doraville, our other Delta export plant (mainly Zafiras to Brazil). But I like your ATH/BLS idea. I might have to try to some reshuffling! I also hate the "B" designations. Sounds like a Volvo engine. But I can't see calling the BRX a "CRX". Maybe I'm too hung up on uniformity! I REALLY dig your "Fleetwood". Plus it gives me a model to put in at the Lansing Craft Centre (I hate closing assembly plants). It could use the new "Omega" platform (Caddy only, in deference to you!) as a basis. Nichts on the DTS name though. Anything remotely related to the DeVille has got to go!
    ATH is fine. I don't want it on Delta. Put it on Alpha SWB and as a hatch. It should be fine.

    Fleetwood yes. It's traditionally been the Flagship of Cadillac since the 1920's. Then Taken over by DeVille and finally Seville.
    Fleetwood would only work with a marketing campaign to transform the perception of the name "Fleetwood."

    DeVille is a good name. 12-13 generations worth of DeVilles fill Cadillac's history. I always thought it was funny that Sedan deVille was essentially "Town Car." Anyhoo.... I say DTS only to perpetuate the name -- and the Deville line. It's heritage. And it essentially realigns the traditional Cadillac lineup. 1) Fleetwood, 2) Deville, 3) Seville.

  15. #13
    2b2
    2b2 is offline
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 2b2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    NNW of Atlantis
    Posts
    5,986
    Thanks
    3,496
    Thanked 483 Times in 360 Posts

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    It's amazing, T-rex!
    especially once you got into explaining
    &
    since I don't have GM's platforms down-pat...
    if you do a webpage, could it include a chart? (I <3 charts)
    with size estimates, wlb/ovls?
    &
    would you consider a consulting position on a nother speculative lineup (masquerading as a collaborative novel) elsewhere?
    &
    the best part:
    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    ...My wife contributed heavily to much of this lineup...
    hope you know how lucky you are
    Last edited by 2b2; 03-05-2008 at 01:34 AM.
    re: EV styling
    "...like a bunch of 1960's Citroen designers would do given LSD and a room full of Pokemon....in a good sort of way"
    Hidden Content best fanboy def Ever
    " 4: Oh. My. God!!! My favorite shade of white!!!!! "

  16. #14
    Banned Butz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Celestial North Korea
    Posts
    11,892
    Thanks
    2,802
    Thanked 1,596 Times in 965 Posts
    My Ride
    です

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    I like your list but there is too much overlap. I've edited the list a little bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post

    Chevrolet Beat: Gamma 3dr hatch
    Chevrolet Aveo: Gamma 4dr sedan & 5dr hatch
    Chevrolet Cobalt: Delta 4dr sedan & 2dr coupe
    Chevrolet Volt: Delta
    Chevrolet Malibu: Epsilon LWB
    Chevrolet Monte Carlo: Epsilon SWB coupe
    Chevrolet Captiva: Delta Crossover
    Chevrolet Dune: production version of Daewoo T2X concept
    Chevrolet Tahoe: Lambda crossover
    Chevrolet Suburban: GMT900 SWB (current Tahoe)
    Chevrolet Suburban EXT: GMT900 LWB
    Chevrolet Colorado: Brazilian-developed next-gen model
    Chevrolet Silverado: uses Avalanche/Suburban styling; 1500 & 1500HD only
    Chevrolet Cheyenne: current Silverado; 2500 & 3500 only
    Chevrolet Movano: global fullsize van
    Chevrolet HHR: as is
    Chevrolet Camaro
    Chevrolet Corvette

    Pontiac Vibe: moves to Delta
    Pontiac Tempest: Alpha coupe and sedan; same as Aussie Holden Torana
    Pontiac Grand Prix: the G8 (I hate alphanumeric names)
    Pontiac Solstice
    Pontiac GTO: Holden 60 coupe we’ve just seen

    Saturn Corsa: Gamma; Opel Corsa
    Saturn Meriva: Gamma; Opel Meriva
    Saturn Recon: Gamma; global subcompact Crossover
    Saturn Sky: Kappa;
    Saturn Astra: Delta; Opel Astra (full lineup)
    Saturn Zafira: Delta; Opel Zafira
    Saturn Arena: Delta; Vue and Antara would use this global moniker
    Saturn Aura: Epsilon; Opel Insignia (Opel would use Aura name)

    Buick Regal: Epsilon midsizer with Enclave styling
    Buick Park Avenue: LWB/Wide Zeta sedan with Enclave styling
    Buick Riviera: Zeta; this is the Velite. See RIA section Wildcat
    Buick Rendezvous: Epsilon SWB "Baby Enclave"
    Buick Enclave


    Hummer H4: Grand Vitara-sized Baby Hummer on SWB Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H3: would use LWB/Wide Alpha “Unitruck”
    Hummer H2: GMT900; shrinks to Tahoe/Yukon size


    GMC Yukon: gets totally different sheetmetal from Chev. 122” wheelbase.
    GMC Relay: Alpha “Unitruck” is essentially a supersized RWD Brazilian Montana
    GMC Crewman: Zeta “Unitruck” platform; cross between Avalanche & Holden Ute
    GMC Sierra: as is
    GMC Acadia: Lambda; becomes GM’s sole minivan entry

    Saab 9-2: Delta-sized Saab to compete with Audi A3
    Saab 9-3: Epsilon three-door “hatchwagon” or convertible; Saab’s answer to C30
    Saab 9-4x: Delta compact crossover
    Saab 9-5: current 9-3 would have been introduced as new 9-5
    Saab 9-7: Lambda sport sedan to battle Audi A6

    Cadillac BLS: Alpha sport sedan & wagon
    Cadillac BRX: Provoq styling on Alpha platform
    Cadillac BTR: A&S compact roadster
    Cadillac STS: current CTS but a tad bigger and on Zeta
    Cadillac SRX: redesigned Zeta CUV along Provoq lines
    Cadillac ULS: S-class competitor on top-shelf “Omega” platform
    Cadillac XLR: updated
    Cadillac Escalade: GMT800 would be replaced by Zeta “unitruck” model.

    P.S. MANY of these ideas were inspired by the countless suggestions posted here on GMI...
    I"m not sure how much cars I dropped. but I tried to remove any possible overlap. I'm sure there is still some.

  17. #15
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 BrickTamland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Waterville, OH
    Posts
    6,957
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: T-Rex's "GM 2010" lineup

    Wow, you gave them a lineup more massive than in 1980 (relative to the existing 1980 divisions, of course).

    That is an impressive effort.

    I would agree that Buick does need the Lucerne. They need a fullsize car between the midsize Regal and upscale fullsize Park Avenue.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own.
    Current: Galaxy Gray 2007 Mazda 3 s Grand Touring
    Former: Super Black 2003 Nissan Maxima SE
    Brilliant Blue Metallic 1995 Ford Explorer XLT 4WD

  18. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2